I have an eco-related question

[mrs.jacinthe]

Where are my conservation-y peeps at?

@juno ktzmoh (who else?  If you know of someone else, tag them please)

Now that we're in a drought, I see a lot of people who are all "I'M NOT RUNNING THE DISHWASHER!  PAPER PLATES!!!"

I was always under the impression that paper plates were equally horrifying for the environment (in terms of water required for manufacture as well as bio-degradability).  Am I wrong?  A lot of websites disagree on this, so I'm wondering if there's a definitive source for which is worse?  R threw a monkey wrench into the works by being like ... "just buy the US-made ones that are made on the east coast.  They have plenty of water."  (LOL)  For the record, I think he prefers the dishwasher, but was sort of playing devil's advocate.

FWIW, my dishwasher is energy star rated and uses about 3.5 gal/load (which means it takes like 4 hours to do a load.  Sigh.)

[ktzmoh]

So this is a tricky issue and one I thought a lot about when my kids were in diapers. Was it better to use cloth and wash them in a drought state or buy manufactured ones that I know use way more water to make, but are made in non-drought areas. And I've started thinking about the paper plates issue in this context just recently.

Here is what I decided: Paper plates and plastic shit consume an extraordinary amount of resources for their 30 second useful lifespan. In terms of their carbon footprint, it's just not warranted in my mind. And I'm a believer that this drought is consistent with climate change and shifting to behaviors that raise our carbon footprint can only make it worse down the road. So we are doing things to just really limit then umber of times we use the dishwasher. So we use the same cups all day - we find ways to use fewer pots and pans when cooking, fewer utensils, I'll just give the kids sandwiches on napkins instead of plates (or I'll then use the plate for myself). Just being conscientious of what we are using has really surprised me with how much we can reduce our dishwasher use. We probably run it every 2-3 days at this point. Same thing goes for our clothes and the washing machine.

FWIW we are down to 65gal/day for our family of 4. I'm trying to get us to 50....

[ktzmoh]

Apr 21, 2015 10:23:57 GMT -5 @juno said:

I've heard the same. But i have no definitive answer or guide. I would guess that if one chose disposable, non-coated, unbleached that can be composted on site would be the least impactful but that's a guess. I have read about dw vs hand washing and all sources seem to agree that dw is better, though i'd guess that is heavily dependent upon how you handwash.

And lol at "Now that we're in a drought."

Do you compost on site? Is there a downside to municipal compost?

[mrs.jacinthe]

We're pretty water conservation-friendly: our shower uses around a gallon a minute and we take 5 minute showers (or so). We've completely stopped watering outdoors, except for a gallon or two a week from pasta cooking water.

What we mostly struggle with are toilets and the washing machine, none of which are super eco-friendly. Toilet-wise, we've cut back on flushing as much as possible, but they use so much water I feel guilty literally every time I flush. The washing machine is an older model (although still HE) but we do a LOT of laundry.

[mrs.jacinthe]

Apr 21, 2015 10:23:57 GMT -5 @juno said:

I've heard the same. But i have no definitive answer or guide. I would guess that if one chose disposable, non-coated, unbleached that can be composted on site would be the least impactful but that's a guess. I have read about dw vs hand washing and all sources seem to agree that dw is better, though i'd guess that is heavily dependent upon how you handwash.

And lol at "Now that we're in a drought."

Well, I guess more accurate would be "Now that people sort of care that we're in a drought."

[TBM]

For disposable to be something that I would consider using, they would have to have a much smaller carbon footprint.

We used the dishwasher, but we have been big on reusing glasses and not using more dishes than absolutely necessary. We are still in the habit.   I was shocked at how many more glasses and cups needed washing when we had company. They must have gotten a new glass every time they got a drink. The plus side is that our bottom dishdrawer got run a few times...we usually forget to use it.

When we had water waster toilets many years ago, we kept a 5 gal bucket in the shower and used whatever water it collected to flush the toilets. I take quick showers and we had switched to water saving shower heads, but there was still a fair amount of water collected.

[munkii]

I know this varies by local codes, but I'll throw this out there. Can you hook your d/w up to a gray water system? That would be far superior to the use of paper plates (although, I'm still team d/w without this type of hook up).

[mrs.jacinthe]

Apr 21, 2015 11:39:00 GMT -5 munkii said:

I know this varies by local codes, but I'll throw this out there. Can you hook your d/w up to a gray water system? That would be far superior to the use of paper plates (although, I'm still team d/w without this type of hook up).

Technically grey water collection is illegal in our county.  "All wastewater must be discharged into an approved sewage disposal system."

Un-technically, we've considered hooking up the washing machine to a barrel in the backyard (where it would be difficult to see from any road.  LOL) but unfortunately, that would be a ridiculous location for greywater collection, as we'd have to pump or carry it a LONG ways to actually use it. 

[mrs.jacinthe]

Apr 21, 2015 12:07:09 GMT -5 FormerlyRR said:

I visited a friend up in the Dallas area who had a grey water sprinkling system. It came on at crazy times, whenever the tank got to a certain level I think. I really like the concept.

I'd be afraid to sprinkle at this point.  They're offering rewards to people who turn in water wasters and if our sprinklers were on, there's a chance we'd get fined.

[treedimensional]

 You still use plates? Come on, the environmentally conscious choice among Ecofornians is grazing.
On xeriscape plants. Like cacti. In community gardens.

[ktzmoh]

Apr 21, 2015 11:50:15 GMT -5 mrs.jacinthe said:

Apr 21, 2015 11:39:00 GMT -5 munkii said:

I know this varies by local codes, but I'll throw this out there. Can you hook your d/w up to a gray water system? That would be far superior to the use of paper plates (although, I'm still team d/w without this type of hook up).

Technically grey water collection is illegal in our county.  "All wastewater must be discharged into an approved sewage disposal system."

Un-technically, we've considered hooking up the washing machine to a barrel in the backyard (where it would be difficult to see from any road.  LOL) but unfortunately, that would be a ridiculous location for greywater collection, as we'd have to pump or carry it a LONG ways to actually use it. 

Where is your washing machine? Our greywater system for our washier is SO low tech and pretty convenient. We just put the hose in a big plastic trashcan in the garage (elevated on a couple of blocks). We have a submergable pump that we use when our crawlspace floods (if it ever rains again), hooked up to a hose. and I just pump it out to the trees and shrubs we planted a couple of years ago. Even if you just pump it into the lawn I think it's better. It filters and percolates down into the ground instead of going into a sewage system.

Also, my biceps really benefited from lugging around buckets of greywater all summer last year and we stared it up again two weeks ago.

[ktzmoh]

Apr 21, 2015 12:11:10 GMT -5 mrs.jacinthe said:

Apr 21, 2015 12:07:09 GMT -5 FormerlyRR said:

I visited a friend up in the Dallas area who had a grey water sprinkling system. It came on at crazy times, whenever the tank got to a certain level I think. I really like the concept.

I'd be afraid to sprinkle at this point.  They're offering rewards to people who turn in water wasters and if our sprinklers were on, there's a chance we'd get fined.

Where did you hear about that? I want to know if I can report people around me! I saw some douchebag with a sprinkler on his turf when I was out running this weekend and I totally took a cell phone video hoping i could report him LOL! And I'd totally be the one that reports the neighbors.

[mrs.jacinthe]

Apr 21, 2015 15:04:29 GMT -5 ktzmoh said:

Apr 21, 2015 11:50:15 GMT -5 mrs.jacinthe said:

Technically grey water collection is illegal in our county.  "All wastewater must be discharged into an approved sewage disposal system."

Un-technically, we've considered hooking up the washing machine to a barrel in the backyard (where it would be difficult to see from any road.  LOL) but unfortunately, that would be a ridiculous location for greywater collection, as we'd have to pump or carry it a LONG ways to actually use it. 

Where is your washing machine? Our greywater system for our washier is SO low tech and pretty convenient. We just put the hose in a big plastic trashcan in the garage (elevated on a couple of blocks). We have a submergable pump that we use when our crawlspace floods (if it ever rains again), hooked up to a hose. and I just pump it out to the trees and shrubs we planted a couple of years ago. Even if you just pump it into the lawn I think it's better. It filters and percolates down into the ground instead of going into a sewage system.

Also, my biceps really benefited from lugging around buckets of greywater all summer last year and we stared it up again two weeks ago.

In the back of the house, where the drop-off is steep and there's no grass, sadly. 

[mrs.jacinthe]

Apr 21, 2015 15:05:39 GMT -5 ktzmoh said:

Apr 21, 2015 12:11:10 GMT -5 mrs.jacinthe said:

I'd be afraid to sprinkle at this point.  They're offering rewards to people who turn in water wasters and if our sprinklers were on, there's a chance we'd get fined.

Where did you hear about that? I want to know if I can report people around me! I saw some douchebag with a sprinkler on his turf when I was out running this weekend and I totally took a cell phone video hoping i could report him LOL! And I'd totally be the one that reports the neighbors.

You can.  Our local water agency is the one we'd report it to.

Are you EBMUD?  The link to report is here: ebmud.com/report-water-waste  but it doesn't look like they're offering rewards.

[AAM2012]

Most dishwashers are pretty efficient. I would imagine if you reuse your cups as much as possible and then only run the dishwasher when full I bet it's better than throwing away plates, forks, etc every day.

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