Why I Defaulted On My Student Loans

[LadySusan]

I can't decide if this guy is the worst writer ever, for expressing himself as an unsympathetic whiner, or if he is the best writer ever, for expressing himself as the quintessential New York Times unsympathetic financial whiner. I have to think he's doing it on purpose.

[decemberwedding07]

Jun 7, 2015 12:46:04 GMT -5 @meepmeep said:

There are approximately hundreds of thousands of other people in this country who could have written this article and garnered a lot of sympathy for his/her plight of crushing student loan debt and being unable to pay for things like housing, medical care, starting a family, etc. This person, though, makes it sound like exactly what the olds think when they hear people complaining about student loans: young people are lazy and unrealistic, and they shirk their responsibilities to chase their dreams. Terrible representation of a very real problem.

Dude, this would SO be my sister, if it weren't for my parents making her loan payments for her. She's been out of college for five years and hasn't found a job. On the one hand, I feel sorry for her, but on the other, any job she HAS gotten (retail, or temp work) has only lasted about a month or so, since she feels it's beneath her. She just doesn't even bother to show up on time, or at all. She has done okay at substitute teaching, but I think that's because she can decide that very morning if she wants to do it or not.

We recently had a conversation where she talked about how she didn't LOVE the jobs she has had, so she didn't see the point in doing them. Our dad actually LOVES his job. He would do it until the day he died even if tomorrow he won a billion dollars. No exaggeration. Her husband also loves his job. I think that has given her some sort of warped view of reality in which it is common to love your job so much that you don't actually see a big difference between being at work and just hanging out. She was shocked when I told her our other sister's husband hates his job. She couldn't understand how he had become wildly successful. He just does it because he doesn't have another option. She couldn't grasp that idea. Millennials, man...

[iammalcolmx]

I get student loan garnishments all the time. They gon find his ass.

[alexis]

Jun 7, 2015 14:59:14 GMT -5 decemberwedding07 said:

Jun 7, 2015 12:46:04 GMT -5 @meepmeep said:

There are approximately hundreds of thousands of other people in this country who could have written this article and garnered a lot of sympathy for his/her plight of crushing student loan debt and being unable to pay for things like housing, medical care, starting a family, etc. This person, though, makes it sound like exactly what the olds think when they hear people complaining about student loans: young people are lazy and unrealistic, and they shirk their responsibilities to chase their dreams. Terrible representation of a very real problem.

Dude, this would SO be my sister, if it weren't for my parents making her loan payments for her. She's been out of college for five years and hasn't found a job. On the one hand, I feel sorry for her, but on the other, any job she HAS gotten (retail, or temp work) has only lasted about a month or so, since she feels it's beneath her. She just doesn't even bother to show up on time, or at all. She has done okay at substitute teaching, but I think that's because she can decide that very morning if she wants to do it or not.

We recently had a conversation where she talked about how she didn't LOVE the jobs she has had, so she didn't see the point in doing them. Our dad actually LOVES his job. He would do it until the day he died even if tomorrow he won a billion dollars. No exaggeration. Her husband also loves his job. I think that has given her some sort of warped view of reality in which it is common to love your job so much that you don't actually see a big difference between being at work and just hanging out. She was shocked when I told her our other sister's husband hates his job. She couldn't understand how he had become wildly successful. He just does it because he doesn't have another option. She couldn't grasp that idea. Millennials, man...

I feel like the idea of finding a job you'll love was pushed hard on my generation and probably the millennials as well.

"Find a job you love and you'll never work a day in your life."
"Pursue your passion and the money will follow."
"Find a career that you wake up eager to go to every day."
...

It was just really drilled into me in school that you were supposed to find a job you loved and love it all the time.  When I did a summer internship at my dream job, it was quite a let down that I didn't love it all the time and I didn't want to go every day.  It was overall a great experience that I enjoyed and learned from, but I didn't looove it.  It lead to some serious introspection about what was important in my life and the validity of what I had been taught throughout my entire education about what a career was supposed to be.

It doesn't excuse the behavior of people who are unwilling to support themselves because they just haven't found the job they love, but I can see how it would be hard for someone who isn't very introspective or have "adults support themselves" parents to move past this idea that has been drilled into them throughout their formative years.

It really just goes to show that we need to be more nuanced and realistic when talking to young people about careers because I still see this type of "always follow your dreams" nonsense being spouted.  Perhaps we could talk about following one's dream while still supporting oneself and taking pride in a job well done regardless of the job.

