Actually yes. Pretty much the whole damn system has been exposed as being extremely corrupt. Many of the upper government officials have resigned. The whole town has been put under the review of the DOJ. Their entire judicial system is getting a top down overhaul.
Soooooo... your point is?
Who knows, those same things might have been accomplished without burning Ferguson down too.
I am not the enemy. I am not sure why you are so hostile to me. I don't agree with you about riots. I guess we can agree to disagree.
No, they would not. The only reason the DOJ was called in to investigate was because they came under scrutiny during the first protest when the police dept. rolled out their tank. They also messed with journalists recording the protests. Otherwise it would have been just another black kid killed by the police.
And no, we cannot agree to disagree when you are wrong. Opinions are not facts. There is no agreement to be had here, just factual statements.
Post by creamsiclechica on Apr 27, 2015 22:42:52 GMT -5
Violence was a justifiable answer for whites to use against peaceful protests since the country's inception, and notably during the civil rights movement. It was ordered by top officials as a swift and easy way to alleviate their threat to racial supremacy and gain attention for their cause nationwide. Dogs, clubs, shanks, hoses, chains viciously attacked men, women, and children as they marched, arms linked in the streets silently begging for treatment better than scum. Now, as they're murdered at the hands of whites in power for existing, violence isn't the answer.
Why is it only the answer if the race in power is doing the fucking asking? Probably because that power has never been relenquished or sufficiently challenged and they're consistently allowed to use brutality and call it justice.
Actually yes. Pretty much the whole damn system has been exposed as being extremely corrupt. Many of the upper government officials have resigned. The whole town has been put under the review of the DOJ. Their entire judicial system is getting a top down overhaul.
Soooooo... your point is?
Who knows, those same things might have been accomplished without burning Ferguson down too.
I am not the enemy. I am not sure why you are so hostile to me. I don't agree with you about riots. I guess we can agree to disagree.
I don't think anyone WANTS riots or looting or violence. I wish none of this happened, because I wish that Freddie Gray and the many others hadn't been killed. I don't know the answer, but I do know that when my kids are adults and looking back at all of this, I truly hope that this is all a thing of the past and that they wonder what the hell was wrong with people. Peaceful protests aren't getting things done. I would much rather see a CVS burning than another black man killed or hurt. I wish those weren't the options, but I don't see anything else working or getting people talking as much.
Fight in the courts and legislature. You all didn't tell me the evening's entertainment would include live comedy!
That just slays me. Alllllll those court cases where police officers who brutally murder unarmed men and boys are tried for their crimes. Yeah! Make your points there! At the courthouse's public open mic night.
That and all the "it's not the answer" responses. Like someone driven to riot by decades of pain and yet another inhumane and unlawful killing of an unarmed black man is thinking "you know, I bet if I light the makeup aisle at CVS on fire there will be an immediate quid pro quo reaction, ending police violence."
I can't pretend to understand what it's like to be a black man or woman in America, but I have a brain, a working knowledge of history, and a heart. I can understand enough to get why some riot. Even if rioting "isn't the answer."
That just slays me. Alllllll those court cases where police officers who brutally murder unarmed men and boys are tried for their crimes. Yeah! Make your points there! At the courthouse's public open mic night.
That and all the "it's not the answer" responses. Like someone driven to riot by decades of pain and yet another inhumane and unlawful killing of an unarmed black man is thinking "you know, I bet if I light the makeup aisle at CVS on fire there will be an immediate quid pro quo reaction, ending police violence."
I can't pretend to understand what it's like to be a black man or woman in America, but I have a brain, a working knowledge of history, and a heart. I can understand enough to get why some riot. Even if rioting "isn't the answer."
It's always real fucking easy for people who have no experience in a situation to tell others in that situation what they should be doing.
Marie Antoinetters all up in this bitch, it's very "let them eat cake!"
