It feels we have been having this same conversation for years now, right?
But SCOTUS is the silver bullet.
But, then, no one here voted for Obama in 2008 when he was anti-gay marriage. Right? There were plenty of 3rd party candidates that were pro gay marriage.
eta: not trying to sound like a bitch. But, as I'm going to bring up several times between now and the election, I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place. It's not as simple as saying something like gay marriage or pro-choice protections trumps everything else. It's pretty fucking important to me, hence the reason I'm undecided, but I also happen to feel that a liberal fiscal policy is screwing future generations so hard that no one will have the money for a wedding anyway, gay or otherwise.
There are several on the board that this is their one issue...appointments.
It's not as simple as saying something like gay marriage or pro-choice protections trumps everything else. It's pretty fucking important to me, hence the reason I'm undecided, but I also happen to feel that a liberal fiscal policy is screwing future generations so hard that no one will have the money for a wedding anyway, gay or otherwise.
I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place. It's not as simple as saying something like gay marriage or pro-choice protections trumps everything else. It's pretty fucking important to me, hence the reason I'm undecided, but I also happen to feel that a liberal fiscal policy is screwing future generations so hard that no one will have the money for a wedding anyway, gay or otherwise.
It feels we have been having this same conversation for years now, right?
But SCOTUS is the silver bullet.
But, then, no one here voted for Obama in 2008 when he was anti-gay marriage. Right? There were plenty of 3rd party candidates that were pro gay marriage.
eta: not trying to sound like a bitch. But, as I'm going to bring up several times between now and the election, I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place. It's not as simple as saying something like gay marriage or pro-choice protections trumps everything else. It's pretty fucking important to me, hence the reason I'm undecided, but I also happen to feel that a liberal fiscal policy is screwing future generations so hard that no one will have the money for a wedding anyway, gay or otherwise.
I didn't vote for Obama in '08, so perhaps I am a poor example (I voted for a 3rd party because I live in a very solidly blue state and have the luxury of doing so) but this is a terrible analogy.
LGBT rights is not just about marriage. In fact, the distinction between fully inclusive civil unions and civil marriages is pretty small to me (for example, if Obama had supported same-sex marriage it would not have impacted my decision to vote 3rd party) on the scale of the things that matter to me most in the category of national LGBT issues. Obama as a candidate supported a full range of very comprehensive pro-LGBT policies, including: full civil unions; adoption rights/2nd parent adoptions; anti-discrimination in hiring, public accommodations, and healthcare; LGBT-inclusive hate crimes legislation; protections for LGBT youth in schools/anti-bullying; immigration parity for same-sex couples. (Whether he delivered on this counts is an essay for another time.)
How is this even a little bit the same as Romney or Ryan who, between the two of them, oppose or DOUBLY oppose literally every single issue within the category of issues affecting the LGBT community?
The same exercise could be done for any "single" issue voter. It is so rarely about ONE policy but rather a range of policies in a particular category. Hell, LGBT policies are not even the #1 thing that distinguishes the candidates I vote for from the candidates I don't vote for, but make no mistake about it, even if I were an LGBT single-issue voter the issue I would vote based on is NOT gay marriage by itself.
Do not give me this won't have enough money for a wedding bullshit.
My legal marriage cost $75 (and I suspect that's high given the COL of the city we were married in.)
Not being counted as legally married by the federal government has cost me thousands of dollars.
Having to draw up expensive legal documents to protect your family and assets in a time of crisis? (That cannot, for the record, usually mirror what automatically and much less expensively come with a marriage license.) Expensive.
Not being able to access your partner's health insurance (or paying HUGE taxes on the cost of that insurance if you are even allowed to access it)? Expensive.
Being fired from your job because you're unfortunate to live in a state where it's legal to fire someone based on sexual orientation or gender identity? Really fucking expensive.
I get that the economy sucks and that people are hurting financially. Welcome to my world. To say that the alleviation of everyone else's economic problems and hardships has to come at the expense of some of the most economically and socially disadvantaged families in our country because the ONE candidate who conservatives think can save the economy happens to hate our guts just cannot be an answer I am ok with.
Well, sure GLBT rights are about more than just marriage. However, without scrolling back through, which others were brought up thus far in the thread? I don't think any. So I was just meeting people where they were, disliking this or that candidate for their opposition to gay marriage.
On a semi-related note, I'd love to read a good breakdown of proposed "anti-bullying" supports. As the parent of a child with autism, we've already had minor brushes with bullying, and I expect more to come, but, genuinely curious -- what can the federal government do?
I feel like it's an awareness/compassion issue, which is not really something that can be legislated. For my part, I'm getting ready to "out" our family situation on FB and throw together an essay and maybe cheesy video to tell our story and ask parents to teach their kids compassion, yada yada.
To say that the alleviation of everyone else's economic problems and hardships has to come at the expense of some of the most economically and socially disadvantaged families in our country because the ONE candidate who conservatives think can save the economy happens to hate our guts just cannot be an answer I am ok with.
