Should we move?

[lizzard]

We bought a townhouse at the (pretty much) height of the market (actually H bought it before we met). It's in a great school district, and it's nice, but we are a family of 4 people & 2 dogs and it's starting to feel crowded. We adopted our kids about 3 years ago. They are now 10 & 11.

It's just under 1600 square feet. 2 bathrooms. Our kids sleep on the lowest level of the house. There was 1 bedroom down there when we bought, and we turned the rec room into a makeshift bedroom (no closet, and she has an electric fireplace in her room).

The main problem is that it's very "efficient" but there is no extra space. We used the rec room as our daughter's bedroom. On our main level we have a (small) living room that has a piano in it (our girls play piano), a dining room and a kitchen. All very small. It works, but it is tight. Our master bedroom is on the upper-most floor.

Our daughters both have PTSD (from trauma that happened in foster care & with their biomom). They have ADHD. The oldest daughter has RAD. They are VERY needy and it is really hard in our small house as there is nowhere to have them hang-out for quiet time besides everyone being in their own room (which doesn't always work). We don't "need" the extra space, but it is very very close quarters in our house, and it's really hard sometimes. The girls don't handle unstructured time very well, so I am always having to help them figure out what to do or they tantrum. It would be nice to have a recroom where they could play piano, watch TV, and maybe draw (and one daughter could do her sensory activities).... without doing that in the living room (which is right next to the kitchen where I'm trying to cook).

We are about $12K underwater right now in our townhouse (not including any selling costs). Our mortgage is super cheap because we got it modified, but it's a crappy modification:
They set aside 34,100 of principal into a "non interest bearing account" that will come due at the end of the loan. If we make any extra payments on our mortgage, it first goes to that non-interest bearing principal. When they modified our loan, they extended it into a 40-year loan on the following schedule:

2% interest rate for 5 years

3% interest rate - Year 6

4% interest rate - Year 7

4.25% interest rate - Years 8 thru 40


Our current payment is $800 per month (including principal, interest, taxes, PMI). We also pay $200 per month in association fees. When it goes up to the highest amount (Year 8) our monthly payment will be $1,000 plus association fee.


We have to stay in the same school district because of our children's special needs. The townhouse rental market is good where we live with a low vacancy rate. So renting it out shouldn't be an issue (although I don't want to be a landlord & I know there's a lot of risk with being a landlord).


We qualify for at least a $240K mortgage on a "new" home while still owning our townhome. I don't want to spend that much. We found a fixer upper that we can probably get for $200K. Same school district, and with more square footage (and a rec room) + a yard. Payment would be about $1,250 per month with taxes, PMI (we would put 5% down, yes, I know... bad that it's not 20%), principal, interest.

Our monthly takehome is:
$3,300 = H's job
$2,000 = my job (approximately as I'm self-employed)
$1104 = adoption assistance (not taxed)

Our children also qualify for a grant because of their special needs - that would be an additional $300 per month. We haven't done anything to get that grant yet, but we have a meeting about that in 2 weeks.

We contribute to H's 401K (8% + employer match), and to a ROTH IRA ($100 per month - I know, not enough) for me. I owe $60K in student loans (paying $484 per month on the 25 year plan). H owes $8K. No other debt (except low interest car loans  - 1 is almost paid off). $21,500 K in liquid savings (but we would use $10K as a down payment).

I just feel so trapped by our townhome and the 40-year mortgage. At first our plan was to stay in the townhome forever and try to pay off student loans, but our kids are making me feel like I need a little more space. We keep trying to rearrange things to see if it makes it better, but we are running out of things to do/rearrange.

 

[my3bears]

I'm not sure what state you're in, but in my state kids with RAD and PTSD qualify to have therapists come to the house to help them learn what to do with that unstructured time. Do you have any resources like that? It might be worth trying that first before selling the house. It seems like there still are positive things about the house and the process of getting a different house and renting this out and dealing with the financial part of that can be incredibly stressful, above and beyond the stress you're already under.

I work in the homes with families who have adopted kids who have RAD + PTSD and sometimes also autism, developmental delay, brain injuries, etc. on top of that. I 100% get how difficult it can be.

[mrshandy]

I would not feel comfortable buying a fixer upper and being a landlord with only $10K in emergency fund.

The numbers just don't work out. How long would it take you to save more? How much are you saving a month?

