MOOk - sleep help, please.

[erbear]

DD1 (age 6) is driving me nuts. It is taking her between 1-3 hours to go to sleep every night. She wants us to come in every 10 minutes to check on her, but she gets out of bed or calls for one of us most of the time before the 10 minutes is up. If no one goes up, she starts screaming and crying. She's also been coming into our room between 1 and 4 am every night. I don't want her to sleep in here, nor do I want to sit outside her room until she falls asleep. I am home with them right now and I need some time to myself. We usually go down to the basement after dinner to watch TV but then she freaks out because she can't hear us.

She's not getting enough sleep and her behavior sucks, because she's tired, but I can't get her to sleep any earlier than about 10PM. She's up around 7.

This has been going on for about 3 weeks now. She used to be a great sleeper.

We've tried bribing her, threatening her, pulling privileges, talking about it with her. Nothing is working, I am frustrated as shit, and tired.

Any ideas?

[zarapipe]

Does she nap? Did she just get out of school for the summer? Change in routine? Is she tired? I need to wear dd out if she is going to fall asleep quick. Usually it takes her up to an hour but that is with a nap. Without is quicker.

Sticker chart? Dd was acting so bad last week that we let her Buy any book she wanted if she had 5 good nightS. it took her two weeks but she finally had 5 good nightS.

[jeaniebueller]

We went through a phase like that. How about checking on her in 5 minutes and then increasing the interval? DS's "currency" was having his door opened, so if he started crying and yelling, I would tell him that if he wasn't quiet, I had to shut his door so he wouldn't wake the baby. And a few times I went through with it and he figured it out quick. How about a rewards chart? Or a promise of a prize if she goes to bed without incident X many times? How about a dream lite or a ceiling projector?

[mlt]

It takes DS1 a long time to fall asleep - usually an hour or two. He's 4.5. He looks at books or plays quietly. I can't force him to sleep sooner, and as a light sleeper and night owl I understand his pain. BUT that doesn't mean he gets to be rude or run around at will after bedtime. If he doesn't play quietly or obnoxiously calls for us for something he can do himself (like using the bathroom or getting a drink of water) he gets the Mom-in-his-room treatment. This is something he avoids at all costs because it means I sit and read on my iPad in the corner and if he gets out of bed I give him the super nanny treatment. Also we keep the closet lights off if he's getting the Mom-in-room treatment, which he doesn't like. We have generally made bedtime shenanigans very unpleasant and so now he mostly avoids them.

[erbear]

Jun 29, 2015 20:50:06 GMT -5 zarapipe said:

Does she nap? Did she just get out of school for the summer? Change in routine? Is she tired? I need to wear dd out if she is going to fall asleep quick. Usually it takes her up to an hour but that is with a nap. Without is quicker.

Sticker chart? Dd was acting so bad last week that we let her Buy any book she wanted if she had 5 good nightS. it took her two weeks but she finally had 5 good nightS.

No nap (she's 6.5). We finished school a few weeks ago, which I'm sure is part of it. Summer should wear her out - we play a lot.

We tried a sticker chart, no avail but the book is a good idea.

[erbear]

Jun 29, 2015 20:54:16 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

We went through a phase like that. How about checking on her in 5 minutes and then increasing the interval? DS's "currency" was having his door opened, so if he started crying and yelling, I would tell him that if he wasn't quiet, I had to shut his door so he wouldn't wake the baby. And a few times I went through with it and he figured it out quick. How about a rewards chart? Or a promise of a prize if she goes to bed without incident X many times? How about a dream lite or a ceiling projector?

That's what I'm doing but closing her door results in screaming and crying (and waking up little sis, who shares a wall). 

We've tried a rewards chart and a promise of a prize. No dice.