[Deleted]

Jun 7, 2015 12:22:57 GMT -5 mcsangel2 said:

The author is neglecting to mention that one way or another, the government will get their money (assuming it's federal loans, which it sounds like). They'll take it out of his/her social security. I have a lot of sympathy for people who get sucked into the SL hole, but I would NEVER recommend walking away from repayment, for that reason.

There is a commentor on the article who explained that she co-signed loans for her son who has since defaulted and the government is taking it out of her SS. She's outraged by this and argues that this is evidence that the system is "broken." What I want to know is, are co-signers warned that this is a possibility when they agree to sign? Is it in the fine print somewhere? I feel bad for her. I'm sure she wanted to believe in her son's integrity and that he would never do this to her. But her anger is misplaced. Her son is to blame for her shitty situation.

[Deleted]

Jun 7, 2015 12:46:04 GMT -5 @meepmeep said:

There are approximately hundreds of thousands of other people in this country who could have written this article and garnered a lot of sympathy for his/her plight of crushing student loan debt and being unable to pay for things like housing, medical care, starting a family, etc. This person, though, makes it sound like exactly what the olds think when they hear people complaining about student loans: young people are lazy and unrealistic, and they shirk their responsibilities to chase their dreams. Terrible representation of a very real problem.

Yes exactly! Because reading this article and this person's breathtaking egotism and astounding entitlement, it does make me want someone to go after him for wage garnishment. But I know that for a lot of people, the situation is why more complocated than this so it's a shame the NYT opted for a click bait piece rather than something more nuanced and complex.

[Deleted]

Jun 7, 2015 13:36:08 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Jun 7, 2015 13:15:23 GMT -5 papiercherri said:

Nah, this old needs to shut up.

Google tells me this guy is 69, highly educated, won numerous awards, and authored five books.

I'm going to guess the impact of him having shitty credit is a little different than a 30 year old middle class couple struggling to make ends meet. Money talks, and for a young couple with meager savings, not being able to finance a car at a decent rate, get a regular mortgage or decent rental without a huge down payment, or being declined a position due to credit, is vastly different than the experience of an elderly guy who started out his young life before credit was even a thing.

I have to wonder if defaulting on your loans in the 1970s or 1980s came with fewer negative consequences, or if the negative consequences weren't as devastating (i.e. housing being cheaper, jobs being more stable, etc.). Because the OP's advice is really shitty to offer in 2015.

I think it must have been. I remember someone advising me to plan on defaulting on my potential law school loans when I mentioned that I was reluctant to go because I'd have to finance the whole thing and that didn't seem like a good idea. He told me there was some website that was advising people to do this where he had read up on it. He did it himself and it trashed his credit for some amount of time (7-10 years I can't remember the exact # anymore) but since he didn't want to buy a house or a car it was nbd. This was back in ~ 2003 and thank god I didn't listen because they changed the rules shortly thereafter.

[Deleted]

Jun 7, 2015 13:41:11 GMT -5 ttt said:

Here's the other thing - he got his student loans back in the 70s, right? All student loans WERE dischargeable in bankruptcy prior to 1976. And until 1998, they could be discharged after a five year waiting period. And it wasn't until 2005 that private student loans were no longer dischargeable too. So he likely could have simply filed for bankruptcy to get rid of these loans. That's an option that today's student have had taken away from them (BY HIS GENERATION I might add). 

Why did the change the law, do you know? Were there too many people defaulting or something? Because like I said above I remember people talking about doing it for law school loans but I only know one person who actually went through with it.

[cookiemdough]

Jun 7, 2015 15:23:30 GMT -5 alexis said:

Jun 7, 2015 14:59:14 GMT -5 decemberwedding07 said:

Dude, this would SO be my sister, if it weren't for my parents making her loan payments for her. She's been out of college for five years and hasn't found a job. On the one hand, I feel sorry for her, but on the other, any job she HAS gotten (retail, or temp work) has only lasted about a month or so, since she feels it's beneath her. She just doesn't even bother to show up on time, or at all. She has done okay at substitute teaching, but I think that's because she can decide that very morning if she wants to do it or not.

We recently had a conversation where she talked about how she didn't LOVE the jobs she has had, so she didn't see the point in doing them. Our dad actually LOVES his job. He would do it until the day he died even if tomorrow he won a billion dollars. No exaggeration. Her husband also loves his job. I think that has given her some sort of warped view of reality in which it is common to love your job so much that you don't actually see a big difference between being at work and just hanging out. She was shocked when I told her our other sister's husband hates his job. She couldn't understand how he had become wildly successful. He just does it because he doesn't have another option. She couldn't grasp that idea. Millennials, man...