[Velar Fricative]

I like the idea of having them share a bedroom (if possible) and use the extra room as their rec room. I would try that first before going through the hassle of selling/moving, if you haven't already tried it. Even if it works out for you financially to move, I'm someone who hates moving with the passion of a thousand fiery suns so I would try *anything else* before resorting to that.

[lizzard]

Apr 14, 2015 21:38:19 GMT -5 @domerjen said:

Well, I didn't analyze your #'s, but is there any way to shift stuff around so that you have more room? Either make the downstairs bedroom for both of them (sleeping only) and then they have the rec room back to do their thing in. I know shared bedrooms are generally anathema on MM, and may be a no go due to their SN, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

Another option might be to move the piano into the rec-turned-bedroom so they can do their practicing there. Again, not sure how possessive they are of their spaces.

As far as moving... you'll always have bought at the top of the market. It's a sunk cost. The balloon mortgage is a bit disconcerting, but since it's so long term probably not really an issue. Do you have to keep the town home? I would sell it if you can, but maybe you can't bring enough cash to the table?

Basically, I wouldn't move unless you can sell. I think it sets you up for real issues without a big emergency fund in case of rental issues.

The girls can't share a room because they have inappropriate boundaries together. We had them share a room when they first moved in & we had to have a lot of talks about why you don't masturbate together. We can thank Biomom's creepy boyfriend for those issues. It sucks. 

We don't have to keep the townhome, but I don't want to bring cash to the table right now.

[lizzard]

Apr 14, 2015 19:36:58 GMT -5 my3bears said:

I'm not sure what state you're in, but in my state kids with RAD and PTSD qualify to have therapists come to the house to help them learn what to do with that unstructured time. Do you have any resources like that? It might be worth trying that first before selling the house. It seems like there still are positive things about the house and the process of getting a different house and renting this out and dealing with the financial part of that can be incredibly stressful, above and beyond the stress you're already under.

I work in the homes with families who have adopted kids who have RAD + PTSD and sometimes also autism, developmental delay, brain injuries, etc. on top of that. I 100% get how difficult it can be.

We had a skills worker (in-home) for a while (a year). We had my older daughter in a special school (day treatment) for a year. They have therapy each week, a psychiatrist, IEPs, etc. They would qualify for a PCA, but we will probably opt for the grant money instead because - honestly - the thought of having one more person in our home and one more person's schedule to work around is exhausting. When we had the skills worker, it was helpful for a while, but then it just because one more thing to deal with. 

[lizzard]

Apr 15, 2015 7:14:58 GMT -5 spearmintleaf said:

I'm sorry to say it, but I wouldn't buy a fixer-upper with a kid with sensory issues, unless by fixer-upper you mean "crappy house we don't plan to renovate until the kids move out." Construction noises, and change to the routine in general, will likely be very disruptive to them. If you could sell the townhouse and buy something else decent I might say go for it.

I personally would have the girls share a bedroom and move to a model where the girls use their bedroom for sleeping only, and spend all their leisure time in the living spaces. My kids are pretty much never in their rooms.

That's a good point about sensory issues + fixer upper. 

In a post above I addressed why they can't share a room. I'm not going to get into too many details here, but they absolutely cannot share a room and that is fairly typical for kids who have been sexually abused

[lizzard]

Apr 15, 2015 7:32:25 GMT -5 mrshandy said:

I would not feel comfortable buying a fixer upper and being a landlord with only $10K in emergency fund.

The numbers just don't work out. How long would it take you to save more? How much are you saving a month?

We're saving around $300 per month. One car will be paid down soon and then we could save more each month (although our plan if we stay in our current place is to use that money to pay down any higher interest student loans instead of saving it).

Things aren't that bad, but we are in the midst of some issues again with one daughter and I'm worn down and exhausted.

[lizzard]

Apr 15, 2015 9:06:14 GMT -5 tillie said:

I don't know the "rules" of a townhouse, but my assumption is you cannot add on. Would you be able to do some interior work, say if one of the girl's bedroom is large can you put up an interior partition or something to make it actually 2 rooms, and then use the other room for the extra rec room you need?

Yeah, we can't really add on. We were looking at doing something with the attic area and making it into a rec room, but from the people I've talked with about it, it's not economically feasible (and might not even be allowed). There isn't really enough space to turn the rec room into 2 separate rooms, although we have thought about it. There is a little extra space there (lowest level) and in our master bedroom (highest level). If we could somehow combine that space, we would probably have enough

[lizzard]

Apr 15, 2015 7:37:07 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

I like the idea of having them share a bedroom (if possible) and use the extra room as their rec room. I would try that first before going through the hassle of selling/moving, if you haven't already tried it. Even if it works out for you financially to move, I'm someone who hates moving with the passion of a thousand fiery suns so I would try *anything else* before resorting to that.

