Post by irishbride2 on May 26, 2015 20:42:59 GMT -5
I skimmed but in my experience this varies greatly between enlisted and officer. My officer friends are "eh" about most things and can criticize the military. My enlisted friends, not so much. They are more "you don't understand, you civilian."
EloiseWeenie, my exH and I PCS'd to J'ville for his lat move/reup. That was his last duty station before he got out a couple years ago. We hated J'ville (New River), but really enjoyed Wilmington.
My exH feels the same. It was about the brotherhood for him. The politics and a lot of the other crap, meh. He played the tuba.
I love Wilmington so much. I lived there for 8 years, before I moved to Jacksonville. It took awhile for me to find my groove here, but I have grown to love it. I hate the good byes, but there are a lot of amazing people here. We'll probably be here forever.
All of my grandparents served but neither of my parents. My husband's parents weren't military either. I'm not sure why my husband was motivated to go to the Naval Academy and commission. He's been active duty 13 years now (17 if you count his 4 years in Annapolis) and we've been married 12.
I do think there is a divide. However, I am a liberal democrat who thinks I have successfully traversed the "support the troops and not necessarily the war" situation. I absolutely support my husband and if I've learned anything by being a military spouse it is that I'm happy so many wonderful people are protecting our country. I do think that there is a general feeling from the public that military members are just poor kids/minorities who didn't have any other choices and who are the "guard dogs". I know that there are statistics on that, and that yes, generally speaking recruiters have better luck in rural/poor areas, but my experience has been totally different. My husband and I both have graduate degees from great schools. My family, mostly ivy league type, has supported my husband and I 100%. No NIMBY syndrome whatsoever.
That said, I do think there is a military civilian divide. But for me it is more of a dissolving trust between government (mostly civilian) and the military. This blog post was recirculating yesterday and I know a lot of my friends agreed with it. I thought it might offer some perspective to this discussion: rebekahsanderlin.com/bitter-party-of-one/
Now that I'm overseas, I have lots of friends who are military wives. I love them dearly but they always speak in acronyms that could as well be Chinese to me. I need a military-civilian dictionary.
That has nothing to do with this thread, but I'm seeing acronyms. Carry on -
I 100% agree with Reeve that we should be doing much better for our vets. I feel like we have enough money for this as a country, it's just not allocated towards vets. Am I wrong about that?
How would people in the military like to be supported by civilians generally? How would they like their service to be acknowledged, if at all? Also, is there a better way for civilians to criticize what they see to be problems with how the government uses the military so that military people themselves don't feel criticized?
Now that I'm overseas, I have lots of friends who are military wives. I love them dearly but they always speak in acronyms that could as well be Chinese to me. I need a military-civilian dictionary.
That has nothing to do with this thread, but I'm seeing acronyms. Carry on -
Start at about 1:30 on this video. Cracks me up every time.
The UK has a fuckton less vets though so it's decidedly easier to care for them.
The UK has roughly the same number of vets as a proportion of the population as the US. The UK has about 3.8 million vets with a population of about 61 million people, while the US has about 21 million vets in a population of about 319 million. That's 6.8% of the population in the US and 6.2% of the population in the UK.
The UK has a fuckton less vets though so it's decidedly easier to care for them.
Conditions were a lot different when the UK had a much larger standing military with a much greater presence across the world and in those days, the situation was fairly similar to here.
its true we have less vets - and less people. I think the US could afford to take care of the troops if it was a priority for people...but its just not.
If the US spent a fraction of its tank/plane/toys for grown men budget on taking care of the troops, it would be a nonissue. But that means that some Senator doesn't get to brag about the jobs created and the money flowing by building those things in his state. And half those things, the military doesn't even want.
its true we have less vets - and less people. I think the US could afford to take care of the troops if it was a priority for people...but its just not.
If the US spent a fraction of its tank/plane/toys for grown men budget on taking care of the troops, it would be a nonissue. But that means that some Senator doesn't get to brag about the jobs created and the money flowing by building those things in his state. And half those things, the military doesn't even want.
How would people in the military like to be supported by civilians generally? How would they like their service to be acknowledged, if at all? Also, is there a better way for civilians to criticize what they see to be problems with how the government uses the military so that military people themselves don't feel criticized?
I lurk to get news I don't get elsewhere and typically don't read comments but being active duty I was interested. I would rather not be thanked. For me, I haven't really done anything different than I did as a civilian doing the same job and the general public didn't thank me for that. My husband who did 4 tours looks at it as lip service and he's lost so many guys that it feels wrong to be thanked anyway. He feels guilty for coming home. He'd rather no one say anything but we're both gracious when approached because there's no need for us tone rude about it. I don't typically get upset when people say the military shouldn't be in X place. I'm no military or political analyst so I don't know if we should or shouldn't be there either. What I know is that my job as a medical provider is to keep as much of the fighting force operational as possible regardless of where I am. I think it's just frustrating to hear it over and over from people who would never be willing to put our shoes on their feet or can't understand why we chose to serve no matter how we explain it. I really think the divide and animosity my younger peers feel comes from that place of frustration.
My mom was a great example of the divide when I had my wrist operated on. We were coming out of the hospital and I was complaining about being in a wheelchair when I have 2 legs that function and she didn't get how I was so embarrassed or why. She saw another patient getting out of a shuttle cart we have and he had a walker and no legs. My mom is a bleeding heart and it killed her. Despite all the images she had seen we are from a pretty non-military town so it wasn't real to her until that moment. I can only imagine a vast majority of our society is that way. Those guys go to military hospitals and VA's for care. The average citizen doesn't see a wounded vet everyday out in the street. They're like these people that are only real on the Internet and in movies. That's probably the other thing that is so frustrating. We have all this first hand experience with loss because of Afghanistan and Iraq. For some people "we don't think we should be there" sounds a lot like "your sacrifice was for nothing and wasn't appreciated."
If the US spent a fraction of its tank/plane/toys for grown men budget on taking care of the troops, it would be a nonissue. But that means that some Senator doesn't get to brag about the jobs created and the money flowing by building those things in his state. And half those things, the military doesn't even want.
We love planes that don't work.
. Yeah I hear a lot of grumbling from motor-t guys about vehicles that never work too.
Post by sunshine608 on May 27, 2015 8:49:54 GMT -5
I grew up in a military family ( dad,uncles everybody) and so did my husband and we live in an area that heavily retired military. I was pretty indoctrinated growing up military and I can see the difference in my everyday life between the civilian world and the military/ex-military world.
I'll never forget going to a conference at a large Atlanta hotel a few years ago and hearing the National Anthem or Pledge ( I can't remember). Only one other person stopped /acknowledged it. I stopped, stood still and had my hand on my heart before I even knew what I was doing and I made eye contact with the other guy- knew he was military related and that's was the day I realized how big a difference it made. Growing up on military bases I can't imagine not stopping but in the rest of American it didn't seem to matter. I can only imagine if I was a Vet or something how I would have taken it.
The UK has a fuckton less vets though so it's decidedly easier to care for them.
The UK has roughly the same number of vets as a proportion of the population as the US. The UK has about 3.8 million vets with a population of about 61 million people, while the US has about 21 million vets in a population of about 319 million. That's 6.8% of the population in the US and 6.2% of the population in the UK.
How would people in the military like to be supported by civilians generally? How would they like their service to be acknowledged, if at all? Also, is there a better way for civilians to criticize what they see to be problems with how the government uses the military so that military people themselves don't feel criticized?
I lurk to get news I don't get elsewhere and typically don't read comments but being active duty I was interested. I would rather not be thanked. For me, I haven't really done anything different than I did as a civilian doing the same job and the general public didn't thank me for that. My husband who did 4 tours looks at it as lip service and he's lost so many guys that it feels wrong to be thanked anyway. He feels guilty for coming home. He'd rather no one say anything but we're both gracious when approached because there's no need for us tone rude about it. I don't typically get upset when people say the military shouldn't be in X place. I'm no military or political analyst so I don't know if we should or shouldn't be there either. What I know is that my job as a medical provider is to keep as much of the fighting force operational as possible regardless of where I am. I think it's just frustrating to hear it over and over from people who would never be willing to put our shoes on their feet or can't understand why we chose to serve no matter how we explain it. I really think the divide and animosity my younger peers feel comes from that place of frustration.
My mom was a great example of the divide when I had my wrist operated on. We were coming out of the hospital and I was complaining about being in a wheelchair when I have 2 legs that function and she didn't get how I was so embarrassed or why. She saw another patient getting out of a shuttle cart we have and he had a walker and no legs. My mom is a bleeding heart and it killed her. Despite all the images she had seen we are from a pretty non-military town so it wasn't real to her until that moment. I can only imagine a vast majority of our society is that way. Those guys go to military hospitals and VA's for care. The average citizen doesn't see a wounded vet everyday out in the street. They're like these people that are only real on the Internet and in movies. That's probably the other thing that is so frustrating. We have all this first hand experience with loss because of Afghanistan and Iraq. For some people "we don't think we should be there" sounds a lot like "your sacrifice was for nothing and wasn't appreciated."
I'm done rambling.
I'm glad you shared this. It's nice to have new people around.
I can only speak for myself but I personally don't think about military as this cloudy figment of film or internet. I am very aware that there are actual people out there as we speak, everyday. And the images of wounded vets that you are talking about, I absolutely agree that those shouldn't be tucked away somewhere. We should interact with one another somehow, our media sources should stop whitewashing everything, and we, as a country, should be taking better care of our veterans. I feel like lots of people would agree with that though and I feel like that there are powers-that-be, beyond people actually fighting and the wary civilians, who have decided those things are not in our best interest, or not in someone's best interest.
I'm honestly sorry that "we don't think we should be there" sounds like "your sacrifice wasn't appreciated." I don't know any other way to express how I feel about some of these decisions, but the sacrifice is most definitely appreciated. This particular "gap" is not one I know how to bridge. In my mind, people in the military are putting up the ultimate sacrifice really. I don't like to think of them being put in dangerous situations that are unnecessary for that very reason that they are people sacrificing for us and they have children, and parents and friends who love them and deserve not to have that happen. It makes me really...sad that so many people think no one cares what they are going through.
I don't know if that made sense. I'm glad we are having this discussion though.