I feel like the idea of finding a job you'll love was pushed hard on my generation and probably the millennials as well.

"Find a job you love and you'll never work a day in your life."
"Pursue your passion and the money will follow."
"Find a career that you wake up eager to go to every day."
...

It was just really drilled into me in school that you were supposed to find a job you loved and love it all the time.  When I did a summer internship at my dream job, it was quite a let down that I didn't love it all the time and I didn't want to go every day.  It was overall a great experience that I enjoyed and learned from, but I didn't looove it.  It lead to some serious introspection about what was important in my life and the validity of what I had been taught throughout my entire education about what a career was supposed to be.

It doesn't excuse the behavior of people who are unwilling to support themselves because they just haven't found the job they love, but I can see how it would be hard for someone who isn't very introspective or have "adults support themselves" parents to move past this idea that has been drilled into them throughout their formative years.

It really just goes to show that we need to be more nuanced and realistic when talking to young people about careers because I still see this type of "always follow your dreams" nonsense being spouted.  Perhaps we could talk about following one's dream while still supporting oneself and taking pride in a job well done regardless of the job.

I have friends that are just now following their dreams at 40+ but is because they worked at jobs that they didn't love all the time in order to set themselves up financially to be able to pursue their dreams without compromising lifestyle.

[macmars45]

We're still paying off H's SLs. Granted we're only 30 and 29 but we won't be paying them off anytime soon.

[alexis]

Jun 7, 2015 16:23:26 GMT -5 cookiemdough said:

Jun 7, 2015 15:23:30 GMT -5 alexis said:

I feel like the idea of finding a job you'll love was pushed hard on my generation and probably the millennials as well.

"Find a job you love and you'll never work a day in your life."
"Pursue your passion and the money will follow."
"Find a career that you wake up eager to go to every day."
...

It was just really drilled into me in school that you were supposed to find a job you loved and love it all the time.  When I did a summer internship at my dream job, it was quite a let down that I didn't love it all the time and I didn't want to go every day.  It was overall a great experience that I enjoyed and learned from, but I didn't looove it.  It lead to some serious introspection about what was important in my life and the validity of what I had been taught throughout my entire education about what a career was supposed to be.

It doesn't excuse the behavior of people who are unwilling to support themselves because they just haven't found the job they love, but I can see how it would be hard for someone who isn't very introspective or have "adults support themselves" parents to move past this idea that has been drilled into them throughout their formative years.

It really just goes to show that we need to be more nuanced and realistic when talking to young people about careers because I still see this type of "always follow your dreams" nonsense being spouted.  Perhaps we could talk about following one's dream while still supporting oneself and taking pride in a job well done regardless of the job.

I have friends that are just now following their dreams at 40+ but is because they worked at jobs that they didn't love all the time in order to set themselves up financially to be able to pursue their dreams without compromising lifestyle.

I suspect being stuck in a job they hated is why previous generations pushed our generations to follow our dreams. Although it's certainly not going to stop them complaining about the results of their advice.

When I was doing my internship and wondering what was wrong with me for not loving it, I heard someone say, "A job I like about half the time is a good job." That really resonated with me as a miss realistic way to think about a career. Maybe those are the types of sayings we need to give our children and print on posters with pretty pictures.

"A job you like about half the time is a good job."
"Money isn't everything, but it is important. Try to find a way to earn it that you don't hate."
"Choosing a career is tricky business. You must consider what you're good at versus what you enjoy versus what someone might pay you for. You must also think about what kind of lifestyle you want in regards to your time, and how and where you want to live. Then you must try to balance all these parameters and find a career that fits your priorities."

The last one may need work.

[cookiemdough]

I think the last one is truth though.

[ttt]

Jun 7, 2015 16:16:27 GMT -5 CheeringCharm said:

Jun 7, 2015 13:41:11 GMT -5 ttt said:

Here's the other thing - he got his student loans back in the 70s, right? All student loans WERE dischargeable in bankruptcy prior to 1976. And until 1998, they could be discharged after a five year waiting period. And it wasn't until 2005 that private student loans were no longer dischargeable too. So he likely could have simply filed for bankruptcy to get rid of these loans. That's an option that today's student have had taken away from them (BY HIS GENERATION I might add). 

Why did the change the law, do you know? Were there too many people defaulting or something? Because like I said above I remember people talking about doing it for law school loans but I only know one person who actually went through with it.