Yeah, I honestly hate the idea of moving. I like our neighborhood. I like pretty much everything. I just am feeling suffocated here right now. My oldest daughter is SO CLINGY. She's 11, almost 12. The other day she grabbed my feet as I was trying to walk up the stairs and started talking to me in a baby voice. It's so sad. She wasn't given a chance to be a kid when she was younger, and now she's trying to relive that while also being a pre-teen. So (as my mom says - she will watch the girls sometimes for a few days to give us a break), she is like having 2 kids. It makes me feel better to hear my mom say that because sometimes I wonder if the reason I suck so bad at being a mom is because I didn't have them since they were babies. I just feel like a failure right now

[lizzard]

Apr 15, 2015 10:44:24 GMT -5 spearmintleaf said:

Apr 15, 2015 10:34:29 GMT -5 lizzard said:

That's a good point about sensory issues + fixer upper. 

In a post above I addressed why they can't share a room. I'm not going to get into too many details here, but they absolutely cannot share a room and that is fairly typical for kids who have been sexually abused

Oof that's awful. I really don't know how helpful this is, but I mentioned before that my stepkids are basically never in their rooms unless it's bedtime. We were in a 3 bedroom townhouse with only one living room and it was definitely close quarters. We moved to a bigger house and really nothing has changed. The kids are so used to being in the room with us all the time that a lot of the house goes unused. I love them dearly but when I need my space my only option is still my bedroom, because if I'm anywhere else in the house they are just ON ME. My concern is that if they are very needy, you may move and put yourself in a worse financial situation only to still feel smothered and overwhelmed. If they each have a bedroom plus a living room (3 rooms for 2 people), this might not be a physical space issue.

I've honestly thought the same thing - that nothing will change if we move because they're so clingy. We've thought about buying them each a TV for their rooms to see if we can get them to hang out in there on their own that way. I know that sounds terrible, but they need to learn how to "self-soothe" even if it is screen time. 

[aurora]

Apr 15, 2015 7:32:25 GMT -5 mrshandy said:

I would not feel comfortable buying a fixer upper and being a landlord with only $10K in emergency fund.

This, and especially since you suspect that more space may not even help the issue. I would also be concerned about buying a fixer upper with what you have described.

I'm sorry your family is having a rough time. Your daughters are lucky to have caring parents in their lives now.

[lurknomore]

Apr 15, 2015 11:09:01 GMT -5 spearmintleaf said:

Apr 15, 2015 10:47:18 GMT -5 lizzard said:

I've honestly thought the same thing - that nothing will change if we move because they're so clingy. We've thought about buying them each a TV for their rooms to see if we can get them to hang out in there on their own that way. I know that sounds terrible, but they need to learn how to "self-soothe" even if it is screen time. 

Omg do it! NOT terrible. Maybe re-doing their rooms to be more efficient with space and allow for hanging out solo would help. Like those lofted beds with a desk underneath and then a recliner and a TV with a little corner for toys. I know that's expensive but it's way cheaper than moving.

I agree that maybe major room makeovers are in order.  Let them help and find things that you can add to their rooms that would attract them to spending time in there.  Stuff they are interested in that they can do alone.  And make them comfy.  I love spearmintleaf's idea of loft beds.  Maybe some big(ger) bean bags with a book shelf for a reading space.  I don't think a TV is the worst thing in the world either.  Perhaps if they had some say in what their room looked/felt like, it may help them want to be there.

I do agree that, especially in the situation you described, alone time (for all 4 of you) is going to be essential.  Do you have outdoor space where the girls can play?  With the change in weather that may help give you some much needed separation too.

Your girls are lucky.  Despite the challenges, I'm sure you're doing a great job under an impossible set of circumstances!  GL!

[lizzard]

We'll definitely work on room makeovers. The weather change is helping (Thank GOD!). Our townhouse is on a cul de sac with a green space in the middle. There are about 10 neighborhood kids who play outside with them on a regular basis, so that does help.

Thanks everyone for your support. We'll get through this just like we've gotten through everything else so far! They are really great adorable funny kids!

