I didn't think education was as uptheass here, compared to what I read on gbcn but I took G to "meet the teacher" (for JK, starting this fall) and they didn't assess him but instead, asked me a bunch of questions about his skills, behaviour, socialization, etc.
One of the things she suggested we work on over the summer is writing. As in, he should know how to print his name by September.
Now, I know it's not crazy for some 4 year olds to know how to do this, but I still think it's crazy. My kid is so far away from even wanting to learn this sort of thing (though, I do think he would be receptive in a school environment, you know, 6 months from now).
henry can write his name, sort of.
He first writes a giant H with a lower case e on top. Then the n is also huge and somewhere else on the page. By that time he's lost interest.
My 4 yr old still writes her s backwards and her a's don't have the 'ball and stick' touching... Her name is Sarah... We're lucky to get a recognizable r and h. Thank God she's got another year of preschool...
Um, for people who fucking work, full day kindergarten is a godsend. Come on.
Not to mention it gives teachers greater flexibility for accomplishing instruction interspersed with age appropriate fun/interests.
This was my thought up until I realized they only gave full day kindergarteners 15 minutes of recess a day and gym class every other day. They expect 5 and 6 year old's to sit still and learn for 7 hours a day. It's total bullshit.
David's recess is a bit longer than that but they only get PE once a week as a special. But they get 45 minutes of free play in the school a day and they do A LOT of dancing and activities with movement.
Um, for people who fucking work, full day kindergarten is a godsend. Come on.
Not to mention it gives teachers greater flexibility for accomplishing instruction interspersed with age appropriate fun/interests.
This was my thought up until I realized they only gave full day kindergarteners 15 minutes of recess a day and gym class every other day. They expect 5 and 6 year old's to sit still and learn for 7 hours a day. It's total bullshit.
While I understand your point about lack of recess, kinder students are not expected to sit still all day. Teachers incorporate a lot of learning through movement, songs, art, etc.
Most academic subjects are taught in the morning in K. The afternoon is left for centers and play time. It's not like K's are asked to sit in silence for hours on end. Minutes maybe, not hours.
Not the case here. in kindy the schedule is morning circle (15 minutes) literacy block 1 (45 minutes) Extras (P/E 2 times a week, Art, Music, Computers) (30) math block (45 minutes) Recess (15 minutes) Soc. Studies (45) Lunch (30) Literacy block 2 (45) Science (30) Educational centers (45) end of day circle/prep for dismissal Roughly this is the schedule most of my friends kids have had this past year, the exact timing varies a bit but this is the general idea. While it's not all desk work there are no play centers and very little playtime.
I opted both of my kids into full-day kindergarten. Even though we pay $300 a month for it (half-day is free). I WAH, but I still need more than 2.5 hours a day to get my shit done.
I think the full-day is actually more laid-back than half day because the teacher doesn't have to cram all the academic stuff into 2.5 hours. So the full-day kids get to do specials (art, music, PE) and two recesses -- there's a lot more enrichment/non-3R stuff simply because they have more time to work with.
i think i'm having a moment. *sniff* i distinctly remember being on ML a million years ago and wondering if we would all still be here when our hypothetical kids start school.
DS does not attend a public school - and one of the main reasons I loved it was the longer hours and the fact that he spends 2 entire hours playing outside or in an art class. PLUS and actual Physical Education class everyday.
I was talking to my friend about her 4th grade class the other day (she's a teacher). She was mentioning the THESIS PAPERS the class worked on.
Granted, these are not 120 page papers, just one or two pages, but they had to have an actual thesis and supporting paragraphs.
My eyes about bugged out of my head.
The school system I was in from 5th grade on did this, 4th through 8th or 9th grade. Called writing prompts. We called the thesis statement our something-else statement, it was explained in 9-10yr old terms -- I just forget what it was called. It was a 5 paragraph essay with the statement and the length requirement grew from a page to I think 3 pages by the time 8th grade rolled around, but you had an hour, 1.5hr. We did it I think 3 times a year -- it seemed sporadic to me at the time but I'm sure it wasn't entirely.
Having read college essays that couldn't even follow a 5 paragraph form (intro, point 1, point 2, point 3, conclusion) [ie, lacking, not that they went beyond that basic form] I think this is a great thing to start early.
My cousin, a first grade teacher, is all excited because her district is finally offering full day kindergarten. And apparently my district will be offering it come fall. Am I the only one who's a bit "Oh goodness no" about it? I don't need a five year old in school all day. I want them outside, getting dirty.
Maybe this will chance by then, as clearly I have years to wait for that decision :-)
Um, for people who fucking work, full day kindergarten is a godsend. Come on.
Not to mention it gives teachers greater flexibility for accomplishing instruction interspersed with age appropriate fun/interests.