Because the lenders went full court press with lobbying. The banking industry spent $100 million and in return, they got to literally write the bankruptcy reform law in 2005. 


www.nytimes.com/2005/12/11/us/newly-bankrupt-raking-in-piles-of-credit-offers.html

[bears]

Jun 7, 2015 16:00:15 GMT -5 CheeringCharm said:

Jun 7, 2015 12:22:57 GMT -5 mcsangel2 said:

The author is neglecting to mention that one way or another, the government will get their money (assuming it's federal loans, which it sounds like). They'll take it out of his/her social security. I have a lot of sympathy for people who get sucked into the SL hole, but I would NEVER recommend walking away from repayment, for that reason.

There is a commentor on the article who explained that she co-signed loans for her son who has since defaulted and the government is taking it out of her SS. She's outraged by this and argues that this is evidence that the system is "broken." What I want to know is, are co-signers warned that this is a possibility when they agree to sign? Is it in the fine print somewhere? I feel bad for her. I'm sure she wanted to believe in her son's integrity and that he would never do this to her. But her anger is misplaced. Her son is to blame for her shitty situation.

I mean, that's the point of a cosigner--it's someone to go after when the loan doesn't get paid.

[Deleted]

Jun 7, 2015 18:24:00 GMT -5 bears said:

Jun 7, 2015 16:00:15 GMT -5 CheeringCharm said:

There is a commentor on the article who explained that she co-signed loans for her son who has since defaulted and the government is taking it out of her SS. She's outraged by this and argues that this is evidence that the system is "broken." What I want to know is, are co-signers warned that this is a possibility when they agree to sign? Is it in the fine print somewhere? I feel bad for her. I'm sure she wanted to believe in her son's integrity and that he would never do this to her. But her anger is misplaced. Her son is to blame for her shitty situation.

I mean, that's the point of a cosigner--it's someone to go after when the loan doesn't get paid.

Well yeah but it doesn't sound like she knew they could take it from her SS. That is what she is outraged about. It's hard to tell from her comment whether she should have known that or not, whether that is something that would have been explained somewhere in the form she signed or whether it was buried in legalese, etc. If it's not really spelled out, it's kind of unfair and crappy don't you think?

[secretlyevil]

Jun 7, 2015 14:55:08 GMT -5 LadySusan said:

I can't decide if this guy is the worst writer ever, for expressing himself as an unsympathetic whiner, or if he is the best writer ever, for expressing himself as the quintessential New York Times unsympathetic financial whiner. I have to think he's doing it on purpose.

you're giving him too much credit

[emisi]

Jun 7, 2015 12:35:29 GMT -5 cookiemdough said:

So yet another unsympathetic person used to overshadow the valid concerns of many as it relates to student loans and the untenable rising costs of education.

Except this person isn't talking about the rising costs of education - his loans are FORTY years old.  This is a Boomer who went to school when it was cheap, so he probably owes like $10k and refuses to pay on principle.

Also, he's not that great of a writer.

[josieposy]

How is someone with 5 books and writing something published in the NYT unable to pay those loans? College was not that expensive in his day. How has he not been garnished by now?

I apologize in advance if these questions have already been answered.

[SmartyCat]

Jun 7, 2015 18:27:01 GMT -5 CheeringCharm said:

Jun 7, 2015 18:24:00 GMT -5 bears said:

I mean, that's the point of a cosigner--it's someone to go after when the loan doesn't get paid.

Well yeah but it doesn't sound like she knew they could take it from her SS. That is what she is outraged about. It's hard to tell from her comment whether she should have known that or not, whether that is something that would have been explained somewhere in the form she signed or whether it was buried in legalese, etc. If it's not really spelled out, it's kind of unfair and crappy don't you think?

When you cosign for someone, you sign up for all of the collection efforts that would come with whatever loan you yourself take out. I started brainwashing DS when he was about 12: if I have the cash to spare I will give it to you outright, but don't ever ever ever ask me to cosign a loan for you.

This sounds harsh, but I think a lot of people cosign loans with rose-colored glasses on and don't even consider for a moment whether they can afford to take on the payments themselves. There's a reason the bank is requiring a cosigner.

[alexis]

Jun 7, 2015 18:07:32 GMT -5 cookiemdough said:

I think the last one is truth though.

I agree, but it won't work as a poster.

[MrsAxilla]

Jun 7, 2015 15:14:49 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

I get student loan garnishments all the time. They gon find his ass.

True, but they'd rather just have people pay than hunt them down.  DOE has a rehabilitation program for defaulted student loans.  Not only will you get your loans back in good standing, you can also have fees and penalties removed.

