MM needs to hear this (long)

[v]

I read that because a friend who quit biglaw to teach surfing in Costa Rica posted in on FB.  I know quite a few people who have quit law to live life (and I know even more who quit for a year or two to travel the world/live on a sailboat with her boyfriend/that kind of thing).

My take: as long as she's happy and she isn't calling herself retired or telling others that showers are a waste of money, good for her But also, bartending is hard and often requires long and late hours, so not a choice I'd make if I wanted to dial down!

[raangoli]

I am too type A to do something like that, but often wish that I could.

I worry about the future too much to enjoy the present. Like milsaroo said, how does she save for retirement? What if she gets sick, what about healthcare?

But yes, she's not calling herself retired. She just said "F this noise, I'm out.". And for that, I applaud her.

[Deleted]

I want to do this. This article put all kinds of funny feelings in my stomach

I often get the impression that I'mt not cut out for a traditional career. Or a traditional life, for that matter. Here I am 5 weeks into a new job wasting time online, KWIM? Will I ever find a job or career that I find so engaging and interesting that I feel like I'm truly living my life? IDK.

I think it takes a LOT more balls than I have, though. I guess I'm not as worried about her retirement since it sounds like she could probably scoop ice cream part time into her 80's or 90's. But where will she get money to travel elsewhere? I want to see the rest of the world. How can she visit her family and friends in the US? Where is she getting a work visa to move to another country? Does she not have SLs? Since she's not a resident, does the country she lives in provide healthcare (or wait, that's US isn't it? So then what?).

[Pom]

A friend of mine lived on St. John's for a few years and says it was the happiest time of her life. No judgement here.

[noodleoo]

I think I'm nearing the point of doing something like this. Well, not exactly, but I think I want out of the rat race, keeping up with the jones crap. I want an easier and happier life. If only money wasn't so damn important for living.

Man I'd love to live near the beach though.

eta: It it is so interesting especially after conversations with my boss about how if you aren't miserable, you aren't "stretching" yourself at work and you'll never be promoted. Man, she's like the opposite of what I want to be. And I believe that she's miserable!

[konapoppy]

I'm with you raangoli. I wish I had the guts to do this, but I know that my type A ness would totally get in the way. I can't let go enough. But good for her - sounds like fun!

[sicilygirl]

May 1, 2015 15:37:19 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

I think I'm nearing the point of doing something like this. Well, not exactly, but I think I want out of the rat race, keeping up with the jones crap. I want an easier and happier life. If only money wasn't so damn important for living.

Man I'd love to live near the beach though.

eta: It it is so interesting especially after conversations with my boss about how if you aren't miserable, you aren't "stretching" yourself at work and you'll never be promoted. Man, she's like the opposite of what I want to be. And I believe that she's miserable!

This is the most depressing thing ever.

[noodleoo]

May 1, 2015 15:42:40 GMT -5 sicilygirl said:

May 1, 2015 15:37:19 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

I think I'm nearing the point of doing something like this. Well, not exactly, but I think I want out of the rat race, keeping up with the jones crap. I want an easier and happier life. If only money wasn't so damn important for living.

Man I'd love to live near the beach though.

eta: It it is so interesting especially after conversations with my boss about how if you aren't miserable, you aren't "stretching" yourself at work and you'll never be promoted. Man, she's like the opposite of what I want to be. And I believe that she's miserable!

This is the most depressing thing ever.

Yeah, one of the many reasons I'm so over my job. 

[kadams767]

I definitely have these same feelings sometimes. Honestly, I know that eventually I will be happier with a "menial" job and that's what I plan to do at some point. Unfortunately, in order to fund that, I need to save up from my current rat race job so that I'm not eating cat food and sleeping in a cardboard box while I make $9/hr.

[oswin]

May 1, 2015 15:34:37 GMT -5 @buckybells said:

I want to do this. This article put all kinds of funny feelings in my stomach

I often get the impression that I'mt not cut out for a traditional career. Or a traditional life, for that matter. Here I am 5 weeks into a new job wasting time online, KWIM? Will I ever find a job or career that I find so engaging and interesting that I feel like I'm truly living my life? IDK.

