Americans are savers now and it is bad for the economy

[downtoearth]

It might be bad for the economy, but I feel like it's better for the environment if we avoid buying so much crap all the time. It's so conflicting b/c we all want to have retirement and nice things, but there has to be more than money to make the world go round.

[moreace01]

Well, I'm doing my part as evidenced by my credit card bill and the amount of packages being delivered to my house on a weekly basis.

I need to be cut off (two tie-dye maxi dresses in the past week - I don't even like tie-dye and maxi dresses make you look pregnant. I don't know what my thought process is sometimes).

[josieposy]

Pshaw. I wish.

[summer]

Happy to hear it. The world can't function on ProgressProgressProgressSpendSpendSpend

[penguingrrl]

I would wager a guess that it's less that people are saving and more that between retirement and healthcare costs there is nothing less to spend on non-necessities. Wages are stagnant, living costs are increasing, so I would think it's less that people are banking the leftover money and more that there isn't any. I know the article is suggesting that lower gas prices should mean more consumer spending, but I would be curious to see if instead it's translating to slightly less debt as opposed to more money to spend.

[wawa]

while I understand the numbers on this, I've never understood how it's supposed to actually play out - I mean, it's not a good thing from so many aspects for us to just constantly run through this churning cycle of spending money on crap, discarding said crap, spending money on new crap, etc etc etc. I understand how that drives the economy, but it's terrible from an environmental POV, from a long term sustainability POV, from a personal wellness POV.

So...how do we fix it? I mean, the economy contracting is....bad, yes? Maybe we just all need to pay more money for less stuff? Maybe a living wage for peole at the bottom so they can afford to spend at least a baseline level to live a comfortable life, which would make up for less spending on the middle and upper ends when we stop buying shit we don't actually need?

I dunno...the whole idea that a stable economy is actually a bad thing and we need constant growth kinda gives me heartburn. It just makes it sound like the whole damn show is one giant bubble. People were spending and spending - but with credit cards, and at the expense of saving for future costs. It's not REAL money. It's all borrowed from down the road. I hate feeling like our entire economy is one giant pyramid scheme. Somebody tell me it isn't?

eta:  Hey.  Still waiting on the bolded here people.  IIOY

[ESF]

Jun 2, 2015 10:31:24 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

I would wager a guess that it's less that people are saving and more that between retirement and healthcare costs there is nothing less to spend on non-necessities. Wages are stagnant, living costs are increasing, so I would think it's less that people are banking the leftover money and more that there isn't any. I know the article is suggesting that lower gas prices should mean more consumer spending, but I would be curious to see if instead it's translating to slightly less debt as opposed to more money to spend.

Yeah, I call bullshit.

The entire article seems to be based on this statistic.

The annual savings rate, now 5.6%, is higher than it was a year ago, and significantly higher than the pre-recession norm of around 3%, according to the Federal Reserve.


That doesn't tell us anything about who is actually doing the saving.  If rich people are the only ones who were saving, and rich people are getting richer, then it makes sense that they'd be saving more.

I don't buy that people making $50k a year are suddenly building 6 month e-funds with the $12 a week they are saving on gas.

[penguingrrl]

Jun 2, 2015 10:45:23 GMT -5 ESF said:

Jun 2, 2015 10:31:24 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

I would wager a guess that it's less that people are saving and more that between retirement and healthcare costs there is nothing less to spend on non-necessities. Wages are stagnant, living costs are increasing, so I would think it's less that people are banking the leftover money and more that there isn't any. I know the article is suggesting that lower gas prices should mean more consumer spending, but I would be curious to see if instead it's translating to slightly less debt as opposed to more money to spend.

Yeah, I call bullshit.

The entire article seems to be based on this statistic.

The annual savings rate, now 5.6%, is higher than it was a year ago, and significantly higher than the pre-recession norm of around 3%, according to the Federal Reserve.


That doesn't tell us anything about who is actually doing the saving.  If rich people are the only ones who were saving, and rich people are getting richer, then it makes sense that they'd be saving more.

I don't buy that people making $50k a year are suddenly building 6 month e-funds with the $12 a week they are saving on gas.

