I hate bedtime

[nursewife]

The twins share a room since we have a tiny house. DD is awful at going to bed. She is currently screaming, standing at the babygate. This has been going on for a half hour. I put DS is my bed since sometimes it helps if they are separated. They get read a book, teeth brushed, the usual bedtime routine. DS is better at bed. Can get upset, but usually he is pretty chill and will settle with a hug and kiss. Any tips for DD? This has been going on for a while, and I hate it. I seriously can't stand the screaming some nights. They are 3. Tips would be much appreciated.

[nursewife]

Anyone? It's 10:15 and they have daycare in the morning. I want to cry. I dread bedtime with her every day. The top of the lung screaming is just too much.

[Patsy Stone]

Sorry I don't have any advice because I also dread bedtime. Just here to offer support. ::hugs::

[Monica Geller]

I have no advice. I'm sorry though.

[nursewife]

Apr 1, 2015 21:14:52 GMT -5 Patsy Stone said:

Sorry I don't have any advice because I also dread bedtime. Just here to offer support. ::hugs::

I hate this. I'm tempted to just put her in my bed and be done with it since that is what she wants.   I would do anything for a peaceful evening without screaming.

[revolution]

My 3 year old sucks at bedtime. He just does. I put a baby gate on his room and he plays from 7:30 until about 9 when I am tired and then I will go in and cuddle him for a few minutes and then he goes into his bed. I usually stay beside him until he falls asleep. The last part I don't recommend. I just gave up after about 6 months of putting him back in his bed and the constant screaming.

So really. I would vote to rock her at this point in time. Everyone needs sleep.

[nursewife]

Apr 1, 2015 21:24:36 GMT -5 @smace said:

drugs? for her or you, doesn't matter.

I have plenty for me! I take my clonazepam because an hour of nonstop screaming gives me anxiety. I so wish moving to a larger house was in the cards for us right now. I think having her own room would help a bit.

[penguingrrl]

Does she still nap? An inability to fall asleep at a reasonable hour (i.e. before midnight to 1 am) was the sign with both of my older kids that they needed to stop napping at all costs. It was like a light switch went off one day with each where instead of sleeping 7:30-7:30 with a 1-3 hour nap they would fall asleep at 12-1, still wake up at 7:30, take a 1-2 hour nap and be an overtired, cranky mess all the time because they suddenly were getting less overall sleep. Once I stopped letting them nap (and it took work to keep them awake) bedtime was smooth again. If they got so much as a 5 minute car nap they were a nightmare and the transition wasn't easy, but once we got over the first few days life was so much better. I know a few people who got daycare to work with them on that exact issue and would let their kid sit and read or whatever at nap time. You might want to try that if she's still sleeping. Both were under 3 when it happened (one was 2y9m, the other was 2y1m).

Also, my younger two were never amenable to being put to bed and staying there to go to sleep. DH or I had to sit with them while they fell asleep. The older of the two was about 4.5 when that stopped, mostly because H was on a business trip and I was alone with all three and had to nurse the baby to sleep. But now she goes in, reads to herself for a bit and goes to bed.

[nursewife]

Apr 1, 2015 21:20:00 GMT -5 revolution said:

My 3 year old sucks at bedtime. He just does. I put a baby gate on his room and he plays from 7:30 until about 9 when I am tired and then I will go in and cuddle him for a few minutes and then he goes into his bed. I usually stay beside him until he falls asleep. The last part I don't recommend. I just gave up after about 6 months of putting him back in his bed and the constant screaming.

So really. I would vote to rock her at this point in time. Everyone needs sleep.

The only thing that really calms her down, is putting her in our bed. Doing that makes sleep impossible for us. Since we both need to sleep on a good mattress, one of us going to the couch isn't the greatest option. Currently DS is sleeping in my bed because I needed to get him away from the screaming so he could sleep, but that just makes her more upset and jealous. Argh. I need a stiff drink.