[erbear]

Jun 29, 2015 20:54:21 GMT -5 mlt said:

It takes DS1 a long time to fall asleep - usually an hour or two. He's 4.5. He looks at books or plays quietly. I can't force him to sleep sooner, and as a light sleeper and night owl I understand his pain. BUT that doesn't mean he gets to be rude or run around at will after bedtime. If he doesn't play quietly or obnoxiously calls for us for something he can do himself (like using the bathroom or getting a drink of water) he gets the Mom-in-his-room treatment. This is something he avoids at all costs because it means I sit and read on my iPad in the corner and if he gets out of bed I give him the super nanny treatment. Also we keep the closet lights off if he's getting the Mom-in-room treatment, which he doesn't like. We have generally made bedtime shenanigans very unpleasant and so now he mostly avoids them.

Mom in room is her dream.

[mlt]

Jun 29, 2015 21:02:47 GMT -5 erbear said:

Jun 29, 2015 20:54:21 GMT -5 mlt said:

It takes DS1 a long time to fall asleep - usually an hour or two. He's 4.5. He looks at books or plays quietly. I can't force him to sleep sooner, and as a light sleeper and night owl I understand his pain. BUT that doesn't mean he gets to be rude or run around at will after bedtime. If he doesn't play quietly or obnoxiously calls for us for something he can do himself (like using the bathroom or getting a drink of water) he gets the Mom-in-his-room treatment. This is something he avoids at all costs because it means I sit and read on my iPad in the corner and if he gets out of bed I give him the super nanny treatment. Also we keep the closet lights off if he's getting the Mom-in-room treatment, which he doesn't like. We have generally made bedtime shenanigans very unpleasant and so now he mostly avoids them.

Mom in room is her dream.

Ha, oops! Scratch that then. My kid dreads if because it means he can't read or play. He just has to lie there in the dark, which is basically his worst nightmare.

[jsillyfun]

Is it possible she's genuinely afraid? I remember crying myself to sleep at that age bc I was legit terrified of ghosts. If so maybe try light on or "anti ghost spray" or something?

[vanillacourage]

We let DS sleep with a dim light (more than a nightlight - you could read by it if you strained).  What works for him is routine. We read a chapter, turn out the lights, and then snuggle with him for the length of 2 music videos - he has his own playlist on YouTube. 

I would try try to talk to her mid-afternoon, away from the strife of bedtime, and ask her if she can put into words what is keeping her from being able to relax at bedtime. 

[bugandbibs]

Melatonin? My girls take 5 mg nightly and it really helps them to wind down.

[Deleted]

I was going to suggest melatonin too. We used it for my DD to get her back on a schedule but she doesn't need it anymore. She's 3 and took .5 - 1mg

[InBetweenDays]

I too was going to suggest melatonin. We know of three friends whose kids have used it with amazing results.

[asoctoberfalls]

Another melatonin suggestion.

Ds has been taking forever to fall asleep too, and waking up early. This has never been an issue before. I think it's because it's light so late (and early!). We have black out curtains, but they're not 100%.

[faith194]

DS does not fall asleep easily (4.5). He "reads books for at least an hour after he goes to bed around 8:30. He was calling us in every 10 minutes this spring. It would go on until 11 pm. It was exhausting, since I usually goo to sleep around 9. We finally told him he could only call us in once each. If he called us in more, he would lose his morning TV show(something he loves). It worked like magic, he really doesn't call us in anymore, but we do make it a point to pop in during the first half hour. He loves that, and says "Will you check on me again?" We usually do one more time, but he is usually asleep,

Good luck!!

[katlizabeth]

Can she vocalize why she's not sleeping? Ds is that age and usually can. Is it because it is still light? Room darkening shades? An explanation of why sleep is so important and what we can't do if we don't sleep?

[mslhb]

My DD sounds similiar. She used to be an awesome sleeper. And still is once she actually falls asleep! Over the last year of two there definitely has been a change. It is like she can't turn her brain off. I swear even if she was in a completely blank room she would still be in there doing hand puppets or something. I did resign to the fact that she probably needed a later bedtime. So now everything is completely off and her tucked in bed at 9:30pm. She wakes up around 7:30am. She has to be in her room starting at 8:30/8:45pm. That is when we read books together. And then she reads books by herself/arranges her stuffed animals until lights out at 9:30. And lights out means there is an incredibly bright night light that stays on all night. She probably actually falls alseep sometwhere between 9:30-10. I feel like this is late for her age but no combination of putting her to bed earlier/limiting activities seemed to help. And she doesn't seem tired during the day. She already takes a daily medication so I don't want to try melatonin. I might take a look at the meditation link the previous poster suggested. For middle of the night we hit a patch where I would go and lay in her bed with her till she fell back asleep. Luckily this seemed to be a phase and didn't last too long. Sorry you are frustrated. I guess my post is more to commiserate then help!