I think it takes a LOT more balls than I have, though. I guess I'm not as worried about her retirement since it sounds like she could probably scoop ice cream part time into her 80's or 90's. But where will she get money to travel elsewhere? I want to see the rest of the world. How can she visit her family and friends in the US? Where is she getting a work visa to move to another country? Does she not have SLs? Since she's not a resident, does the country she lives in provide healthcare (or wait, that's US isn't it? So then what?).

I think a lot of people don't enjoy the traditional career, but feel forced into it for any number of reasons (wanting stability, having debt, wanting to keep up with the Jones', etc). We just had a friend from out of town over for dinner yesterday and he said that at 31 after 6 years of a real job he wanted to retire - or at least not keep doing the same sort of work he's doing. DH and I mostly like our jobs, but we're also trying to figure out how we can retire or at least significantly cut back our income requirements much earlier than usual because we're also getting fed up with the expectations present in a traditional career. We don't want to do nothing, but we want more freedom and flexibility than we currently have. We don't plan to move to a tropical island though.

[oswin]

May 1, 2015 16:29:04 GMT -5 milsaroo said:

May 1, 2015 16:17:14 GMT -5 oswin said:

I think a lot of people don't enjoy the traditional career, but feel forced into it for any number of reasons (wanting stability, having debt, wanting to keep up with the Jones', etc).



DH and I mostly like our jobs, but we're also trying to figure out how we can retire or at least significantly cut back our income requirements much earlier than usual because we're also getting fed up with the expectations present in a traditional career. We don't want to do nothing, but we want more freedom and flexibility than we currently have. We don't plan to move to a tropical island though.

I had a conversation with a friend's parents a few months ago who don't understand the younger generation "not wanting to work." They said something along the lines of "we weren't happy but you do what you have to do to get the job done and support your family."

I didn't want to try to argue with them but I wanted to tell them I WANT TO BE HAPPY NOW. I cannot fathom putting 30+ years into one job/employer and all I'm living for is retirement. I want to shape my life enough now to find a work/life balance that eventually reaches a point where I'm not working for the money out of need (which I think goes along with the bolded).

Interesting, about how the older generation thinks about this. I think a couple of things have changed in recent years that are contributing to people chafing at traditional careers. One, I think expectations of employees are higher now than ever. I feel like we're constantly hearing about (and experiencing) things like 50 hour workweeks being normal and people not taking their time off - this poll says full-time workers average 47 hour workweeks in 2014, with half of salaried workers working 50 or more hours. Two, and along the same lines, there's often an expectation at jobs these days to stay connected during non-working hours, since technology has made it so easy to read email at all hours of the day. And I think these things lead to burnout much quicker than it used to with 9-5 jobs that you could leave at the workplace.

Then again, maybe we're just lazy and want it all. I mean, I only work about 40 hours a week and rarely check work email outside of my working hours, and I'm still burning out. But that burnout might also be due to having two working parents and a kid (and being pregnant).

[M]

"If you're constantly thinking you need a vacation, maybe what you really need is a new life."

Yup that's what happened to H and I. So we made a change, got different/easier/less demanding jobs, picked up and moved. It's not exactly island life but damn, 40 hr/wks feels like we're on vacation every weekend.

The entire 1.5 year that we lived in the same town as our closest friends, we never once saw them and barely spoke. We are now making plans for memorial weekend! I'm so excited to see them!

And our jobs sends us places. H's job is thinking about sending him to (somewhere in SE Asia, I can't remember) for training and I can join him if I want. During my mid year review the other day, my supervisors talked about sending me to the countries I cover...and H gets to go with me. I am staying at another supervisors home cat sitting because she's in Africa for 3 months. I can honestly say there hasn't been one day that I've dreaded going into work.

Sure I miss being able to splurge on frivolous things but it's so worth all this free time. I caught myself asking supervisor if I worked on something while on the plane this weekend if I could count the hours. Luckily he said no lol.