[nursewife]

Apr 1, 2015 21:28:49 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

Does she still nap? An inability to fall asleep at a reasonable hour (i.e. before midnight to 1 am) was the sign with both of my older kids that they needed to stop napping at all costs. It was like a light switch went off one day with each where instead of sleeping 7:30-7:30 with a 1-3 hour nap they would fall asleep at 12-1, still wake up at 7:30, take a 1-2 hour nap and be an overtired, cranky mess all the time because they suddenly were getting less overall sleep. Once I stopped letting them nap (and it took work to keep them awake) bedtime was smooth again. If they got so much as a 5 minute car nap they were a nightmare and the transition wasn't easy, but once we got over the first few days life was so much better. I know a few people who got daycare to work with them on that exact issue and would let their kid sit and read or whatever at nap time. You might want to try that if she's still sleeping. Both were under 3 when it happened (one was 2y9m, the other was 2y1m).

Also, my younger two were never amenable to being put to bed and staying there to go to sleep. DH or I had to sit with them while they fell asleep. The older of the two was about 4.5 when that stopped, mostly because H was on a business trip and I was alone with all three and had to nurse the baby to sleep. But now she goes in, reads to herself for a bit and goes to bed.

This sometimes work. Today I let them nap for an hour (DD has an ear infection and needed the rest), and they were both so grouchy when I woke them up. When they go to daycare, they all get a nap regardless unfortunately. When I don't let them nap, they often fall asleep at supper time. I hate this stage, so, so much.

[penguingrrl]

Apr 1, 2015 21:33:22 GMT -5 nursewife said:

Apr 1, 2015 21:28:49 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

Does she still nap? An inability to fall asleep at a reasonable hour (i.e. before midnight to 1 am) was the sign with both of my older kids that they needed to stop napping at all costs. It was like a light switch went off one day with each where instead of sleeping 7:30-7:30 with a 1-3 hour nap they would fall asleep at 12-1, still wake up at 7:30, take a 1-2 hour nap and be an overtired, cranky mess all the time because they suddenly were getting less overall sleep. Once I stopped letting them nap (and it took work to keep them awake) bedtime was smooth again. If they got so much as a 5 minute car nap they were a nightmare and the transition wasn't easy, but once we got over the first few days life was so much better. I know a few people who got daycare to work with them on that exact issue and would let their kid sit and read or whatever at nap time. You might want to try that if she's still sleeping. Both were under 3 when it happened (one was 2y9m, the other was 2y1m).

Also, my younger two were never amenable to being put to bed and staying there to go to sleep. DH or I had to sit with them while they fell asleep. The older of the two was about 4.5 when that stopped, mostly because H was on a business trip and I was alone with all three and had to nurse the baby to sleep. But now she goes in, reads to herself for a bit and goes to bed.

This sometimes work. Today I let them nap for an hour (DD has an ear infection and needed the rest), and they were both so grouchy when I woke them up. When they go to daycare, they all get a nap regardless unfortunately. When I don't let them nap, they often fall asleep at supper time. I hate this stage, so, so much.

Yes, those were the days I would make them stay in the kitchen with me and have a dance party while I cooked because otherwise they would fall asleep while playing. We had to power through a lot of cranky evenings while they adjusted to not napping. But it does sound like they're probably ready to give up the nap and that's why she isn't falling asleep . Like I said, I did have a few friends whose daycare would work with them to keep the kid awake knowing that it was becoming a problem. My girls would easily and happily fall asleep at nap time since they were completely exhausted, but that would just keep the horrible cycle going.

I will say that once they were on a no nap schedule for a little while they stopped being total crankpots at night!

[penguingrrl]

And I don't envy you this stage. I am not looking forward to going through it a third time!

[Deleted]

Melatonin.

ETa: sorry didn't mean to send.

We give DD melatonin when she's having a hard time. Target sells a Zarbees version. The first night I was fed up just like you are right now and I went to target to get it at like 9pm.

[nursewife]

Apr 1, 2015 21:41:14 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

Apr 1, 2015 21:33:22 GMT -5 nursewife said:

This sometimes work. Today I let them nap for an hour (DD has an ear infection and needed the rest), and they were both so grouchy when I woke them up. When they go to daycare, they all get a nap regardless unfortunately. When I don't let them nap, they often fall asleep at supper time. I hate this stage, so, so much.