[Deleted]

Do you have an old baby monitor around you could use so she can hear you when you're not in the vicinity?

Ferber's book has chapters for older kids, too. If you have that book, dust it off. I'd also move her bedtime closer to when she's falling asleep (so if it's been 10 pm lately, put her to bed at 9 or 9:30, not 8). You might be able to move that earlier in a few days when you've got a better routine.

[cjeanette]

Does she have a nightlight. E is not good at falling asleep so she keeps her closet light on and will read or play quietly. As long as she stays in her room I don't care.

[mrsGreeko]

My 6 year old is still terrified of the dark and a nightlight doesn't cut it. She has to have a lamp on to fall asleep. My older 2 also have a lot of trouble turning their brains off to sleep. Reading or looking at books on their bed help them to quiet their brains, but it is a struggle at times. Generally we don't go back into their rooms after we tuck them in and the rule is they have to stay in their rooms. interacting with them after that just keeps their brains in overdrive.

We also use music (quiet, soothing, oldest liked some classical with waves, middle likes some Disney CD played very quietly and youngest likes a lullabye classical CD) to help calm and almost create a Pavlovian response.

[schrodinger]

Jun 30, 2015 10:33:12 GMT -5 @tokenhoser said:

Do you have an old baby monitor around you could use so she can hear you when you're not in the vicinity?

Ferber's book has chapters for older kids, too. If you have that book, dust it off. I'd also move her bedtime closer to when she's falling asleep (so if it's been 10 pm lately, put her to bed at 9 or 9:30, not 8). You might be able to move that earlier in a few days when you've got a better routine.

I was going to mention moving bedtime later as well.  Every time that we've had sleep troubles, moving back bedtimes has helped solve the issue.

Most recently, SD1 would stay up until 10 or 11 and be constantly in and out of bed, asking to be checked on, getting water, etc.  We figured out that she was going to bed too early and she was too wound up to fall asleep.  She would just lie in bed and worry about things, which would get her upset, which prevented her from relaxing.  Moving bedtime back helped her to go to bed more tired, which shortened the time that she had to "think" which meant falling asleep faster and more sleep overall.

[krisim]

We have a similar problem with our 5 year old.  She goes to bed at 7:30/7:45 pm and is up by 6am (she's awake before then but has to stay in her room until 6 am so that DH and I can exercise and get ready for work).  For a long time we've let her looks at books/play quietly in her room until she's tired and it worked well, even though it can take anywhere from 1-3 hours for her to settle down.  But lately she's coming down to the living room asking for snacks, wanting to chitchat, asking to watch tv, etc... and it's getting old.  I'm sure she'd love a later bedtime but DH and I go to bed by 9:30 and we need some downtime too.  We're getting to the point where we are going to start taking away privileges, such as her leap pad or maybe not going to the library.  I need to think through some other options as well!   The worst part is that her younger sister hears her banging around and opening/shutting her door and how has started to do the same thing (though she really does need the sleep and has no trouble falling asleep most of the time!). No real advice, just wanted to commiserate.   

[ijack]

What happens if you just let her cry? I'd make sure there was white noise on in her sister's room and just let her work it out. Tell her she doesn't need to fall asleep right away, but that she has to stay in her room until she does. She can play quietly or read or whatever. Make sure she has water and a night light so she feels safe.
I'd be tempted to lock the door too, but I know some people aren't okay with it. I hate bedtime shenanigans and I'd want to shut that shit down.