I made this decision at 18m, but if my kids aren't going to be with me all day (obv I would kickass w learning "in the field," right) then they are going to be in an age-appropriately academic environment.
Obviously at this age (3) it's all learning through play with 1hr of circle time (weather, letters, date, month, and the theme of the month) but still. Some daycares I saw were just "keep the kid alive" rodeos and no.
So full day K for sure.
Though Sprky I agree that there needs to be more outside/recess time built in for the under-10 crowd. For sure. That's a separate issue though. I'm excited our prospective kindergarten does 20 minutes and in the course of a day that's still way too little
Post by sandyapples on Jun 3, 2015 11:32:04 GMT -5
I love DD1's kindergarten too. She is just finishing up JK which is full day here. JK and SK is a combined program in the same classroom. They go outside twice a day, have gym or dance 3x a week and it is all play based learning. She has learned to write her letters (something she refused to do at home or preschool) can write some words on her own and is starting to read a little bit. She has become so much more grown up and independent since school started it is amazing. I think it will be great for her next year when she is one of the big kids in the class and can help out the littler ones. In conclusion, everyone move to Ontario.
I'd like to represent as apparently one of the few who is happy as a clam with my kids' kindergarten.
By 5-6, my kids were/are eager to finally be full-day students, and they don't just sit all day. They move pretty frequently among stations and topics, including play stations. And for academics, they meet kids where they are. My kids are both readers, but not everyone in their K classes is, and it's not like they're in the corner with a dunce cap on.
For the not-yet-K-moms: private school not always necessary.
I have an almost third grader and my experience has been far different from what others are talking about. It's been great - she is learning like mad, there is a focus on academics (but it's school, so there should be) and I think it's all been appropriate.
But we have people in this thread saying that college kids and high school kids can't do the basics, but yet new more rigorous curriculum guidelines are too tough. Seems to be conflicting. If we want our kids today to do better, we need to do better teaching them.
Most academic subjects are taught in the morning in K. The afternoon is left for centers and play time. It's not like K's are asked to sit in silence for hours on end. Minutes maybe, not hours.
Lol, I wish this was the case. I had my kids moving as much as possible and incorporated play into my day, but it's because I straight up LIED on my lesson plans and my kids were behaved enough and progressing enough that no one bothered to check on me much. It also helped that my classroom was in the dungeon/basement.
I know that this isn't the case everywhere, thankfully. But I wouldn't just assume your kid is getting play and outdoor time in kinder. Unfortunately not a lot of people higher up give a good goddamn about what's best for our youngest learners.
I have an almost third grader and my experience has been far different from what others are talking about. It's been great - she is learning like mad, there is a focus on academics (but it's school, so there should be) and I think it's all been appropriate.
But we have people in this thread saying that college kids and high school kids can't do the basics, but yet new more rigorous curriculum guidelines are too tough. Seems to be conflicting. If we want our kids today to do better, we need to do better teaching them.
Yes, definitely. I think the testing focus takes away from this. Not that there shouldn't be ANY testing but days of testing every single year is just a lot.
Also I think we need to look at the holistic child, not just the test scores. Everyone does better when they move more -- I think having more recess is only beneficial to kids. Actually it's been proven (http://scholarpedia.org/article/The_Benefits_of_Recess_in_Primary_School). So seeing recess times dwindle is really disappointing.
I have an almost third grader and my experience has been far different from what others are talking about. It's been great - she is learning like mad, there is a focus on academics (but it's school, so there should be) and I think it's all been appropriate.
But we have people in this thread saying that college kids and high school kids can't do the basics, but yet new more rigorous curriculum guidelines are too tough. Seems to be conflicting. If we want our kids today to do better, we need to do better teaching them.
This is absolutely true, however just shoving everything down a grade or two isn't going to do it. And disregarding research about how our students learn best in favor of teaching to the test isn't going to do it either.
Most academic subjects are taught in the morning in K. The afternoon is left for centers and play time. It's not like K's are asked to sit in silence for hours on end. Minutes maybe, not hours.
Lol, I wish this was the case. I had my kids moving as much as possible and incorporated play into my day, but it's because I straight up LIED on my lesson plans and my kids were behaved enough and progressing enough that no one bothered to check on me much. It also helped that my classroom was in the dungeon/basement.
I know that this isn't the case everywhere, thankfully. But I wouldn't just assume your kid is getting play and outdoor time in kinder. Unfortunately not a lot of people higher up give a good goddamn about what's best for our youngest learners.
Someone checks your actual lesson plans??? I don't have time for that, lol!!! (Checking teachers' lesson plans I mean, not writing them)
I have an almost third grader and my experience has been far different from what others are talking about. It's been great - she is learning like mad, there is a focus on academics (but it's school, so there should be) and I think it's all been appropriate.