Yes, those were the days I would make them stay in the kitchen with me and have a dance party while I cooked because otherwise they would fall asleep while playing. We had to power through a lot of cranky evenings while they adjusted to not napping. But it does sound like they're probably ready to give up the nap and that's why she isn't falling asleep . Like I said, I did have a few friends whose daycare would work with them to keep the kid awake knowing that it was becoming a problem. My girls would easily and happily fall asleep at nap time since they were completely exhausted, but that would just keep the horrible cycle going.

I will say that once they were on a no nap schedule for a little while they stopped being total crankpots at night!

When I drop them off tomorrow, I'll ask about keeping them up at naptime. This stage sucks so much. I hate dealing with the afternoon grouchiness from no naps, but hate this even more. It sucks since DS is pretty good at not freaking out even if he naps. I feel like such a shit mom. She's sleeping, but I can still hear her sniffles from crying for so long.

[meganew]

We very slowly worked Ollie from needing to be patted to sleep to just given a kiss before leaving his room, but once Viv was born that all went to shit. He was a terrible sleeper for about a month and needed one of us to sleep with him at all times.

Suesue recommended bribery and it totally worked. He got a sticker for every night he stayed in his big boy bed, then when he got 5 stickers he could pick out a new toy. After a few weeks he didn't need the stickers anymore and it just became routine.

Good luck and big hugs, sleep issues are the ducking worst.

[nursewife]

Apr 1, 2015 21:43:47 GMT -5 ladybug said:

Melatonin.

ETa: sorry didn't mean to send.

We give DD melatonin when she's having a hard time. Target sells a Zarbees version. The first night I was fed up just like you are right now and I went to target to get it at like 9pm.

I didn't know it was available in a kids formula. I'll have to check this out tomorrow. I've tried benedryl on some of the really bad nights (I feel awful doing that) but it didn't seem to do too much. I would LOVE if melatonin works.

[nursewife]

Apr 1, 2015 21:46:06 GMT -5 meganew said:

We very slowly worked Ollie from needing to be patted to sleep to just given a kiss before leaving his room, but once Viv was born that all went to shit. He was a terrible sleeper for about a month and needed one of us to sleep with him at all times.

Suesue recommended bribery and it totally worked. He got a sticker for every night he stayed in his big boy bed, then when he got 5 stickers he could pick out a new toy. After a few weeks he didn't need the stickers anymore and it just became routine.

Good luck and big hugs, sleep issues are the ducking worst.

I've tried bribery, and it does nothing. It seems like once bedtime approaches, there is nothing I can say that will change the inevitable meltdown.

[penguingrrl]

Apr 1, 2015 21:45:50 GMT -5 nursewife said:

Apr 1, 2015 21:41:14 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

Yes, those were the days I would make them stay in the kitchen with me and have a dance party while I cooked because otherwise they would fall asleep while playing. We had to power through a lot of cranky evenings while they adjusted to not napping. But it does sound like they're probably ready to give up the nap and that's why she isn't falling asleep . Like I said, I did have a few friends whose daycare would work with them to keep the kid awake knowing that it was becoming a problem. My girls would easily and happily fall asleep at nap time since they were completely exhausted, but that would just keep the horrible cycle going.

I will say that once they were on a no nap schedule for a little while they stopped being total crankpots at night!

When I drop them off tomorrow, I'll ask about keeping them up at naptime. This stage sucks so much. I hate dealing with the afternoon grouchiness from no naps, but hate this even more. It sucks since DS is pretty good at not freaking out even if he naps. I feel like such a shit mom. She's sleeping, but I can still hear her sniffles from crying for so long.

Hugs! You are not a shit mom! She needs her sleep! The afternoon grouch unless on no nap days is hard, but I swear with my kids once they got adjusted to the new routine that went away. With my middle it was light night and day. She was better rested overall, so her behavior was much much better than when we were in the nap causes her to stay up to late causing her to nap again cycle. We figured out that she was only getting 6-7 hours of solid sleep if she napped versus 12 if she didn't, so she was operating on a huge sleep deficit, which was causing poor behavior.