[tacosforlife]

I don't have any real advice beyond what's been offered here, but I think the room makeovers sound like a good idea. Get them involved so they can really make their rooms private little oases.

And you are not a bad mom. You're doing the best you can. Your kids were dealt a terrible hand, but I am sure they are much better off with all the love and support you are offering. Be kind to yourself.

[toastie]

I have 2 boys, 5 and 3 with pretty severe special needs. We sold our house because it wasn't accesible to the boys. In my case, I personally consider our housing as part of their medical care. We just bought a new house so they can have their own bedrooms because they wake each other up, there isn't enough space so there is lots of falling and tripping. It's just not safe for them. It sounds like you're in a similar position. With the blank time after school,and on weekends, you don't have enough space to structure activities and schedules.

Can you move and rent within the same district? Would that be a better option.. Also, with a fixer upper is time. Would you have the time to work on it?

Personally, I woukd move. With more space, an ability to structure time and give a sensory space, you may see a lot of behavioral improvements, etc. do your girls go to an in district school? My boys aren't mainstreamed and go to an out of district school so it opened more options for where to live. We just picked a town where lots of kids in the school live and talked with other parents about their experiences.

[scout8]

I just want to say please don't beat yourself up. It sounds like you are doing a great job.

How big is your master bedroom? In addition to creating some space in the girls' rooms for them to relax, could you do the same in your master? That way you would have a little retreat when you need some time alone too.

[thedutchgirl]

You sound like a great mom! Cut yourself some slack!

One other thing I thought--are you allowed to rent with the modification? I know some had primary residence clauses.

[lizzard]

Apr 15, 2015 20:02:50 GMT -5 thedutchgirl said:

You sound like a great mom! Cut yourself some slack!

One other thing I thought--are you allowed to rent with the modification? I know some had primary residence clauses.

Good question and kind of a "we'd cross that bridge when we have to..." situation.

[thedutchgirl]

Apr 15, 2015 20:15:40 GMT -5 lizzard said:

Apr 15, 2015 20:02:50 GMT -5 thedutchgirl said:

You sound like a great mom! Cut yourself some slack!

One other thing I thought--are you allowed to rent with the modification? I know some had primary residence clauses.

Good question and kind of a "we'd cross that bridge when we have to..." situation.

I figured. Just thought I'd mention it so you had it in mind if you thought about renting.

[lizzard]

Apr 15, 2015 18:46:56 GMT -5 toastie said:

I have 2 boys, 5 and 3 with pretty severe special needs. We sold our house because it wasn't accesible to the boys. In my case, I personally consider our housing as part of their medical care. We just bought a new house so they can have their own bedrooms because they wake each other up, there isn't enough space so there is lots of falling and tripping. It's just not safe for them. It sounds like you're in a similar position. With the blank time after school,and on weekends, you don't have enough space to structure activities and schedules.

Can you move and rent within the same district? Would that be a better option.. Also, with a fixer upper is time. Would you have the time to work on it?

Personally, I woukd move. With more space, an ability to structure time and give a sensory space, you may see a lot of behavioral improvements, etc. do your girls go to an in district school? My boys aren't mainstreamed and go to an out of district school so it opened more options for where to live. We just picked a town where lots of kids in the school live and talked with other parents about their experiences.

Thanks for your thoughts. I don't know that we could affordable rent in this district. The rental market is really tight here. 

We are in the midst of a rough night. Pure exhaustion and I'm so frustrated right now. I don't think anything will fix things Not a house, not more therapy.... nothing. 

I also ate 3 scoops of ice cream & I feel myself wanting to skip out on going to the gym. So not good!

While at therapy tonight to discuss my older daughter stealing my younger daughter's journal and writing VERY inappropriate things in it (drawing sexual drawings and talking about wanting to have sex with people) in it, we also noticed that the older daughter had a "new" watch on. She always has things that "just appear" in her room. In foster care (not with us) she stole an iPad. She was recently accused of stealing an iPhone at school. Now there is the mysterious watch. 

And this is on top of so many other things  

Sorry. Just need to vent.

I'm so overwhelmed and so numb. I thought things were getting better, but clearly I was delusional. 

[lizzard]

Apr 15, 2015 20:18:05 GMT -5 thedutchgirl said:

Apr 15, 2015 20:15:40 GMT -5 lizzard said:

Good question and kind of a "we'd cross that bridge when we have to..." situation.

I figured. Just thought I'd mention it so you had it in mind if you thought about renting.

