I heard back from the owner of the company

[2curlydogs]

treedimensional - would appreciate your input on whether he's blowing smoke up my ass or not.

Here's the meat of it.

"It seems the job description was the main source of confusion, as it indicated reducing upright growth to promote horizontal growth, hence the more substantial central leader reduction than you expected. This is a pruning process we use in the nursery all the time on virtually every tree to stimulate horizontal growth which gives the tree a fuller character for sale ability. The center leader is retrained in young trees quite easily."

So.... yea? Nay?

On the one hand, it sounds plausible, in that I know you do this to some perennials and shrubs to achieve the same sort of effect.

On the other, it doesn't explain why no other pruning was done throughout the tree. It also doesn't explain the half-assed initial job on the maple.

But I'm not about to go destroying them across social media if this is, in fact, a legit practice.

[nomad100]

What did he say about why they were there in the first place?

[2curlydogs]

May 29, 2015 20:17:45 GMT -5 nomad100 said:

What did he say about why they were there in the first place?

"Combination of communication issues" that resulted in a perfect storm of idiocy, which is "not our typical way of doing business or providing client satisfaction."

ETA: which TOTALLY makes me want to be like "I can help you with that." Since business analysis is part of what I do for a living. And "I can also re-design your website to make it 'not suck'." LOL

[mrsd2006]

Have you paid them anything since they weren't even supposed to be there yet?

[treedimensional]

May 29, 2015 20:09:21 GMT -5 2curlydogs said:

treedimensional - would appreciate your input on whether he's blowing smoke up my ass or not.

Here's the meat of it.

"It seems the job description was the main source of confusion, as it indicated reducing upright growth to promote horizontal growth, hence the more substantial central leader reduction than you expected. This is a pruning process we use in the nursery all the time on virtually every tree to stimulate horizontal growth which gives the tree a fuller character for sale ability. The center leader is retrained in young trees quite easily."

So.... yea? Nay?

On the one hand, it sounds plausible, in that I know you do this to some perennials and shrubs to achieve the same sort of effect.

On the other, it doesn't explain why no other pruning was done throughout the tree. It also doesn't explain the half-assed initial job on the maple.

But I'm not about to go destroying them across social media if this is, in fact, a legit practice.

What did the specs actually say?

Because I understood that the job description was to reduce laterals. Not uprights. Totally, totally opposite treatments.

And FUCK HIM. This is not your fault and it should not be presented to you that way. Very shitty of him.

And as for  "This is a pruning process we use in the nursery all the time on virtually every tree to stimulate horizontal growth which gives the tree a fuller character for sale ability. The center leader is retrained in young trees quite easily."

YES this is indeed what happens in the nursery. It is called production pruning. But YOUR HOME IS NOT A NURSERY and THIS TREE IS NOT GOING TO MARKET so this is the biggest heap of steaming bullshit explanation I have ever heard.

I am seriously fuming after reading this condescending explanation of his fuckup, trying to load some blame on YOU.

They showed up unannounced because they didn't want to lose the money. They didn't want to show proof of insurance, they wanted to go directy to the check. Have they showed insurance yet? Because arborists CAN be sued for malpractice.

[Deleted]

I would be semi-tempted to copy treedimensional 's response and send it to him with the intro that "I contacted a friend that works in the industry and this was her response" and then see what he says.
I figure that there isn't much recourse at this point since they can't exactly glue your tree back together so it wouldn't hurt too much to tell it like it is.

[compassrose]

May 30, 2015 0:55:36 GMT -5 @forcuatro said:

I would be semi-tempted to copy treedimensional 's response and send it to him with the intro that "I contacted a friend that works in the industry and this was her response" and then see what he says.
I figure that there isn't much recourse at this point since they can't exactly glue your tree back together so it wouldn't hurt too much to tell it like it is.

I agree with sending a modified version. You don't want them billing you and it ending up in collections (because you haven't paid yet, right?)