[nursewife]

Apr 1, 2015 21:51:54 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

Apr 1, 2015 21:45:50 GMT -5 nursewife said:

When I drop them off tomorrow, I'll ask about keeping them up at naptime. This stage sucks so much. I hate dealing with the afternoon grouchiness from no naps, but hate this even more. It sucks since DS is pretty good at not freaking out even if he naps. I feel like such a shit mom. She's sleeping, but I can still hear her sniffles from crying for so long.

Hugs! You are not a shit mom! She needs her sleep! The afternoon grouch unless on no nap days is hard, but I swear with my kids once they got adjusted to the new routine that went away. With my middle it was light night and day. She was better rested overall, so her behavior was much much better than when we were in the nap causes her to stay up to late causing her to nap again cycle. We figured out that she was only getting 6-7 hours of solid sleep if she napped versus 12 if she didn't, so she was operating on a huge sleep deficit, which was causing poor behavior.

The days they have daycare, I think they are getting about 8-9 hours of sleep at night. There have been nights when they are up till 1 though. Argh. They totally need more sleep. Their naps are usually only 1 hour at daycare. Do you ever let them have an afternoon nap? I love when we all get to nap on Sundays!

[Deleted]

Apr 1, 2015 21:47:05 GMT -5 nursewife said:

Apr 1, 2015 21:43:47 GMT -5 ladybug said:

Melatonin.

ETa: sorry didn't mean to send.

We give DD melatonin when she's having a hard time. Target sells a Zarbees version. The first night I was fed up just like you are right now and I went to target to get it at like 9pm.

I didn't know it was available in a kids formula. I'll have to check this out tomorrow. I've tried benedryl on some of the really bad nights (I feel awful doing that) but it didn't seem to do too much. I would LOVE if melatonin works.

Someone on my board uses a drop version she gets on amazon. The zarbees is chewable.

It helps a lot. There have been a few threads on April 12 recently about it, you might be able to search for them.

It says ages 3+ and 31lbs but my dd is slightly below both of those.

[penguingrrl]

Apr 1, 2015 21:57:46 GMT -5 nursewife said:

Apr 1, 2015 21:51:54 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

Hugs! You are not a shit mom! She needs her sleep! The afternoon grouch unless on no nap days is hard, but I swear with my kids once they got adjusted to the new routine that went away. With my middle it was light night and day. She was better rested overall, so her behavior was much much better than when we were in the nap causes her to stay up to late causing her to nap again cycle. We figured out that she was only getting 6-7 hours of solid sleep if she napped versus 12 if she didn't, so she was operating on a huge sleep deficit, which was causing poor behavior.

The days they have daycare, I think they are getting about 8-9 hours of sleep at night. There have been nights when they are up till 1 though. Argh. They totally need more sleep. Their naps are usually only 1 hour at daycare. Do you ever let them have an afternoon nap? I love when we all get to nap on Sundays!

I was never able to let them nap. A 5 minute cr nap one day would seriously set their sleep schedule off for 3-4 days. But by a few months in they seriously couldn't have fallen asleep for a nap at all. I wa so annoyed when it happened with my oldest because it was seriously about a month after I got both girls to nap at the same time in the afternoon and I got a break (I SAH), so losing that was hard! Once neither napped life was so much easier though. I no longer had to factor napping in when making plans, which was nice. We had so muh more freedom in our schedule without havin I be home for a few hours in te afternoon (car naps were enough to ruin bedtime, but not enough to leave them rested).

[nursewife]

Apr 1, 2015 22:10:13 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

Apr 1, 2015 21:57:46 GMT -5 nursewife said:

The days they have daycare, I think they are getting about 8-9 hours of sleep at night. There have been nights when they are up till 1 though. Argh. They totally need more sleep. Their naps are usually only 1 hour at daycare. Do you ever let them have an afternoon nap? I love when we all get to nap on Sundays!

I was never able to let them nap. A 5 minute cr nap one day would seriously set their sleep schedule off for 3-4 days. But by a few months in they seriously couldn't have fallen asleep for a nap at all. I wa so annoyed when it happened with my oldest because it was seriously about a month after I got both girls to nap at the same time in the afternoon and I got a break (I SAH), so losing that was hard! Once neither napped life was so much easier though. I no longer had to factor napping in when making plans, which was nice. We had so muh more freedom in our schedule without havin I be home for a few hours in te afternoon (car naps were enough to ruin bedtime, but not enough to leave them rested).