Do not give me this won't have enough money for a wedding bullshit.
My legal marriage cost $75 (and I suspect that's high given the COL of the city we were married in.)
Not being counted as legally married by the federal government has cost me thousands of dollars.
Having to draw up expensive legal documents to protect your family and assets in a time of crisis? (That cannot, for the record, usually mirror what automatically and much less expensively come with a marriage license.) Expensive.
Not being able to access your partner's health insurance (or paying HUGE taxes on the cost of that insurance if you are even allowed to access it)? Expensive.
Being fired from your job because you're unfortunate to live in a state where it's legal to fire someone based on sexual orientation or gender identity? Really fucking expensive.
I get that the economy sucks and that people are hurting financially. Welcome to my world. To say that the alleviation of everyone else's economic problems and hardships has to come at the expense of some of the most economically and socially disadvantaged families in our country because the ONE candidate who conservatives think can save the economy happens to hate our guts just cannot be an answer I am ok with.
Llama, it was a joke. I didn't intend to diminish the importance of the legal and financial ramifications of true marriage. I get that, and I'm with you. Which is why I'm undecided on this issue.
My point is that financial crisis on a national scale is also an important issue. I don't want to be Greece.
Do not give me this won't have enough money for a wedding bullshit.
My legal marriage cost $75 (and I suspect that's high given the COL of the city we were married in.)
Not being counted as legally married by the federal government has cost me thousands of dollars.
Having to draw up expensive legal documents to protect your family and assets in a time of crisis? (That cannot, for the record, usually mirror what automatically and much less expensively come with a marriage license.) Expensive.
Not being able to access your partner's health insurance (or paying HUGE taxes on the cost of that insurance if you are even allowed to access it)? Expensive.
Being fired from your job because you're unfortunate to live in a state where it's legal to fire someone based on sexual orientation or gender identity? Really fucking expensive.
I get that the economy sucks and that people are hurting financially. Welcome to my world. To say that the alleviation of everyone else's economic problems and hardships has to come at the expense of some of the most economically and socially disadvantaged families in our country because the ONE candidate who conservatives think can save the economy happens to hate our guts just cannot be an answer I am ok with.
Llama, it was a joke. I didn't intend to diminish the importance of the legal and financial ramifications of true marriage. I get that, and I'm with you. Which is why I'm undecided on this issue.
My point is that financial crisis on a national scale is also an important issue. I don't want to be Greece.
I was actually going to defend you for making a joke, but the way things have been going around here, I thought, well, maybe she wasn't. So I decided to let you speak for yourself, LOL.
Llama, it was a joke. I didn't intend to diminish the importance of the legal and financial ramifications of true marriage. I get that, and I'm with you. Which is why I'm undecided on this issue.
My point is that financial crisis on a national scale is also an important issue. I don't want to be Greece.
I was actually going to defend you for making a joke, but the way things have been going around here, I thought, well, maybe she wasn't. So I decided to let you speak for yourself, LOL.
yep. I feel that I usually over explain here, but when I don't, I regret it. :/
Llama, I have a gay family member and I'd love nothing more than seeing her marry her girlfriend.
Sorry, should have known that was a joke. I feel like I am beating a dead horse on the Obama doesn't support gay marriage thing and on the LGBT issues = marriage equality thing. I don't blame you for chiming in as if it was, because that is really what people try to make it into in these endless Ryan threads. It's actually precisely because marriage is not the only issue that I think Ryan is so awful. I mean, pretty much all potential Republican nominees would have been against marriage - the fact that Ryan is also against adoption, hate crimes, and open military service is disturbing to me. These are issues that will come up.
On the anti-bullying side, I am not sure there is much the federal government can do directly but it does seem that states may need some guidance in order to maintain consistency on what is tolerated and what is not. I am a big government commie pinko so I think there should be consistency... obviously conservatives will disagree with me on this. Using the LGBT issue as a stand-in for targeted groups of kids in general (and recognizing that targeting comes in many forms and that it obviously transcends the boundaries of just this one topic) - why should LGBT youth in some states be subject to harassment from their peers and in many cases teachers and administrators just because that state has no protections for sexual orientation and gender identity in their education laws? Research shows (I will dig this up if people are actually interested) that outcomes for LGBT youth and responses from teachers and school administrators are greatly improved by specifying that LGBT students are protected from bullying under the school's policy. I feel the same way about discrimination against students and feel that LGBT students should be included in the list of protected categories from discrimination in schools (along with gender and race, among others.)
I'm sorry to hear your son is having issues with bullying in school. I'm sure you are doing everything you can, but if you haven't already I would keep after the school about their responsibility to ensure that students with disabilities don't face bullying and harassment. I am pretty sure there are federal laws against that, and in my experience working at a school nothing motivates faster than the legitimate thread of a lawsuit. I also love your idea to put a personal face to the issue.