[noodleoo]

May 1, 2015 17:05:00 GMT -5 oswin said:

May 1, 2015 16:29:04 GMT -5 milsaroo said:

I had a conversation with a friend's parents a few months ago who don't understand the younger generation "not wanting to work." They said something along the lines of "we weren't happy but you do what you have to do to get the job done and support your family."

I didn't want to try to argue with them but I wanted to tell them I WANT TO BE HAPPY NOW. I cannot fathom putting 30+ years into one job/employer and all I'm living for is retirement. I want to shape my life enough now to find a work/life balance that eventually reaches a point where I'm not working for the money out of need (which I think goes along with the bolded).

Interesting, about how the older generation thinks about this. I think a couple of things have changed in recent years that are contributing to people chafing at traditional careers. One, I think expectations of employees are higher now than ever. I feel like we're constantly hearing about (and experiencing) things like 50 hour workweeks being normal and people not taking their time off - this poll says full-time workers average 47 hour workweeks in 2014, with half of salaried workers working 50 or more hours. Two, and along the same lines, there's often an expectation at jobs these days to stay connected during non-working hours, since technology has made it so easy to read email at all hours of the day. And I think these things lead to burnout much quicker than it used to with 9-5 jobs that you could leave at the workplace.

Then again, maybe we're just lazy and want it all. I mean, I only work about 40 hours a week and rarely check work email outside of my working hours, and I'm still burning out. But that burnout might also be due to having two working parents and a kid (and being pregnant).

I 100% agree with your first paragraph.  I hate that my job pretty much expects you to work 50+ hour weeks.  And they expect you to check/reply to email in off hours.  I was moved to a team that requires night and weekend work and I had no choice in the matter.  It's insane.  No way I would have taken that job if that was what I was originally offered.  H's job is the same way.  And we can't even WFH even though I all I need is a laptop and Internet to do my job, so I'm still stuck commuting 2 or more hours a day.  Plus H and I both work full time (and couldn't afford a house on one salary) so we have no time to cook, clean, etc etc.  I think life now is very different than it was a generation ago before Internet and smart phones.  

[Balki.Bartokomous]

May 1, 2015 15:22:34 GMT -5 milsaroo said:

However, I can't help but think:
1) I have SLs I have to pay off
2) What about health insurance?
3) Can she save for retirement? Honestly, if she's living this type of lifestyle she clearly doesn't need much to be happy, and that's fine, but what about the stuff she does need?

Those were my thoughts, too. I'd love to see her budget.

Of course money isn't everything. But quite frankly, this lady's life is either a luxury or she's probably not thinking about the future. Either she was able to save up enough $ to sustain this lifestyle because she had an above average salary for all of those years, or she can't truly afford her lifestyle. On $10/hr she has to be forgoing something, and I'm betting it's retirement and/or insurance.

I could see DH & I doing this someday, but honestly I think we'd only be able to do it because we've both had such well-paying jobs & saved so much.

[Deleted]

Meh. I like my corporate job. I like not being poor.

SBIL lives in USVI. He has a job in medical field and loves living there. We haven't been to visit him yet.

[rubytue]

I dream of this. I watch Caribbean Life on HGTV way too much. But, I'm chicken.

H spent most of his 20s being a traveling bum. Not really, but worked a job that had him traveling all over the country, earning peanuts (as 1099 and not understanding that either), working nights waxing and buffing floors in malls. And when he was "home," he lived in a tent on some property by the lake his parents owned. Because of that, he feels his has that low income, low responsibility life. And he now enjoys his toys (namely boat). So he does not romanticize that life.

So, instead we save and dream of living that again, when I'm 57 and have a pension to help.

[v]

May 1, 2015 17:52:16 GMT -5 @kcpokergal said:

Meh. I like my corporate job. I like not being poor.

This definitely is a different strokes/different folks thing.  My job is corporate, but it is pretty cushy.  Cushier than working those same hours as a bartender, certainly.