I honestly think having them give up a nap will be harder on me than them! I've been dealing with depression and chronic pain. I love having that time to myself to either nap, or just try to rest and relax. I guess this stage is making up for them being the best sleepers when they were babies.

[Deleted]

I like all of the suggestions above. It does sound like my DD at age 3, napping would keep her up until 11PM or even later. Unfortunately, I couldn't let her nap even occasionally after she gave them up unless she was sick.

You are not a terrible mom! Sleep issues have caused (and still cause) so much stress for everyone in my house. I do think you might need to punish her a little bit for the screaming, since it keeps her brother awake, maybe by taking away privileges.  Is she happy just playing in her room at bedtime?

As for you getting a break, are you against TV?  Honestly, I'd put them in front of a movie every afternoon if you need a break, it sounds like you're dealing with a lot.  Hugs!

[penguingrrl]

Apr 1, 2015 22:17:44 GMT -5 nursewife said:

Apr 1, 2015 22:10:13 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

I was never able to let them nap. A 5 minute cr nap one day would seriously set their sleep schedule off for 3-4 days. But by a few months in they seriously couldn't have fallen asleep for a nap at all. I wa so annoyed when it happened with my oldest because it was seriously about a month after I got both girls to nap at the same time in the afternoon and I got a break (I SAH), so losing that was hard! Once neither napped life was so much easier though. I no longer had to factor napping in when making plans, which was nice. We had so muh more freedom in our schedule without havin I be home for a few hours in te afternoon (car naps were enough to ruin bedtime, but not enough to leave them rested).

I honestly think having them give up a nap will be harder on me than them! I've been dealing with depression and chronic pain. I love having that time to myself to either nap, or just try to rest and relax. I guess this stage is making up for them being the best sleepers when they were babies.

It's hard to lose that "me time" no question! But, once they're adjusted you can send them to play by themselves for a bit. And the older they get the easier that is. Now when my 7 year old pesters me and says she's bored I tell her to go read a book or go build with Legos. And she has learned to at least stop bugging me lol!

You're at one of the hardest stages as far as being touched out and drained, and you have two in that hard stage. I promise it gets easier!

[Patsy Stone]

Apr 1, 2015 21:31:03 GMT -5 nursewife said:

Apr 1, 2015 21:20:00 GMT -5 revolution said:

My 3 year old sucks at bedtime. He just does. I put a baby gate on his room and he plays from 7:30 until about 9 when I am tired and then I will go in and cuddle him for a few minutes and then he goes into his bed. I usually stay beside him until he falls asleep. The last part I don't recommend. I just gave up after about 6 months of putting him back in his bed and the constant screaming.

So really. I would vote to rock her at this point in time. Everyone needs sleep.

The only thing that really calms her down, is putting her in our bed. Doing that makes sleep impossible for us. Since we both need to sleep on a good mattress, one of us going to the couch isn't the greatest option. Currently DS is sleeping in my bed because I needed to get him away from the screaming so he could sleep, but that just makes her more upset and jealous. Argh. I need a stiff drink.

Can you put her in your bed and then move her to her own bed once she falls asleep?

[Deleted]

Apr 1, 2015 22:17:44 GMT -5 nursewife said:

Apr 1, 2015 22:10:13 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

I was never able to let them nap. A 5 minute cr nap one day would seriously set their sleep schedule off for 3-4 days. But by a few months in they seriously couldn't have fallen asleep for a nap at all. I wa so annoyed when it happened with my oldest because it was seriously about a month after I got both girls to nap at the same time in the afternoon and I got a break (I SAH), so losing that was hard! Once neither napped life was so much easier though. I no longer had to factor napping in when making plans, which was nice. We had so muh more freedom in our schedule without havin I be home for a few hours in te afternoon (car naps were enough to ruin bedtime, but not enough to leave them rested).

I honestly think having them give up a nap will be harder on me than them! I've been dealing with depression and chronic pain. I love having that time to myself to either nap, or just try to rest and relax. I guess this stage is making up for them being the best sleepers when they were babies.