But we have people in this thread saying that college kids and high school kids can't do the basics, but yet new more rigorous curriculum guidelines are too tough. Seems to be conflicting. If we want our kids today to do better, we need to do better teaching them.
This is absolutely true, however just shoving everything down a grade or two isn't going to do it. And disregarding research about how our students learn best in favor of teaching to the test isn't going to do it either.
My 2nd grader has yet to take any standardized tests, and she has lots of active learning including playing. That's kind of my point - the things people are saying are not things i have seen in three years of public school.
This is absolutely true, however just shoving everything down a grade or two isn't going to do it. And disregarding research about how our students learn best in favor of teaching to the test isn't going to do it either.
My 2nd grader has yet to take any standardized tests, and she has lots of active learning including playing. That's kind of my point - the things people are saying are not things i have seen in three years of public school.
I was talking to my friend about her 4th grade class the other day (she's a teacher). She was mentioning the THESIS PAPERS the class worked on.
Granted, these are not 120 page papers, just one or two pages, but they had to have an actual thesis and supporting paragraphs.
My eyes about bugged out of my head.
My 4th grader had a "spring project" this year. It was a 5-6(!!) page report on a specific topic, with several drafts, cited sources (at least 4 that were not from the internet), proper format, etc. They had 3 months to work on them and it was a big deal! But that sort of expectation is age appropriate, not overwhelming nor crazy.
Does a fourth-grader even know what a draft is? I'd have been pretty pissed if, as a 4th grader (so, 9 or 10?) I'd done a report, turned it in and gotten in back with an, "Okay, it's good. Now do it again but different." No. I already did it once.
My 4th grader had a "spring project" this year. It was a 5-6(!!) page report on a specific topic, with several drafts, cited sources (at least 4 that were not from the internet), proper format, etc. They had 3 months to work on them and it was a big deal! But that sort of expectation is age appropriate, not overwhelming nor crazy.
Does a fourth-grader even know what a draft is? I'd have been pretty pissed if, as a 4th grader (so, 9 or 10?) I'd done a report, turned it in and gotten in back with an, "Okay, it's good. Now do it again but different." No. I already did it once.
My second grader had to write drafts for short stories this year.
Yep, from my experience this is the case. The universal benchmarks are a bit maddening and why I no longer teach.
HUH? Isn't the entire country on common core? Because that says nothing about kinders being expected to "read fluently, with purpose and understanding". From what I understand is they should know sight words or mini sentences that only include sight words. Am I wrong??
No. We're in Virginia, and VA is one of four states that never joined. More states have/are considering opting out.
Well now I went down the rabbit hole of looking into kindergarten in the county we expect to be in when he starts. The cutoff birthday is Dec 1. I thought we were in the clear for him starting late. And the schedule makes me nervous. I'm nervous now.
My 4th grader had a "spring project" this year. It was a 5-6(!!) page report on a specific topic, with several drafts, cited sources (at least 4 that were not from the internet), proper format, etc. They had 3 months to work on them and it was a big deal! But that sort of expectation is age appropriate, not overwhelming nor crazy.
Does a fourth-grader even know what a draft is? I'd have been pretty pissed if, as a 4th grader (so, 9 or 10?) I'd done a report, turned it in and gotten in back with an, "Okay, it's good. Now do it again but different." No. I already did it once.
Yeah, of course they do LOL! It's not like the teacher just says "Ok, give me a report!" before explaining the process. They start writing brief reports in 1st grade. By 4th grade, they're very familiar with how to research, take notes, write drafts, edit, then do a final report.
My 2nd grader has yet to take any standardized tests, and she has lots of active learning including playing. That's kind of my point - the things people are saying are not things i have seen in three years of public school.
Testing starts in third grade. It's coming!
I know. But this post was focused on K and there isn't testing in K. Yes, there is testing later. Yes, it is over a few days. But it's not every year in these early years and there is a lot of time for movement and learning - they aren't mutually exclusive in my experience. It's not like rows of desks with worksheets.
My cousin, a first grade teacher, is all excited because her district is finally offering full day kindergarten. And apparently my district will be offering it come fall. Am I the only one who's a bit "Oh goodness no" about it? I don't need a five year old in school all day. I want them outside, getting dirty.
Maybe this will chance by then, as clearly I have years to wait for that decision :-)
The question as to whether full day is better than half really comes down to the goals of K. If you K is old school half day is fine. However if you're on a common core program then a half day is probably just not enough time to cover everything. We're winding down the year and there is still a fair amount of instruction happening and the teachers are still working to pull up stranglers in reading and math.
In some perfect world I'd say half day of "academics" would fine because K wouldn't be so intense. Then you could either do play based wrap or have the parents pick up.