[treedimensional]

You may be justified in witholding payment BASED ON WHAT THE WRITTEN SPECS SAY.
If the specs were not followed then you have cause. However, I have not read the specs. At first they seemed unambiguous, but the owner's comments about them are completely contradictory to information previously posted.

The tree was topped. The treatment of landscape trees is NOT the same as nursery trees. As the owner of the tree, YOU decide how it will be managed. If you ask an arborist to top your tree, this would be a reasonable result, but this treatment is contraindicated and detrimental to the tree. Therefore, it would be a very important thing to put in the contract.

 

I have walked away from jobs where I was asked to do things that harm trees. If you asked me to top your tree, there better be a damn good reason, and a long conversation, and put in writing. And it better be something like a crapemyrtle where it doesn't make that much difference because it doesn't have a central leader. Not this tree. He is tying to minimize his error by telling you this kind of pruning is a legitimate practice, happens all the time, and is not a big deal for your tree, which is all bullshit.

If you'd specifically asked me to top your young linden, I would have declined the job and told you WHY, and I would not have provided a referral to another company (which is what I normally do if I can't do work that is justified).

[2curlydogs]

I only have a few seconds to respond cause I have to get on the road to Chicago. But:

1. No, I haven't received proof of insurance.
2. I haven't seen the technical work order. I have my copy of what it is, but it's just general statement of work
3. He stated in his email he's waiving the cost of the Linden "work". He's also sending a Panera gift card (*SNORT*).
4. He also claimed responsibility, that the miscommunication was entirely on their end between the arborist who did the initial consult and wrote up the work order and the guy who executed the work.
5. We have not touched/talked about the maple, which was also not properly done.

I want to believe this guy is trying to deal with me honestly. But I also think there's a crapton of CYA going on, either on his part or the other arborist I was dealing with.

Thank you for replying, though. I appreciate it. I hope you don't mind if I do cite your responses.

[treedimensional]

This is why I work alone. When you consult with me about pruning, you're talking to the person who will do it. The only time someone else prunes for my company, I am working alongside her, and it is someone whose work I know well. I hire unskilled labor, but only to dig holes or haul away my debris and even then I am on site supervising that person. I can't risk compromising my customers' TRUST.

I hope you don't mind if I do cite your responses.

How do you mean (do you actually know me by name)?

[2curlydogs]

May 30, 2015 19:41:01 GMT -5 treedimensional said:

This is why I work alone. When you consult with me about pruning, you're talking to the person who will do it. The only time someone else prunes for my company, I am working alongside her, and it is someone whose work I know well. I hire unskilled labor, but only to dig holes or haul away my debris and even then I am on site supervising that person. I can't risk compromising my customers' TRUST.

I hope you don't mind if I do cite your responses.

How do you mean (do you actually know me by name)?

No, I don't. Just using terminology. Production pruning. Crap like that.

I'm working on my response now. 

[2curlydogs]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAnd not 15 minutes after my email, I got the certificate of insurance. Commercial General Liability, Auto liability, umbrella liability and worker's comp. Complete with policy numbers and limits.

So. There's that.

*sigh* This should not have been that hard.

[treedimensional]

Jun 1, 2015 9:27:26 GMT -5 2curlydogs said:

May 30, 2015 19:41:01 GMT -5 treedimensional said:

This is why I work alone. When you consult with me about pruning, you're talking to the person who will do it. The only time someone else prunes for my company, I am working alongside her, and it is someone whose work I know well. I hire unskilled labor, but only to dig holes or haul away my debris and even then I am on site supervising that person. I can't risk compromising my customers' TRUST.

How do you mean (do you actually know me by name)?

No, I don't. Just using terminology. Production pruning. Crap like that.

I'm working on my response now. 

In a production nursery, usually it is only the "whips" that are topped to promote branching, and those are extremely young trees. There is no reason to do it after that unless it's a fruit crop tree.

To imply that it's common to do the same thing to an established, large growing species, landscape tree is absolutely untrue. What he did is called topping and it's always wrong.

[redheadk]

So basically these people trespassed on your property and irreparably damaged it? And want you to pay for part of that? WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK.