So we talked...

[SwimDeep]

This is word vomit...but I have to get it out so I can process it.

I should really say he talked. He thinks I'm taking the easy way out instead of doing the things he thinks I should do in order to save our relationship. I'm stubborn, and if I would just stop fighting and arguing all the time we wouldn't have so many arguments. I'm not a decent human being because I didn't bring the subject up the right way (I did kind of blurt it out there).

Why should he try to do anything for us/me when I'm not willing to do anything for him?

He claimed he agreed a long time ago that he would go to counseling with me if I did certain things (eat better, exercise, and stop drinking). He called that a compromise. I called them conditions that I agreed to out of desperation.

He doesn't understand why now - now that he has a job and is sober - I don't want to try anymore. Since he's had a job, our fights have been worse. I think because I'm extremely sensitive to any hint of control or manipulation. Could be a power struggle too.

I brought up the criticism, the anger, the resentments. He said he has a lot of those too. He told me I would get lonely and that I was removing myself from the only people who truly supported me (him and his family).

There was more, but these are the highlights I remember. I ended up getting so anxious during the conversation that I threw up (something that's been happening more often lately).

[partiallysunny]

He sounds so manipulative, Swimmy.

It's okay to be done. Sometimes the relationship just can't be fixed. There is too much resentment and anger to move past. His personal growth shouldn't depend on you (or your weight and eating habits).

How did you leave things?

[doglove]

So he turned it all around on you?? OH HELL NO. This sounds all too familiar SwimDeep. The faster you can get out of this situation, the better for your mental health. You are not responsible for fixing/holding together and making the marriage work all on your own. He knows that you beat yourself up so he's banking on the fact that if he puts you down and makes you feel responsible, you will stay. THIS IS NOT HEALTHY. GET TO A NEW THERAPIST ASAP. You don't to have to live like this, you do not have to prove to him or anyone that you are worthy of love and respect.

[SwimDeep]

partiallysunny - I agreed to go with him to a combined al-anon/aa meeting that happens on Saturday nights (I'm kind of kicking myself for that now, but at the time I was pretty worn down and feeling extremely uncertain of myself).

I'm going to finish putting my plan together to move out. He keeps saying he'll move all his work stuff into his own car so I can have my car back, but he hasn't done it yet. I won't be able to actually go look at apartments until he does.

[cuddlyevil]

ITA with partiallysunny.

I'm glad you recognized that they were conditions. You can't say "In order for me to do ______, you need to do ______". If he really wanted to work on things, he would've said "yes, let's go. We'll figure this out".

[ECB]

Jul 1, 2015 7:45:36 GMT -5 SwimDeep said:

He keeps saying he'll move all his work stuff into his own car so I can have my car back, but he hasn't done it yet. I won't be able to actually go look at apartments until he does.

Why can't you move his stuff?  Why can't you drive your car w/ the stuff in it? 

Don't let this become a roadblock of HIS creation.  Give him a deadline to clear it all out and if he doesnt, you do it.  

[tiramisu]

I look forward to the day you're able to re-read this and see clearly the abuse. He did the same manipulative bullshit he's always done, which tells you that he isn't really interested in changing. He's interested in keeping you within his control. Oh please with this "if you did everything my way things would be fine" bullshit.

Honestly, your family manipulated and abused you and so has he. Moving on without them will be strange and hard but it will be SO MUCH BETTER in the end. I predict that your anxiety will decrease significantly.

Also, just because you agreed to go to a meeting doesn't mean you need to go through with that. You can change your mind, that's okay. And I say get all his work crap out of your car and put it in a box for him. He's not going to take it out because that's another way he can control you.

One last thing (for now): there's no good way to bring this kind of thing up. So fuck his "you didn't do it the way I think you should've so lalalalalala I can't hear you" bullshit.

[partiallysunny]

Jul 1, 2015 7:45:36 GMT -5 SwimDeep said:

partiallysunny - I agreed to go with him to a combined al-anon/aa meeting that happens on Saturday nights (I'm kind of kicking myself for that now, but at the time I was pretty worn down and feeling extremely uncertain of myself).