[erbear]

Jun 30, 2015 7:27:59 GMT -5 katlizabeth said:

Can she vocalize why she's not sleeping? Ds is that age and usually can. Is it because it is still light? Room darkening shades? An explanation of why sleep is so important and what we can't do if we don't sleep?

She's afraid if she can't hear us because she "feels like I'm all alone in the world". 

I'm going to try melatonin (Zarbee's version) tonight and see if I can reset her.

[erbear]

Jun 30, 2015 15:06:34 GMT -5 ijack said:

What happens if you just let her cry? I'd make sure there was white noise on in her sister's room and just let her work it out. Tell her she doesn't need to fall asleep right away, but that she has to stay in her room until she does. She can play quietly or read or whatever. Make sure she has water and a night light so she feels safe.
I'd be tempted to lock the door too, but I know some people aren't okay with it. I hate bedtime shenanigans and I'd want to shut that shit down.

She shares a wall with little sister and she's not just crying, but screaming at the top of her lungs. Door locks from the inside.

[erbear]

Jun 30, 2015 14:47:53 GMT -5 krisim said:

We have a similar problem with our 5 year old.  She goes to bed at 7:30/7:45 pm and is up by 6am (she's awake before then but has to stay in her room until 6 am so that DH and I can exercise and get ready for work).  For a long time we've let her looks at books/play quietly in her room until she's tired and it worked well, even though it can take anywhere from 1-3 hours for her to settle down.  But lately she's coming down to the living room asking for snacks, wanting to chitchat, asking to watch tv, etc... and it's getting old.  I'm sure she'd love a later bedtime but DH and I go to bed by 9:30 and we need some downtime too.  We're getting to the point where we are going to start taking away privileges, such as her leap pad or maybe not going to the library.  I need to think through some other options as well!   The worst part is that her younger sister hears her banging around and opening/shutting her door and how has started to do the same thing (though she really does need the sleep and has no trouble falling asleep most of the time!). No real advice, just wanted to commiserate.   

Well, always helpful knowing we're not alone

[erbear]

Jun 30, 2015 11:07:20 GMT -5 cjeanette said:

Does she have a nightlight. E is not good at falling asleep so she keeps her closet light on and will read or play quietly. As long as she stays in her room I don't care.

She has a nightlight and I leave the hall light on. Doesn't seem to matter. I'm fine with her in her room but not sleeping. I'm not fine with the two hours of drama.

[erbear]

Jun 30, 2015 10:33:12 GMT -5 @tokenhoser said:

Do you have an old baby monitor around you could use so she can hear you when you're not in the vicinity?

Ferber's book has chapters for older kids, too. If you have that book, dust it off. I'd also move her bedtime closer to when she's falling asleep (so if it's been 10 pm lately, put her to bed at 9 or 9:30, not 8). You might be able to move that earlier in a few days when you've got a better routine.

I remember that, but I gave my Ferber book away. I might bite the bullet and get a new one.

I don't want to move her bedtime too far back. I am home with them all day right now (DH works 8a-7:30p, I'm a teacher) and by 8:00, I need some alone time.

[cjeanette]

Jun 30, 2015 16:42:58 GMT -5 erbear said:

Jun 30, 2015 11:07:20 GMT -5 cjeanette said:

Does she have a nightlight. E is not good at falling asleep so she keeps her closet light on and will read or play quietly. As long as she stays in her room I don't care.

She has a nightlight and I leave the hall light on. Doesn't seem to matter. I'm fine with her in her room but not sleeping. I'm not fine with the two hours of drama.

Sometimes I will ask her which books she wants and put them in her bed.  In her mind its like giving her permission to stay awake and she stays in bed reading.

[erbear]

Jun 30, 2015 16:52:28 GMT -5 cjeanette said:

Jun 30, 2015 16:42:58 GMT -5 erbear said:

She has a nightlight and I leave the hall light on. Doesn't seem to matter. I'm fine with her in her room but not sleeping. I'm not fine with the two hours of drama.

Sometimes I will ask her which books she wants and put them in her bed.  In her mind its like giving her permission to stay awake and she stays in bed reading.

Thank you. It's worth a shot!