[SmartyCat]

Jun 7, 2015 12:12:30 GMT -5 summer said:

Or maybe, after going back to school, I should have gone into finance, or some other lucrative career. Self-disgust and lifelong unhappiness, destroying a precious young life — all this is a small price to pay for meeting your student loan obligations.

You know? My first choice when I was 17 was to be a music major. Being from a modest background myself, I stopped to think about the job security that went with an undergrad in music. And then got a business degree instead. I do musical stuff in my spare time.

I'll raise a glass through stifled sobs to my destroyed precious young life right after I find my eyeballs. They seem to have rolled out of my head and onto the floor. 

There are a ton of legitimate issues with student loans, but this guy is the worst mouthpiece ever.

[cookiemdough]

Yes as a co-signer you anticipate they could come after you for the balance but I don't think it is common knowledge that they would garnish social security.

[emisi]

Jun 7, 2015 19:05:22 GMT -5 josieposy said:

How is someone with 5 books and writing something published in the NYT unable to pay those loans? College was not that expensive in his day. How has he not been garnished by now?

I apologize in advance if these questions have already been answered.

He totally can pay it, but he feels like he's too SPECIAL to do so.

I wonder if his mom's SS was garnished, since she was his co-signer.  Bet he doesn't even feel bad about that.

[msmerymac]

How old is this person? "Oh noes, I'd have to work at a well paying yet less than fulfilling career to afford to repay the loans I promised to pay! Work is totes boring and not meaningful!" Sounds exactly like all of my friends the year after graduating from college. Find meaning in other things if you can't figure out how to pay your bills with your passion.

[msmerymac]

Jun 7, 2015 19:05:22 GMT -5 josieposy said:

How is someone with 5 books and writing something published in the NYT unable to pay those loans? College was not that expensive in his day. How has he not been garnished by now?

I apologize in advance if these questions have already been answered.

I'm guessing all those jobs fall under contractor and not employee, and aren't subject to wage garnishment, again showing the author's privilege.

[ttt]

Isn't the point of the SS program so that we don't have elderly people in poverty in this country? Doesn't garnishing SS for student loans kind of defeat that purpose?

[josieposy]

Jun 7, 2015 20:22:02 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

Jun 7, 2015 19:05:22 GMT -5 josieposy said:

How is someone with 5 books and writing something published in the NYT unable to pay those loans? College was not that expensive in his day. How has he not been garnished by now?

I apologize in advance if these questions have already been answered.

I'm guessing all those jobs fall under contractor and not employee, and aren't subject to wage garnishment, again showing the author's privilege.

I thought about that too.....after I posted of course.

Geez this dude is so unlikable.

[SmartyCat]

Jun 7, 2015 20:22:54 GMT -5 ttt said:

Isn't the point of the SS program so that we don't have elderly people in poverty in this country? Doesn't garnishing SS for student loans kind of defeat that purpose?

I get the point, but . . . how many bad decisions does someone need to be protected from? Cosigning a loan puts you on the hook if the borrower defaults, so it seems like something you would only do if you can afford to pick up the payments yourself.

Maybe I'm just jaded by my own experience. I know two people who have been stung by cosigning - one for student loans where their kid didn't even finish the first semester of a high-end college; and the other on a car loan for a 19-year old who just *had* to have a brand new $45K pickup truck. One had her wages garnished - she complains bitterly even to the people who suggested up front that most 19 year olds survive driving a beater until they can afford something better.

[ttt]

Jun 7, 2015 22:23:20 GMT -5 SmartyCat said:

Jun 7, 2015 20:22:54 GMT -5 ttt said:

Isn't the point of the SS program so that we don't have elderly people in poverty in this country? Doesn't garnishing SS for student loans kind of defeat that purpose?

I get the point, but . . . how many bad decisions does someone need to be protected from? Cosigning a loan puts you on the hook if the borrower defaults, so it seems like something you would only do if you can afford to pick up the payments yourself.

Maybe I'm just jaded by my own experience. I know two people who have been stung by cosigning - one for student loans where their kid didn't even finish the first semester of a high-end college; and the other on a car loan for a 19-year old who just *had* to have a brand new $45K pickup truck. One had her wages garnished - she complains bitterly even to the people who suggested up front that most 19 year olds survive driving a beater until they can afford something better.

g
I think a lot of people, particularly low income people, don't fully understand what co-signing means and what they're getting themselves into.

I'm not saying people shouldn't have to pay back those loans, even if they didn't understand cosigning. But I do think that we shouldn't be pushing people into complete poverty for it, especially elderly people who may not be able to get a job and work to make up that income. I don't think we should have a situation where people are starving to pay back a debt.