My dd has quiet time still for 2-2.5 hours a day so I still get a break. And so does she actually, if she doesn't have this she is a major grump.

[nursewife]

Apr 1, 2015 22:22:15 GMT -5 @sarajenn said:

I like all of the suggestions above. It does sound like my DD at age 3, napping would keep her up until 11PM or even later. Unfortunately, I couldn't let her nap even occasionally after she gave them up unless she was sick.

You are not a terrible mom! Sleep issues have caused (and still cause) so much stress for everyone in my house. I do think you might need to punish her a little bit for the screaming, since it keeps her brother awake, maybe by taking away privileges.  Is she happy just playing in her room at bedtime?

As for you getting a break, are you against TV?  Honestly, I'd put them in front of a movie every afternoon if you need a break, it sounds like you're dealing with a lot.  Hugs!

I've tried the above with no luck. I put them in their room between 7:30 and 8:00. They play and somewhat settle down. They do watch tv. I fall asleep so easily, and if that happens, they destroy things. 

[nursewife]

Apr 1, 2015 22:28:35 GMT -5 Patsy Stone said:

Apr 1, 2015 21:31:03 GMT -5 nursewife said:

The only thing that really calms her down, is putting her in our bed. Doing that makes sleep impossible for us. Since we both need to sleep on a good mattress, one of us going to the couch isn't the greatest option. Currently DS is sleeping in my bed because I needed to get him away from the screaming so he could sleep, but that just makes her more upset and jealous. Argh. I need a stiff drink.

Can you put her in your bed and then move her to her own bed once she falls asleep?

We have done that, but the other gets jealous. I also don't want them to always think they get to sleep in mommy and daddy's bed. I still let them if they aren't feeling well since they like the comfort. MIL has also got in H's mind that having them in our bed is the worst.thing.ever. H has lightened up since he likes the snuggles and what not. That and some nights we are just desperate and DGAF what it takes to get them to sleep. If we had the room for a king sized bed, we would likely cosleep.

[fryjack2]

I'm currently sitting outside my twins' room. They will be three on the 20th. They share a room but Jack STTN. Although he has been waking up now with Henry's wake ups. I've been up no less than 12 times with Henry. Like every night for the past forever. I'm so so so over it. He's now been quiet for. 5 minutes. After I took away his binky and let him scream for 6 minutes. I have zero faith that he will remain asleep. I told him that if I come in again the binky is gone.

He goes to bed fine. 3-4 hours later he starts with the waking up every 10 minutes. I go in and he lays back down and closes his eyes until I walk out. Or just screams and screams.

Bribes don't work. Stickers charts mean nothing. Bringing him into our bed (which we did for the first time in three months again last night) means no one really sleeps but at least he isn't up screaming every 10 minutes. He has water, blankets, lovies, binkies, nightlight, etc.

He has never responded to any type of sleep training. Ferber, no cry sleep solutions, nothing.

We live in a condo and I'm always worried about what our neighbors will say since one complained last year about the crying. H is on call (and Henry wants nothing to do with him during night wake ups) so I've been dealing with it alone.

I've emailed our pedi about melatonin. I'm turning to Meds now.

Anyway, just wanted to commiserate with you and send you hugs. I hope it gets better soon.

[housewife]

Apr 1, 2015 21:47:05 GMT -5 nursewife said:

Apr 1, 2015 21:43:47 GMT -5 ladybug said:

Melatonin.

ETa: sorry didn't mean to send.

We give DD melatonin when she's having a hard time. Target sells a Zarbees version. The first night I was fed up just like you are right now and I went to target to get it at like 9pm.

I didn't know it was available in a kids formula. I'll have to check this out tomorrow. I've tried benedryl on some of the really bad nights (I feel awful doing that) but it didn't seem to do too much. I would LOVE if melatonin works.

We just buy the regular adult version (3mg) and cut them half per the dev. pedi. It tastes nasty, so I give it to them with a vitamin. Works amazing and doesn't have to be a long term thing. We've used it for a week or two here and there to establish a better bedtime bedtime.