I'm going to finish putting my plan together to move out. He keeps saying he'll move all his work stuff into his own car so I can have my car back, but he hasn't done it yet. I won't be able to actually go look at apartments until he does.

Going to an AA meeting won't hurt anything. Go for yourself.

As for the car: no more excuses. Pack his shit in a box and take your car back. No more waiting on him.

[doglove]

Jul 1, 2015 7:56:28 GMT -5 tiramisu said:

I look forward to the day you're able to re-read this and see clearly the abuse. He did the same manipulative bullshit he's always done, which tells you that he isn't really interested in changing. He's interested in keeping you within his control. Oh please with this "if you did everything my way things would be fine" bullshit.

Honestly, your family manipulated and abused you and so has he. Moving on without them will be strange and hard but it will be SO MUCH BETTER in the end. I predict that your anxiety will decrease significantly.

Also, just because you agreed to go to a meeting doesn't mean you need to go through with that. You can change your mind, that's okay. And I say get all his work crap out of your car and put it in a box for him. He's not going to take it out because that's another way he can control you.

One last thing (for now): there's no good way to bring this kind of thing up. So fuck his "you didn't do it the way I think you should've so lalalalalala I can't hear you" bullshit.

Right, I completely agree. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PROVE YOURSELF TO BE LOVED AND RESPECTED. You do not have to be a certain size, exercise, eat a certain way, look a certain way, do particular things to be loved. You have the right to be loved right now for who you are. I hope one day you can get to the point where you see and understand that.

[SwimDeep]

I think I should have been more clear about the car - he's driving it to/from work, so I don't have access to it at all during the day.
I would drive his, but I can't drive a stick.

Thank you everyone so much for helping me think this through. I'm so torn up right now I'm not thinking clearly at all.

[tiramisu]

SwimDeep I think the only thing on your to-do list today, besides making it through the day one minute/hour at a time, is calling your old therapist to see if she has an opening for you.

Also, him driving your car and leaving you with one you can't drive is another way he controls you.

[bullygirl979]

Everyone already gave you REALLY good feedback so I will just offer you a hug. Get out, swimdeep.

[cuddlyevil]

Jul 1, 2015 7:58:36 GMT -5 doglove said:

Jul 1, 2015 7:56:28 GMT -5 tiramisu said:

Right, I completely agree. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PROVE YOURSELF TO BE LOVED AND RESPECTED. You do not have to be a certain size, exercise, eat a certain way, look a certain way, do particular things to be loved. You have the right to be loved right now for who you are. I hope one day you can get to the point where you see and understand that.

I'm just bolding this for emphasis because it's all true.

[partiallysunny]

Jul 1, 2015 8:17:47 GMT -5 tiramisu said:

Also, him driving your car and leaving you with one you can't drive is another way he controls you.

yep. Why isn't he driving his own car!?

[ECB]

O.k. - I'm really baffled about the car situation. how did it come about that he uses your car and leaves you at home w/ a car you can't drive? I agree- that screams of "control".

[tiramisu]

I don't think I've shared this with you before. It might help you stay strong and realize subtle ways he's trying to control you.

powercontrolwheelnoshading.pdf (83.92 KB)

[neonpink]

Why is he driving your car? I'd get your car back and your freedom with it tonight. He's making me so angry for you. Your life is worth way more than how it is right now.

[SwimDeep]

Jul 1, 2015 9:43:42 GMT -5 tiramisu said:

I don't think I've shared this with you before. It might help you stay strong and realize subtle ways he's trying to control you.

I needed to see this...I'm definitely doubting myself right now. Things he said keep replaying in my head.

He's right that's he's worked really hard to turn himself around. But our relationship is still manipulative. It's been manipulative for so long I don't think it can ever be anything else. And a large part of that is me, but I'm not going to be able to work on my vulnerability to manipulation until I'm out of this manipulative environment.

God...this is hard.