When I was looking at jobs recently, opportunities presented themselves on an island down there.  I think it would have been pretty easy for me to be hired, hours would be the same as what I'm working now, and I'd actually earn considerably more (plus big expat housing allowance, plus lots of tax benefits).  I thought about it for a bit, but turned it down.  Sure, it would be nice to live somewhere with fantastic weather, but if I am going to live on a small island, I'll stick to the one I already live on and love  It isn't for everyone, but nor is St. John.

[tacosforlife]

May 1, 2015 17:46:10 GMT -5 Balki.Bartokomous said:

May 1, 2015 15:22:34 GMT -5 milsaroo said:

However, I can't help but think:
1) I have SLs I have to pay off
2) What about health insurance?
3) Can she save for retirement? Honestly, if she's living this type of lifestyle she clearly doesn't need much to be happy, and that's fine, but what about the stuff she does need?

Those were my thoughts, too. I'd love to see her budget.

Of course money isn't everything. But quite frankly, this lady's life is either a luxury or she's probably not thinking about the future. Either she was able to save up enough $ to sustain this lifestyle because she had an above average salary for all of those years, or she can't truly afford her lifestyle. On $10/hr she has to be forgoing something, and I'm betting it's retirement and/or insurance.

I could see DH & I doing this someday, but honestly I think we'd only be able to do it because we've both had such well-paying jobs & saved so much.

MARRY ME.

[spunkarella]

oswin I can relate to a lot of what you wrote. I don't have any interest in moving to the Caribbean, but my current dream is to figure out how to keep my approximate current salary while working less/at something I'm more passionate about (or becoming more passionate about what I do). I would consider that a major "promotion."

[Balki.Bartokomous]

May 1, 2015 19:02:18 GMT -5 tacosforlife said:

May 1, 2015 17:46:10 GMT -5 Balki.Bartokomous said:

Those were my thoughts, too. I'd love to see her budget.

Of course money isn't everything. But quite frankly, this lady's life is either a luxury or she's probably not thinking about the future. Either she was able to save up enough $ to sustain this lifestyle because she had an above average salary for all of those years, or she can't truly afford her lifestyle. On $10/hr she has to be forgoing something, and I'm betting it's retirement and/or insurance.

I could see DH & I doing this someday, but honestly I think we'd only be able to do it because we've both had such well-paying jobs & saved so much.

MARRY ME.

Sigh. Maybe one day we will meet. If only I hadn't gotten sick that day.  (wilted)

[insominac]

I can't believe she gave up a nearly six figure journalist job. I'm curious how long her scooping will last.

[LoveTrains]

May 1, 2015 20:13:16 GMT -5 insominac said:

I can't believe she gave up a nearly six figure journalist job. I'm curious how long her scooping will last.

Right? Those can't be easy to come by!

H wants to do this, and frankly, I wouldn't mind it, either. But I figure we will suffer along for a while longer until we can save more and just retire early. 

[genet313]

May 1, 2015 15:27:34 GMT -5 raangoli said:

I am too type A to do something like that, but often wish that I could.

I worry about the future too much to enjoy the present. Like milsaroo said, how does she save for retirement? What if she gets sick, what about healthcare?

But yes, she's not calling herself retired. She just said "F this noise, I'm out.". And for that, I applaud her.

Exactly this.  Although, surprisingly, even moving out of NYC into the suburbs has resulted in me slowing my life down considerably.  I was back in the city today and while I was so excited to be back there...I could feel the stress around me (even in TriBeCa, surrounded by well to do SAHMs, there was stress).  Not that there isn't stress in my suburb, but it's very different.   

So I don't think the author had to go quite so extreme to escape/unwind, nor do most people have to do that.  

[Deleted]

May 1, 2015 20:56:27 GMT -5 scm1011 said:

May 1, 2015 16:21:09 GMT -5 Stan said:

I bartended by the beach in college. I hated it!

I know that's not the point, but I really did.