I agree completely. It feels like this article is trying to make middle class Americans out to be the enemy hurting the economy by not going to Old Navy enough without exploring that the wealthiest are growing wealthier by the minute and growing their wealth rather than spending it.

[sfy]

Jun 2, 2015 10:38:18 GMT -5 @barefootbarista said:

I need to make more of an effort to spend money on experiences, not stuff that I will have to find a place for in my house.

And this is how my spending has been going as of late.  I haven't bought a new bag in forever, but we've been traveling and there's a kid in college, so choices.  I've also decided to be more of a minimalist with my clothing.  Perhaps not as coincidentally as I might have guessed, I've also increased my visits to the spa and my colorist...the graying struggle is real lol.  We've been savers for a long time, but my spending has changed (still flowing through the economy, obviously, just not as much on goods).

[lg28]

Jun 2, 2015 10:12:25 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

It might be bad for the economy, but I feel like it's better for the environment if we avoid buying so much crap all the time. It's so conflicting b/c we all want to have retirement and nice things, but there has to be more than money to make the world go round.

YES. I've always said that the current economic model of success is unsustainable because it relies on consumerism and eventually that will destroy us.

[lg28]

Jun 2, 2015 10:38:18 GMT -5 @barefootbarista said:

I know we have too much crap. I need to get rid of a bunch of crap in my house right now. Rather than give it to goodwill I try to give it directly to people that I know will use or need it-some of my students/coworkers, etc. I gave a bunch of baby clothes to a student with a baby.

Unfortunately my kids keep growing and they need clothes and shoes. I *could* get them from Goodwill, but I get a bunch of Kohl's GC's with credit card points and I can actually make money buy using a GC and going through a cash portal. So, I'm kind of contributing to the cycle.

I need to make more of an effort to spend money on experiences, not stuff that I will have to find a place for in my house.

I buy almost everything for the kids used on mommy buy/swap/sell sites, but i rarely do the same for myself. LOL. I dont know what it is.

I also happily pass on stuff that we are done with.

I'm trying to live a more "minimalist" lifestyle, but we also just build a big new house, so clearly i'm not good at it.

[sfy]

Jun 2, 2015 11:10:50 GMT -5 @barefootbarista said:

Jun 2, 2015 11:02:00 GMT -5 sfy said:

And this is how my spending has been going as of late.  I haven't bought a new bag in forever, but we've been traveling and there's a kid in college, so choices.  I've also decided to be more of a minimalist with my clothing.  Perhaps not as coincidentally as I might have guessed, I've also increased my visits to the spa and my colorist...the graying struggle is real lol.  We've been savers for a long time, but my spending has changed (still flowing through the economy, obviously, just not as much on goods).

yes.  more on school for the kids, maintenance for me.  We haven't been travelling because going places with a 4 and 1yo aren't high on my list of priorities.

I may buy some new clothes when I lose some weight but I spend too much time outside or with chaps to worry about looking cute in my backyard.

When you do, come sit by orangeblossom and me with our minimalist wardrobes.  It's hot!

[downtoearth]

Jun 2, 2015 11:10:50 GMT -5 @barefootbarista said:

Jun 2, 2015 11:02:00 GMT -5 sfy said:

And this is how my spending has been going as of late.  I haven't bought a new bag in forever, but we've been traveling and there's a kid in college, so choices.  I've also decided to be more of a minimalist with my clothing.  Perhaps not as coincidentally as I might have guessed, I've also increased my visits to the spa and my colorist...the graying struggle is real lol.  We've been savers for a long time, but my spending has changed (still flowing through the economy, obviously, just not as much on goods).

yes.  more on school for the kids, maintenance for me.  We haven't been travelling because going places with a 4 and 1yo aren't high on my list of priorities.

I may buy some new clothes when I lose some weight but I spend too much time outside or with chaps to worry about looking cute in my backyard.

Um, do you mean these types of chaps?  I'm so confused as to why you're hanging with half pants.