Oh no, just calm your tits rioters, this isn't the answer, just keep being quiet and firm in your dignified anger and eventually you may actually get cops indicted for shooting your son or your daughter or your dad in the face for existing while black. Trust me, you've only been doing it for like, seventy years, you're almost there, promise. BLACK PRESIDENT, SEE?!
so concerned about people destroying neighborhoods that they themselves wouldn't step a single toe in during broad daylight. Maybe a field trip to loot a Home Goods or Total Wine would get things moving a bit.
It's always real fucking easy for people who have no experience in a situation to tell others in that situation what they should be doing.
Marie Antoinetters all up in this bitch, it's very "let them eat cake!"
Oh no, just calm your tits rioters, this isn't the answer, just keep being quiet and firm in your dignified anger and eventually you may actually get cops indicted for shooting your son or your daughter or your dad in the face for existing while black. Trust me, you've only been doing it for like, seventy years, you're almost there, promise. BLACK PRESIDENT, SEE?!
so concerned about people destroying neighborhoods that they themselves wouldn't step a single toe in during broad daylight. Maybe a field trip to loot a Home Goods or Total Wine would get things moving a bit.
How about Hobby Lobby? Deprive them of some profits they can use to suppress women's control over their bodies too. Just trying to maximize upside.
I think people need to read what @kande818 wrote a few times.
And think about this:
How would you feel if a kid who looked like your brother was shot with his hands in the air. He had no weapon. And the cops who did it were not convicted and everyone said this kid who looked like your brother deserved it.
How would you feel if a kid who looked like your 12-year old son was standing on the corner with a BB gun and was shot and killed? But the cops weren't arrested or convicted here either and people said this kid who looked like your son probably deserved it.
How would you feel if someone who looked like your dad was standing in the toy department with a toy gun talking on his cell phone and the cops came in and shot him. But they weren't arrested or convicted either, because - hey - how can you tell a toy gun from a real one, amirite?
How would you feel if someone who looked like your cousin saw some cops and ran, but had committed no crime and then was taken on a "rough ride" during which his spine was severed 80%!of the way, but instead of people focusing on the cops who did this, they focused on the people protesting?
Think about these people who look like your loved ones and multiply it by a lot. People who look like your loved ones are being murdered all the time and no one is doing anything, very few are getting arrested and sure as hell no one is getting convicted. These are just a few examples of an endemic problem that America is ignoring or outright blaming on you.
How would you feel?
This legit is about to become my FB post - signed underwaterrhymes.
I'm dying that Ferguson didn't accomplish anything. I would bet my fucking life that 90% of the news coverage we have had on the killings of unarmed black men over the last 6 months wouldn't have existed if the Ferguson riots hadn't existed. The "coverage" would have been a blurb in the local section of the local newspaper.
But when people start burning shit down, the news picks up on it. And when the threat of additional rioting is real, the news picks up on that too. And as a result, I have heard more national news coverage of cops using lethal force than I have since forever.
I found a speech MLK made months before he died. Many of the points he makes are still relevant which is really sad considering how much time has passed.
share.memebox.com/x/uKhKaZmemebox referal code for 20% off! DD1 "J" born 3/2003 DD2 "G" born 4/2011 DS is here! "H" born 2/2014 m/c#3 1-13-13 @ 9 weeks m/c#2 11-11-12 @ 5w2d I am an extended breastfeeding, cloth diapering, baby wearing, pro marriage equality, birth control lovin', Catholic mama.
I want to hear police weigh in on all of this. I have nothing but respect for the profession, but I'm wondering why there haven't been people in the line of duty publicly saying that every group of people has it's share of people who give them a bad name, and that they believe that the police committing these atrocities should be prosecuted and not be allowed to hide behind their badges. I would be fucking floor if I was being associated with these other officers because we all carry a shield, and that they were making my job harder and breaking the laws that they swore to uphold. I think that hearing other officers say "This isn't okay and we want change just as much as everyone else" would go a long way.