Yup. I bartended for 7 years before I got a "real job", and I still fill in at the same bar when they need extra help (as recent as last week). Bartending, waiting tables, scooping ice cream, etc. is not an easier way of life IMO. I find my bar shifts more soul sucking than my finance day job ( that I hate). If she's happier, good for her, but I'm skeptical that she gave up the benefits of her well-paying job and took on thankless, low-paying work and is as blissful as she proclaims.

Eh, it probably depends on the culture of the place she works. I worked some pretty fast paced serving jobs back in the day, but if you aren't really out to make money and it's a smaller, slower paced place... I can see how it would be somewhat enjoyable to just be able to chat with your customers and not always be running around. I imagine an island bar is less crazy than a bar in an American city.

That said, I sort of agree. I don't know that scooping ice cream would be fulfilling for me either. When I was in Mexico like 12 years ago I met an expat woman who moved to Mexico to open a horseback riding tourist operation. She spent her days leading tourists on rides on the beach. She was from America and took off for an easier paced and more fun life. I always though that was really living the dream. 

[heliocentric]

Maybe I'm greedy or a cynic, but my SIL moved to the USVI for a job that paid much more than $10/hr. and said it wasn't all it's cracked up to be. She had to go through her room with one of those electric mosquito racquets every night. The locals weren't terribly friendly (Someone actually pushed their jeep into the ocean on night! And SIL is a super sweet person!). Food is really expensive. Housing was also expensive. Rats lived in the ceiling of her office. And a whole host of other things.

So...good for this woman, but I'm not sure it's for me.

[zoidberg]

May 1, 2015 20:56:27 GMT -5 scm1011 said:

May 1, 2015 16:21:09 GMT -5 Stan said:

I bartended by the beach in college. I hated it!

I know that's not the point, but I really did.

Yup. I bartended for 7 years before I got a "real job", and I still fill in at the same bar when they need extra help (as recent as last week). Bartending, waiting tables, scooping ice cream, etc. is not an easier way of life IMO. I find my bar shifts more soul sucking than my finance day job ( that I hate). If she's happier, good for her, but I'm skeptical that she gave up the benefits of her well-paying job and took on thankless, low-paying work and is as blissful as she proclaims.

I agree. I have worked my share of menial jobs and I find them excruciating. I need to feel challenged or I get all squirrely. I'm like a border collie or something. Plus, I like having money.

[babsbunny]

I lost all respect for this article when I read that she was expediting her passport to go to St. John... a US Territory! Maybe she needs to go back to Yale!

[Cicero]

May 1, 2015 15:34:37 GMT -5 @buckybells said:

Where is she getting a work visa to move to another country? Does she not have SLs? Since she's not a resident, does the country she lives in provide healthcare (or wait, that's US isn't it? So then what?).

It's a US territory so you don't need a work permit anymore than you would if you wanted to move to another state. I'm not sure off the top of my head if people in US territories have access to the healthcare exchanges, but they do have access to Medicare and Medicaid so it wouldn't surprise me.

ETA: Just looked it up. USVI is not subject to the ACA. From a cursory search it seems as if a personal health insurance policy might be hard to get. So my guess is she doesn't have health insurance.

[Deleted]

May 2, 2015 7:49:57 GMT -5 Cicero said:

May 1, 2015 15:34:37 GMT -5 @buckybells said:

Where is she getting a work visa to move to another country? Does she not have SLs? Since she's not a resident, does the country she lives in provide healthcare (or wait, that's US isn't it? So then what?).

It's a US territory so you don't need a work permit anymore than you would if you wanted to move to another state. I'm not sure off the top of my head if people in US territories have access to the healthcare exchanges, but they do have access to Medicare and Medicaid so it wouldn't surprise me.

ETA: Just looked it up. USVI is not subject to the ACA. From a cursory search it seems as if a personal health insurance policy might be hard to get. So my guess is she doesn't have health insurance.

Oh, I meant the part at the end where she was talking about going to Europe and her friends who spend 6 months here and there doing different things. I know it's possible, I just don't get HOW. It's not that easy to just go get a job in another country KWIM?

[drloretta]

I could never do this. I would be so bored