Help settle this job argument.

[steph96]

I'm sure you guys are tired of hearing about this by now... My husband works in the oilfield. They have laid off most of the company. I have a feeling that my husband will be next. He has no college degree and his only experience is in the oilfield. Unless he finds some unicorn of a job, he will likely be taking a $50k pay cut. It will be really tight budget wise. Like super tight.

I'm pushing for him to start looking for jobs now. It can take a long time to find a new job. When he was laid off of his first job, it took him 4 months to even find a crappy delivery job. He still kept looking for better jobs. It took 6 additional months to find his current job. With so many other oilfield people being laid off, I think it won't be easy to find a decent job.

He wants to stay at his job until he gets laid off. There is no severance package. He argues that there is no reason to take a huge pay cut until we absolutely have to. He says that there is another office that has had zero jobs for a few months now. They have laid off all of the employees except for the manager and assistant manager (his title). His office has only lost 80% of their jobs so far. They have laid off 2/3 of the employees. I can't see his company paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to just have all these management people sitting in offices doing nothing.

Tell me what you think the best option would be. I know I can't force my husband to find a new job now. Is there any way to talk some sense into him?

[tacosforlife]

He should start looking now. While employed he's in a better position to negotiate for better pay or to pass on something he doesn't like. If he's unemployed, he will feel pressure to take the first thing that comes along.

He can always say no. Not looking when you have reason to believe a no-severance layoff is coming is so collossally stupid that I have trouble wrapping my head around it.

[cheezer]

He should definitely start now. A hiring process can take a long time at some companies. If nothing else he should be doing tons of research and making lists.

[Deleted]

Apr 1, 2015 10:33:57 GMT -5 tacosforlife said:

He should start looking now. While employed he's in a better position to negotiate for better pay or to pass on something he doesn't like. If he's unemployed, he will feel pressure to take the first thing that comes along.

He can always say no. Not looking when you have reason to believe a no-severance layoff is coming is so collossally stupid that I have trouble wrapping my head around it.

This is my thought.  It doesn't hurt to apply and if a job offer comes in and he doesn't want or need it he can say no.  This seems like pretty simple logic to me.

[steph96]

I'm glad that so far you guys are siding with me!

Does anyone have any tips on how to convince him that he needs to start looking now? I have already tried the whole "remember how long it takes to find a job and go thru the hiring process" approach. He responded by saying that we can't afford to take the pay cut and that he thinks it will be easier to find a job this time around since we are in a wayyy bigger city now.

[crashgizmo]

Looking for a new job does not equal taking a new job.

A complete job loss with no income and no prospects is worse than a pay cut.

Rinse and repeat.

I'm sorry you're going through this!

[ESF]

Apr 1, 2015 11:06:29 GMT -5 steph96 said:

I'm glad that so far you guys are siding with me!

Does anyone have any tips on how to convince him that he needs to start looking now? I have already tried the whole "remember how long it takes to find a job and go thru the hiring process" approach. He responded by saying that we can't afford to take the pay cut and that he thinks it will be easier to find a job this time around since we are in a wayyy bigger city now.

I think you remind him that it's going to be much easier to find a job while employed.  

And in the end, it may very well be a net positive. Because even if he prematurely takes a pay cut, in the long run, he will not have the loss of income from weeks or months of unemployment.  And, he will likely command higher pay if job searching while employed on a high income than job searching while unemployed.

There are tons of articles about prejudices of employers in hiring the unemployed and the lower salaries those people are offered. Look around online and show him those.

If that still doesn't work, I'd run the numbers on a bunch of hypotheticals. . For example, say he gets laid off on July 31, and it takes three months to find a job paying $50k less. Compare that scenario to one in which he looks for a job now, and takes a $40k pay cut starting on June 1.   I think when he actually compares the various scenarios, he'll realize he's being completely ridiculous.

[Velvetshady]

Make job hunting a "couple's night" activity?

[noodleoo]

Maybe start by just having him get his resume updated and ready to go? Job hunting sucks, so maybe he's just overwhelmed by the process (I know I was last time I did it). So break it up into steps. Set aside some time to update his resume together. Once it looks good, maybe start brainstorming what jobs he wants to look into. THen he can start looking at job postings just to get an idea of what companies are hiring, what types of jobs he wants.

If he gets fully prepared it is an easier step to start applying "just to see". And at the very least he'll be super prepared if he gets laid off sooner than he expects.

[Pom]

Mr. P is O&G and we talk potential job loss pretty frequently. His company has been pretty closed mouthed about lay-offs, but when he has meetings at his main office, he is quite aware that people are fewer in the cube factory.