You and me both. The only responses I've seen from a majority of the LEO I know have not made them seem like they're in this for public service, to say the least.
It's pretty disgusting.
I'm sure there have to be some good cops out there, but if they continue to let the bad cops get away with this shit... it kind of negates all the good.
You and me both. The only responses I've seen from a majority of the LEO I know have not made them seem like they're in this for public service, to say the least.
It's pretty disgusting.
I'm sure there have to be some good cops out there, but if they continue to let the bad cops get away with this shit... it kind of negates all the good.
ETA - I lost my post, I'm going to repost
I'm lucky - DH is in LE and I got a good H (he recently was able to defuse a stand off by talking to the person and ensuring no one gets hurt). So I go into defensive move because I have the "diamond in the rough" in regards to LE. But this, and previous issues, are not OK - Baltimore has no excuse - Freddie Gray was a person who did not deserve this - it's unacceptable and something needs to change. But the sad part is that I don't know what I (we) can do to make the change.
Post by rupertpenny on Apr 28, 2015 2:16:30 GMT -5
I just read an essay by Ta-Nehisi Coates that was just posted on The Atlantic. I think he has an excellent response for everyone extolling the virtures of non-violent protest. Basically, if you want to preach non-violence, lecturing the people protesting Freddy Gray's death isn't the place to start.
"When nonviolence is preached as an attempt to evade the repercussions of political brutality, it betrays itself. When nonviolence begins halfway through the war with the aggressor calling time out, it exposes itself as a ruse. When nonviolence is preached by the representatives of the state, while the state doles out heaps of violence to its citizens, it reveals itself to be a con."
Stream of consciousness. Sorry if this doesn't make sense.
Every time this happens, a black man being murdered by the police, I get more and more afraid. My heart literally hurts for these men and their family. I take this very personally. I have a black father. I have a black brother. I have a black husband. I have a black son. And every time this happens, I am reminded that the police can murder them with no consequences. I feel that even if I teach my son, as my husband was taught by his father and my brother taught by my father, how to respect the police. How to say yes sir, and no sir, how to keep his hands in plain sight at all time. But now, even if he knows and does all things, it wouldn't matter. It doesn't matter how educated we are, how much WE VOTE, how many letters we write, we are still seen as black first. And the people who have sworn to serve and protect us are the same people that are killing us.
I'm scared. I'm angry. I'm hurt. I'm tired.
I'm afraid for the safety of my family that I love so much.
I worry every day that we're not preparing our Freddie for life as a black man in this country. How can two white, upper middle class people prepare a black boy (or girl, for that matter) for what we haven't experienced? And then I think of the countless black lives taken and I know their parents prepared them well, and it didn't fucking matter. They still got shot or choked or beaten to death. Fucking beaten to death. I'm having a hard time understanding how that doesn't chill some of you to your core, but no, a goddamn CVS was set on fire, oh noooo! Not the CVS! Wherever will I buy condoms and last minute birthday cards? They severed his spine. For nothing. But who gives a fuck, because he was just a thug and he shouldn't have run and blah blah blah.
Two wrong don't make a right. Cutting a fire hose? Are you fucking kidding me? How would you feel if this was your backyard, you or your family going to work trying to protect people with their lives on the line? Have these rioters engaged in peaceful protest? Have they volunteered their time to those in their community? Have they written letters to their representatives? Voted? I doubt it.
I am not saying there has not been peaceful protests that have not been heard or underrepresented and oppressed people struggling. But in my opinion the type of people who loot a cvs and cut holes in a fire hose are not the same people who have protested through peaceful means. They are the ones calling for the rioters to stop.
Anyone who reads this and thinks riots aren't warranted can go fuck themselves.
I'm sad that I live in jersey and did not know of Phillip White. I watch the news and try to stay informed, but I never heard about it. We have nonstop coyote coverage where I can tell you the name of the one guy who was bitten. Why didn't I hear of this? Why didn't i know Phillip whites name before gbcn?