Yeah... we've thought about it too and have figured that if we got in trouble for renting it out, it might be time to just give up the ghost and ruin our credit. I'm not saying that's the right choice, but I just don't know what else to do. 

[thedutchgirl]

It is hard to know what to do. I'm sorry you are in a tough spot.

[lizzard]

Apr 15, 2015 19:26:28 GMT -5 scout8 said:

I just want to say please don't beat yourself up. It sounds like you are doing a great job.

How big is your master bedroom? In addition to creating some space in the girls' rooms for them to relax, could you do the same in your master? That way you would have a little retreat when you need some time alone too.

It kind of is my retreat right now, but all I really do up here is relax in my bed. Which is fine I did put some "relaxing" scented candles up here which helps..... and sometimes I have a glass of wine or 2 at night in our room or in the bathtub and I feel pretty great  

My mom says I need to get some sort of hobby. My only "hobby" really is going to the gym. Which really isn't that much of a hobby and I don't always want to do it. 

One more expensive house that we looked at ($240K - too expensive for us) had a really nice garden in the backyard. Ducks hang out and drink water & deer come there too. I'm not very "gardeny" (I kill all flowers by accident), but that tranquility sounds nice. Of course, the weather is only nice here for a few months (thanks, MN).

[lizzard]

H just did a sweep of her room and found a note she wrote about online chatting with guys about wanting to have sex We thought we had the internet locked down really well, but apparently not. She is alone at home for MAYBE 1 hour each day after school (I try to time my work schedule so she is barely home alone).

Ugh.

[aurora]

I'm sorry, lizzard. That sounds like a really tough situation.

[sparkythelawyer]

I'll ask this: How much "fix-upping" does the fixer upper need? What is an immediate "must fix - not safe in its current condition" and what is just "ugly as hell and super outdated." If you could get the bigger space and stay in your condo until the major repairs are done, would that help?

If you were to rent, would it be enough to cover your house payment?

[toastie]

Apr 15, 2015 20:21:41 GMT -5 lizzard said:

Apr 15, 2015 18:46:56 GMT -5 toastie said:

I have 2 boys, 5 and 3 with pretty severe special needs. We sold our house because it wasn't accesible to the boys. In my case, I personally consider our housing as part of their medical care. We just bought a new house so they can have their own bedrooms because they wake each other up, there isn't enough space so there is lots of falling and tripping. It's just not safe for them. It sounds like you're in a similar position. With the blank time after school,and on weekends, you don't have enough space to structure activities and schedules.

Can you move and rent within the same district? Would that be a better option.. Also, with a fixer upper is time. Would you have the time to work on it?

Personally, I woukd move. With more space, an ability to structure time and give a sensory space, you may see a lot of behavioral improvements, etc. do your girls go to an in district school? My boys aren't mainstreamed and go to an out of district school so it opened more options for where to live. We just picked a town where lots of kids in the school live and talked with other parents about their experiences.

Thanks for your thoughts. I don't know that we could affordable rent in this district. The rental market is really tight here. 

We are in the midst of a rough night. Pure exhaustion and I'm so frustrated right now. I don't think anything will fix things Not a house, not more therapy.... nothing. 

I also ate 3 scoops of ice cream & I feel myself wanting to skip out on going to the gym. So not good!

While at therapy tonight to discuss my older daughter stealing my younger daughter's journal and writing VERY inappropriate things in it (drawing sexual drawings and talking about wanting to have sex with people) in it, we also noticed that the older daughter had a "new" watch on. She always has things that "just appear" in her room. In foster care (not with us) she stole an iPad. She was recently accused of stealing an iPhone at school. Now there is the mysterious watch. 

And this is on top of so many other things  

Sorry. Just need to vent.

I'm so overwhelmed and so numb. I thought things were getting better, but clearly I was delusional. 

There is a special needs board here and on goodbyecb that could help,you with venting.

[kershnic]

I was all ready to tell you to make the move happen....but the more you write the more I think you're seeking a physical space change because you're overwhelmed not because it would really solve your problems. Taking on renters and a fixer upper house will NOT make you feel less overwhelmed.

Have you posted a budget here? Thinking about our take home and how much we spend on the expenses that you listed I feel like you might have some places you could tighten your budget and increase savings to get you out eventually.

[kershnic]

Oh yeah - is there an adoption support group available to you? You're parenting kids with really tough issues. I know it's hard on the internet because you can't share everything.