[msmerymac]

Here's what you do: You encourage people to spend and stimulate the economy (and it doesn't have to be on cheap plastic crap, but maybe experiences like zoo/museum trips, restaurants, hotels, or concerts). But to do that, you have to convince them to save less. You do that by actually providing the ability for people to go to college without having to save hundreds of thousands of dollars or be burdened with 6 figure student loans, and by creating a national pension system so people don't have to sock away 15-20% of their income JUST in retirement investments in order to have a chance of quitting their jobs, ever, and letting younger people enter the work force.

[Deleted]

I need to stop spending and save more. I do decently for my retirement, but everything else needs help.

I just got an annual increase and a promotion totaling about 16%, so I'n planning all of that to go to savings of one sort or another.

[downtoearth]

Jun 2, 2015 11:17:51 GMT -5 @barefootbarista said:

Jun 2, 2015 11:15:56 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

Um, do you mean these types of chaps?  I'm so confused as to why you're hanging with half pants.

chaps=black people slang for kids.

Laughing at myself so hard. I really was thinking that b/c you were talking clothes you were in a motorcycle group or were a cowgirl. LOL

[sfy]

Jun 2, 2015 11:17:51 GMT -5 @barefootbarista said:

chaps=black people slang for kids.

*hands over Black card*  Say what now?

I honestly had no idea.  I thought you meant friends and you were just randomly doing a bit of Brit speak.  I knew it didn't mean literal chaps, but those pictures tickled me.

[CallingAllAngels]

I think the economy will be more sound long-term if everyone isn't in debt up to their eyeballs.

[LadySusan]

Does paying down debt end get counted as saving money? I would believe that people are putting as much as they can towards credit cards, student loans, car loans and mortgages.

[wawa]

Jun 2, 2015 11:48:20 GMT -5 CallingAllAngels said:

I think the economy will be more sound long-term if everyone isn't in debt up to their eyeballs.

Yes, exactly.  I don't understand all this "dammit people spend money!" nonsense.  wouldn't a lack of consumer debt and some emergency savings make for a more robust economy down the road since a shift in one particular sector wouldn't lead to a cascade of people losing their houses and declaring bankruptcy and needing foodstamps and so forth??

Though I'm also with whoever said above that I want to see the receipts on WHO is doing all this saving.

[orangeblossom]

Jun 2, 2015 11:13:26 GMT -5 sfy said:

Jun 2, 2015 11:10:50 GMT -5 @barefootbarista said:

yes.  more on school for the kids, maintenance for me.  We haven't been travelling because going places with a 4 and 1yo aren't high on my list of priorities.

I may buy some new clothes when I lose some weight but I spend too much time outside or with chaps to worry about looking cute in my backyard.

When you do, come sit by orangeblossom and me with our minimalist wardrobes.  It's hot!

[

LOL.

I'm still in the getting rid of stage . I still plan to do it though.

[LadySusan]

Jun 2, 2015 12:06:19 GMT -5 wawa said:

Jun 2, 2015 11:48:20 GMT -5 CallingAllAngels said:

I think the economy will be more sound long-term if everyone isn't in debt up to their eyeballs.

Yes, exactly.  I don't understand all this "dammit people spend money!" nonsense.  wouldn't a lack of consumer debt and some emergency savings make for a more robust economy down the road since a shift in one particular sector wouldn't lead to a cascade of people losing their houses and declaring bankruptcy and needing foodstamps and so forth??

Though I'm also with whoever said above that I want to see the receipts on WHO is doing all this saving.

We have some people on this board who understand actual economics.  Who are they?  I think they could explain this better or post a better article.

But yes, based on my reading of economics blogs this is how the American economy works.  If people buy significantly less stuff at Target then Target lays off people and closes stores and the economy shrinks.  That's not to say we couldn't have an economy based on other things, like manufacturing and exporting things or taxing the rich and building giant statues of our dear leaders.  But we don't and it would take time to change.

One last thought:  inflation has been unusually low for a while now along with stagnant wages.  Inflation has a funny relationship with debt.  It makes it matter less if that makes any sense.  For example, back in the day my parents' $300 monthly mortgage payment made them seriously house poor.  But $300 now is nothing compared to their other monthly bills.