Being proactive is the only sane thing to do in an industry down-turn. I wouldn't encourage him to leave before he is laid off, but preparing and starting a job search is the only way to help yourself.

-We just updated Mr.P's resume to reflect his recent projects, title change
-Update Linked-in profile
-Check out positions on Rigzone and any other oil and gas job websites with relevant jobs/experience
-Network with (eta) past co-workers and industry contacts about any new positions they have found....in my H's corner of the oilfield, they travel in packs, like a band of gypsies. Groups move from employer to employer. Be ready when things turn around.
-Not sure how high up your H's position is, but reaching out to headhunters that have been in touch in the past. We've kept a file of the interest and contacts.

Downturns are paralyzing, but that is part of O&G. Please feel free to PM me anytime.

[steph96]

Apr 1, 2015 11:24:35 GMT -5 ESF said:

Apr 1, 2015 11:06:29 GMT -5 steph96 said:

I'm glad that so far you guys are siding with me!

Does anyone have any tips on how to convince him that he needs to start looking now? I have already tried the whole "remember how long it takes to find a job and go thru the hiring process" approach. He responded by saying that we can't afford to take the pay cut and that he thinks it will be easier to find a job this time around since we are in a wayyy bigger city now.

I think you remind him that it's going to be much easier to find a job while employed.  

And in the end, it may very well be a net positive. Because even if he prematurely takes a pay cut, in the long run, he will not have the loss of income from weeks or months of unemployment.  And, he will likely command higher pay if job searching while employed on a high income than job searching while unemployed.

There are tons of articles about prejudices of employers in hiring the unemployed and the lower salaries those people are offered. Look around online and show him those.

If that still doesn't work, I'd run the numbers on a bunch of hypotheticals. . For example, say he gets laid off on July 31, and it takes three months to find a job paying $50k less. Compare that scenario to one in which he looks for a job now, and takes a $40k pay cut starting on June 1.   I think when he actually compares the various scenarios, he'll realize he's being completely ridiculous.

That is great advice!

[steph96]

I really don't want you guys to think that I'm married to some lazy loser. He has been dealing with depression and this whole job situation has been a huge blow to his ego. I completely understand why he's acting the way he is. He had worked so hard to get to where he is now and doesn't want to make us struggle.

[konapoppy]

Apr 1, 2015 11:25:58 GMT -5 Velvetshady said:

Make job hunting a "couple's night" activity?

This. I have done this with H and it has been successful. Good luck!

[ECB]

Apr 1, 2015 11:19:28 GMT -5 crashgizmo said:

Looking for a new job does not equal taking a new job.

Lots of great advice, but 100% ditto this.  AND to add to is - looking for a new job does not equal GETTING a new job, much less taking it.

[steph96]

Pom I'm curious as to why you wouldn't encourage him to leave before he is laid off. My husband's friend (a directional driller) also says the same thing. i just don't feel like his current job will open any doors for him. He didn't gain any marketable skills (other than management experience). The manager of one of his competitors that went out of business is now the manager of either Braum's or Dollar General.

[steph96]

Apr 1, 2015 11:48:16 GMT -5 konapoppy said:

Apr 1, 2015 11:25:58 GMT -5 Velvetshady said:

Make job hunting a "couple's night" activity?

This. I have done this with H and it has been successful. Good luck!

We can both search for jobs together!

[tacosforlife]

1) Saying that you can't afford to take a pay cut is a cop out. Until he has an offer in hand, he has no idea that any and every job he would get would be a pay cut. My H is currently job searching. Some jobs would likely offer less than he previously made. Some may offer more. You don't know if you don't apply.

2) If you can't afford to take a pay cut and he is convinced he will HAVE to take a pay cut, then what is his plan for potentially being unemployed for 6 months and then getting a job that pays less?

3) Again, he can be pickier if he is lookingf while employed. An offer is too low? Management seems sucky? He doesn't have to take it. That calculus changes DRAMATICALLY when you don't have a job.

4) Feel free to tell him the story of my H. He has a PhD and great experience. He found out Jan. 5 that he would be getting laid off, and he started applying to lots of jobs. Laid off effective Feb. 1. So he's at 2 months without a job, 3 months since the notice. He has sent out over 100 applications. He has had a lot of interest, but no solid offers just yet. I think he's going to get something very very soon, but by the time everything gets worked out, I expect he won't start mich before May 1. So that would be 3 months out of work despite starting the job search a month before his layoff.

My armchair psychologist opinion is that he's scared and is letting fear paralyze him. Fear is understandable, but he needs to work past it.

And my advice to you is not to discount the management skills your H has acquired at his current job. A combo of technical and management skills can be very valuable.

[Pom]

steph96

Based on your update, I would absolutely encourage him to look for another job and leave as soon as possible.  I was assuming he might have a specific set of field skills that are primarily O&G. Sometimes workers with specialized oilfield training/experience get special consideration (cut backs rather than lay-offs).  

Working for a service/support company is a different thing.  I am glad to know his management skill set is more broad-based and very transferable to other industries.  Wishing a quick transition for Mr. 96.
 

[v]

Apr 1, 2015 12:22:40 GMT -5 tacosforlife said:

1) Saying that you can't afford to take a pay cut is a cop out. Until he has an offer in hand, he has no idea that any and every job he would get would be a pay cut. My H is currently job searching. Some jobs would likely offer less than he previously made. Some may offer more. You don't know if you don't apply.

2) If you can't afford to take a pay cut and he is convinced he will HAVE to take a pay cut, then what is his plan for potentially being unemployed for 6 months and then getting a job that pays less?

3) Again, he can be pickier if he is lookingf while employed. An offer is too low? Management seems sucky? He doesn't have to take it. That calculus changes DRAMATICALLY when you don't have a job.

4) Feel free to tell him the story of my H. He has a PhD and great experience. He found out Jan. 5 that he would be getting laid off, and he started applying to lots of jobs. Laid off effective Feb. 1. So he's at 2 months without a job, 3 months since the notice. He has sent out over 100 applications. He has had a lot of interest, but no solid offers just yet. I think he's going to get something very very soon, but by the time everything gets worked out, I expect he won't start mich before May 1. So that would be 3 months out of work despite starting the job search a month before his layoff.

My armchair psychologist opinion is that he's scared and is letting fear paralyze him. Fear is understandable, but he needs to work past it.

And my advice to you is not to discount the management skills your H has acquired at his current job. A combo of technical and management skills can be very valuable.

This could not be more right.

I'd also add that if he is cut as part of a large layoff, there will suddenly be a bunch of people from his company flooding the market with resumes.  He might as well get ahead of the competition.

Since I'm sure he's paralyzed by fear, you may want to sell it as a what do you have to lose by figuring out what the market around here is for people like you right now?/might as well start reaching out to your network to reconnect. 

[explorer2001]

Tell him that any positions in the area that are decent will be getting filled by all the other laid off guys in the industry. If his industry is a larger employer in the area that means more competition for every available job, plus any job he misses for not applying while still employed will be filled and gone by the time he gets around to applying. Often the most talented people retained until later in the process have the hardest time finding anotherlocal job bbecause companies hire the good enough guy who was already laid off and available for less filling all their needs.

This is basically what happened with my dad years ago. PM me if you want the more detailed story.

[steph96]

tacosforlife thank you for the response! I really think you've hit all the nails on the head! You should consider being a job coach on the side ;-)

[Deleted]

Apr 1, 2015 11:06:29 GMT -5 steph96 said:

I'm glad that so far you guys are siding with me!

Does anyone have any tips on how to convince him that he needs to start looking now? I have already tried the whole "remember how long it takes to find a job and go thru the hiring process" approach. He responded by saying that we can't afford to take the pay cut and that he thinks it will be easier to find a job this time around since we are in a wayyy bigger city now.

At the very least he should spend time now updating his resume and creating a job search strategy (companies he would like to work for, types of jobs, contacts to network with). I'd also have him list out all of his skills (hard and soft skills) and identify the ones that would transfer to other industries/different types of positions.

Also for each of those skills, examples that prove he has them and accomplishments connected to them. So for this he would likely want his year end reviews for the last few years, any recognition he's received from others.

All of this takes time and if he is laid off it will really be helpful then so he can pick right up and focus on the actual networking and job hunting.

And it might be good to pick up the networking now, start talking to his contacts, make sure he has updated contact information for all of them, reach out before he actually needs their help.  And he may hear of something just as good or better that is worth applying for.

I was laid off from O&G a couple of weeks ago, getting myself organized to apply is actually a lot more work than I had expected and I do wish I had done more in the weeks leading up to the layoff (it was one of the mass "reorgs").  It's been so long since I have done a job search, a lot has changed and I thought I was ready but was probably only at 25%

Let me know if you have any specific questions or want me to expand on anything.  I've found askamanager.org to be a really great resource (someone here shared it - thank you to them)

[starryfish]

Apr 1, 2015 10:27:12 GMT -5 steph96 said:

I'm sure you guys are tired of hearing about this by now... My husband works in the oilfield. They have laid off most of the company. I have a feeling that my husband will be next. He has no college degree and his only experience is in the oilfield. Unless he finds some unicorn of a job, he will likely be taking a $50k pay cut. It will be really tight budget wise. Like super tight.