Shortly after a St. Louis County grand jury decided not to indict white police officer Darren Wilson for shooting and killing unarmed black teenager Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, Attorney General Eric Holder issued a statement condoning non-violent protest against the decision but condemning acts of vandalism. Holder’s remarks distinguished between “legitimate demonstrators” and those who “were trying to loot and trying to destroy businesses and burn things.”
“The way in which we have made progress in this country is when we have seen peaceful, nonviolent demonstrations that have led to the change that has been the most long-lasting and the most pervasive,” he said.
President Barack Obama and St. Louis County prosecutor Bob McCulloch, among others, expressed similar sentiments. The president declared that justice could not be achieved by using anger at the Michael Brown verdict “as an excuse to vandalize property,” while McCulloch urged protesters to “keep that discussion going” but to “do it in a constructive way.”
Obama's desire to avoid the destruction of lives and property is hardly surprising, and is widely shared on all sides of the divide over the Michael Brown verdict. But the idea that the historical record shows that exclusively non-violent protest has driven progressive social change in America is open to question. In a number of cases, the crisis caused by riots and property destruction has had a significant role in forcing authorities to respond to demands for political change. And even some of America’s most iconic “nonviolent” movements included moments of destruction and chaos not unlike that which occurred in Ferguson following the grand jury decision.
Many of those criticizing destructive behavior in Ferguson over the past week have cited the example of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and the civil rights movement of the 1950s and 60s as the model for nonviolent, orderly resistance. Peaceful demonstrations — sometimes in the face of violent policing and provocation — were certainly a key feature of the civil rights era. So, too, were outbreaks of violence such as the 1965 Watts Riots in Los Angeles.
While Dr. King never advocated violent and destructive behavior, he also said it would be “morally irresponsible” to condemn riots “without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society.”
“These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention,” King said in a 1968 speech. “And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard.”
Nor has it only been the victims of the Jim Crow period that have spoken in that language. The modern gay-rights movement may have won many of its recent victories at the ballot box and in the courthouse, but it was born out of an act of violent desperation when a 1969 raid a New York City gay bar, the Stonewall Inn, turned into a riot as crowds attacked the police. Today, its June 28 anniversary is celebrated annually as Gay Pride Day, and President Obama in his second inaugural speech hailed Stonewall — along with Seneca Falls (birthplace of the movement for women's rights) and civil rights marches in Selma — as milestones on America's journey to realize the dream of equality.
The battle for the eight-hour working day in the U.S. included such violent outbursts as the 1886 Haymarket riot, while a key moment in the fight for labor's right to organize trade unions came at the 1921 Battle of Blair Mountain, when thousands of striking coal miners waged open warfare on local law enforcement and the U.S. military. “Food riots” were also common throughout the U.S. during the Great Depression, fueling the social crisis that spurred the New Deal.
History offers no definitive judgment on whether these acts of violence were productive. Social movements, after all, are diffuse and complicated, and the social and political change that emerges from moments of great upheaval can rarely be attributed to any single cause. But once society has embraced changes driven by social movements, the more unpleasant and uncomfortable aspects of their history is often forgotten.
It's worth noting the advice of social scientists to avoid a simple distinction between "legitimate" movements and violent upheavals in studying the history of protest driving social change in the U.S. Writing of the civil rights movement, Stanford sociologist Doug McAdam offers an analysis that may apply more broadly: It was, he wrote, “a coalition of thousands of local efforts nationwide, spanning several decades, hundreds of discrete groups, and all manner of strategies and tactics—legal, illegal, institutional, non-institutional, violent, non-violent.”
But what shaped the place of all social movements in U.S. history was ultimately how the authorities responded to the grievances that brought the complainants out onto the streets in the first place.
I just read an essay by Ta-Nehisi Coates that was just posted on The Atlantic. I think he has an excellent response for everyone extolling the virtures of non-violent protest. Basically, if you want to preach non-violence, lecturing the people protesting Freddy Gray's death isn't the place to start.