I'm pushing for him to start looking for jobs now. It can take a long time to find a new job. When he was laid off of his first job, it took him 4 months to even find a crappy delivery job. He still kept looking for better jobs. It took 6 additional months to find his current job. With so many other oilfield people being laid off, I think it won't be easy to find a decent job.

He wants to stay at his job until he gets laid off. There is no severance package. He argues that there is no reason to take a huge pay cut until we absolutely have to. He says that there is another office that has had zero jobs for a few months now. They have laid off all of the employees except for the manager and assistant manager (his title). His office has only lost 80% of their jobs so far. They have laid off 2/3 of the employees. I can't see his company paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to just have all these management people sitting in offices doing nothing.

Tell me what you think the best option would be. I know I can't force my husband to find a new job now. Is there any way to talk some sense into him?

Are you by chance in Houston? (I can delete if needed). If so, the job market is BAD here with so many laid off. I would have him looking now, because it might take a while. You can always say no. Plus, sometimes it takes several weeks or longer for a job to even be offered. 

[steph96]

@randomcdn I'm sorry to hear about your job loss. I hope you find something really soon!

starryfish I'm not in Houston. I'm hoping that the job market here is still pretty good. The community around us has been growing, so in hoping it will provide more jobs for everyone that is losing their jobs.

[Deleted]

Apr 1, 2015 14:42:37 GMT -5 steph96 said:

@randomcdn I'm sorry to hear about your job loss. I hope you find something really soon!

starryfish I'm not in Houston. I'm hoping that the job market here is still pretty good. The community around us has been growing, so in hoping it will provide more jobs for everyone that is losing their jobs.

Thanks, I actually am fine. First, husband is in a different industry (thank god, I know of people who both lost their jobs with different companies) and it seems stable. Second, I had been expecting this was a possibility since late last year so we'd started trimming our budget and saving extra and doing some of the stuff I suggested above (the rest has come from the placement agency I'm working with)

Also, I've been in the industry for quite awhile and this isn't my first downturn so we've purposely lived with lots of room for cutting back in our budget and kept our fixed expenses as low as possible.  I would probably suggest you start doing some of the same and thinking of ways you could boost your income (or start earning one?) without knowing anything about your situation.  It can't hurt. 

If you both just spent an hour a night focusing on how to get ready to job hunt you might find it worthwhile.  and it might help him focus if you do it too.

And as someone who has spent a lot of years in this industry - he might find it helpful even if he isn't laid off.  Because this will not be the last downturn with mass layoffs.  It's going to happen again, it always does.  The only thing that seems to be changing is the recoveries are slower, and the highs seem to be less lucrative.  So from a long term perspective, if he survives this, he should probably have a long term career plan to start building his skills/education so he can jump industries if needed and be in the position to more easily get a comparable (or better) job offer. And if he's there for the upswing he can work those into his goals and development plans and have his company pay for whatever training/courses he decides to pursue. 

[Deleted]

Short version, my only regret is I didn't have some of these lists/strategies already laid out so it would have been easier to update my resume and hit the ground running. I have things in pieces in various places (i.e. my performance reviews, some in email and some saved on a flash drive or my hard drive - it would have been easier if I had kept a running list of skills with the accomplishments saved underneath in one document)

And I should have spent more time early in the year listing companies I'd like to work for and who would hire someone with my skill set - in and out of oil and gas. And why, and who I know there, and what they call the role (to help with search engines)

Depending when he was last job hunting - resume formats and cover letter expectations / recommendations have changed. LinkedIn profiles are important. Those are things you should always have ready, but if you have a running list or two somewhere - even if it's in Excel if you prefer working there - it would make pulling those together much easier if you need them.

[Deleted]

Tomorrow is the 9 month anniversary of my layoff. I just started my new job 2 days ago. It can take a long time and his ego is only going to take more of a hit when he actually loses his job.

I think others have already covered advice, so good luck!

[steph96]

@randomcdn OMG thank you so much for all of the advice! I'm making a list of things to suggest to him!

[steph96]

Apr 1, 2015 16:39:47 GMT -5 @buckybells said:

Tomorrow is the 9 month anniversary of my layoff. I just started my new job 2 days ago. It can take a long time and his ego is only going to take more of a hit when he actually loses his job.

I think others have already covered advice, so good luck!

That is a really good point!

[lys]

Another thing to be doing now while he is still employed with a good salary - SAVE as much as possible NOW.