"When nonviolence is preached as an attempt to evade the repercussions of political brutality, it betrays itself. When nonviolence begins halfway through the war with the aggressor calling time out, it exposes itself as a ruse. When nonviolence is preached by the representatives of the state, while the state doles out heaps of violence to its citizens, it reveals itself to be a con."
That is a scared mama. She is terrified of losing her son as so many moms have lost theirs before her. This is not validation of anything other than we have a major problem with police brutality and racism in this country and this woman knows it firsthand and wants to do anything she can to keep her son alive.
These posts, coupled with the comments on news sites, illustrate very clearly why there is still a problem with race in this country. I cannot even tell you how disgusting the comments on local Nashville news are. It's fucking insane. The worst part, to me, is that it's not anonymous. Any asshole can spout racist rhetoric under an assumed name -- but on Facebook news sites, people are putting their full names behind some of the most reprehensible, foul remarks I've ever seen. It's unbelievable.
That's why I don't read the comments. Those people are unhinged and they make me want to hide on an island.
Bernadine I know you are a fed. I am a contractor and just got word that my agency is closing based on reports from law enforcement and out of an "abundance of caution". I am not sure what agency you work for or if it is close but it just made me think of this thread and I hope you are safe.
Bernadine I know you are a fed. I am a contractor and just got word that my agency is closing based on reports from law enforcement and out of an "abundance of caution". I am not sure what agency you work for or if it is close but it just made me think of this thread and I hope you are safe.
Thanks for thinking of me- it hasn't formally been announced yet, but I just heard we're closing early as well.
I feel like I should use the afternoon off to DO something...but I don't know what.
Two wrong don't make a right. Cutting a fire hose? Are you fucking kidding me? How would you feel if this was your backyard, you or your family going to work trying to protect people with their lives on the line? Have these rioters engaged in peaceful protest? Have they volunteered their time to those in their community? Have they written letters to their representatives? Voted? I doubt it.
I am not saying there has not been peaceful protests that have not been heard or underrepresented and oppressed people struggling. But in my opinion the type of people who loot a cvs and cut holes in a fire hose are not the same people who have protested through peaceful means. They are the ones calling for the rioters to stop.
I am so glad you posted this.
Your statement and expressed doubt provide perfect but superficial examples of the unfair societal and systemic prejudice that black men have to overcome while addressing the injustice and brutality they're facing. You automatically assume that the rioters have not tried any other method. On top of that, do any other groups of Americans need to vote, write to their representatives, volunteer in their community or participate in any kind of protest to prove their worthiness of life, of rights with law enforcement and the judicial system, and of just being given a chance and the benefit of the doubt? I know I don't. Last year, my cousin was stopped by an officer for no reason after leaving a peaceful public forum that he organized with the police department. It saddens and angers me that people like my cousins and friends have done and continue to do the things on your list and changes in the system and society still remain unseen.
Also, I keep seeing the use of the proverb, "Two wrongs don't make a right." It's such a narrow scope of the whole issue and minimizes the experience of black people. History and current events show that it's not just one wrong that people are angry about and responding to. America has seen and inflicted a multitude of wrongs. I can't see how any group would be expected to peacefully sit, speak and wait for things to become right. Meanwhile, those of us with a privileged standpoint shouldn't judge.
Bernadine I know you are a fed. I am a contractor and just got word that my agency is closing based on reports from law enforcement and out of an "abundance of caution". I am not sure what agency you work for or if it is close but it just made me think of this thread and I hope you are safe.
Thanks for thinking of me- it hasn't formally been announced yet, but I just heard we're closing early as well.
I feel like I should use the afternoon off to DO something...but I don't know what.
Post by iammalcolmx on Apr 28, 2015 9:11:01 GMT -5
Thank you ML most of you really held it down in this thread. toledo I LOLed when you asked that poster if she was moving today. @kande818 i did a fist pump when you said " Fuck you"