[SwimDeep]

ECB and neonpink
More about the car:

His car broke down, and it was several months before we could afford to fix it. We repaired it a couple of months ago, but by that time the routine of him using my car had set in and become the norm.

I argued with him about it a couple of weeks ago, and he told me he would switch back to his car. He just hasn't done it yet.

[partiallysunny]

Jul 1, 2015 10:08:37 GMT -5 SwimDeep said:

Jul 1, 2015 9:43:42 GMT -5 tiramisu said:

I don't think I've shared this with you before. It might help you stay strong and realize subtle ways he's trying to control you.

I needed to see this...I'm definitely doubting myself right now. Things he said keep replaying in my head.

He's right that's he's worked really hard to turn himself around. But our relationship is still manipulative. It's been manipulative for so long I don't think it can ever be anything else. And a large part of that is me, but I'm not going to be able to work on my vulnerability to manipulation until I'm out of this manipulative environment.

God...this is hard.

This mindset? I can't like enough. It sucks. It really does. But realizing you can't stop the cycle without getting out of the environment is so SO important.

You got this, Swimmy.

[tiramisu]

Jul 1, 2015 10:08:37 GMT -5 SwimDeep said:

Jul 1, 2015 9:43:42 GMT -5 tiramisu said:

I don't think I've shared this with you before. It might help you stay strong and realize subtle ways he's trying to control you.

I needed to see this...I'm definitely doubting myself right now. Things he said keep replaying in my head.

He's right that's he's worked really hard to turn himself around. But our relationship is still manipulative. It's been manipulative for so long I don't think it can ever be anything else. And a large part of that is me, but I'm not going to be able to work on my vulnerability to manipulation until I'm out of this manipulative environment.

God...this is hard.

Something to think about: how long has been been trying so hard vs how long has he been manipulating and controlling you? What prompted him to decide to try? And hope much progress has he made if he still argues with and manipulates you?

[doglove]

Jul 1, 2015 10:08:37 GMT -5 SwimDeep said:

Jul 1, 2015 9:43:42 GMT -5 tiramisu said:

I don't think I've shared this with you before. It might help you stay strong and realize subtle ways he's trying to control you.

I needed to see this...I'm definitely doubting myself right now. Things he said keep replaying in my head.

He's right that's he's worked really hard to turn himself around. But our relationship is still manipulative. It's been manipulative for so long I don't think it can ever be anything else. And a large part of that is me, but I'm not going to be able to work on my vulnerability to manipulation until I'm out of this manipulative environment.

God...this is hard.

No, no no. He has not turned himself around, he's made you think that. He is the same as he always has been. Doing and saying what he needs to get what he wants. Also, you are manipulative because that's how you have to survive in this situation. You are not the large part and cause of the problems in your marriage, he has only convinced you that you are to blame. 

[ECB]

Jul 1, 2015 10:24:23 GMT -5 doglove said:

Jul 1, 2015 10:08:37 GMT -5 SwimDeep said:

I needed to see this...I'm definitely doubting myself right now. Things he said keep replaying in my head.

He's right that's he's worked really hard to turn himself around. But our relationship is still manipulative. It's been manipulative for so long I don't think it can ever be anything else. And a large part of that is me, but I'm not going to be able to work on my vulnerability to manipulation until I'm out of this manipulative environment.

God...this is hard.

No, no no. He has not turned himself around, he's made you think that. He is the same as he always has been. Doing and saying what he needs to get what he wants. Also, you are manipulative because that's how you have to survive in this situation. You are not the large part and cause of the problems in your marriage, he has only convinced you that you are to blame. 

I agree.  he's taken steps - gotten a job and is sober.  That's great - it really is.  BUT it isn't your relationship that is manipulative, it's HIM.  100% him.  And he's digging in his heels HARD to take the steps needed to work on this and turn this aspect of his life around.  He still has a lot more to do to "turn himself around".

[lyssbobiss, Command, B613]

He sounds like a manipulative, selfish little jerk. I'm sorry he made every issue about you.

[gault]

His car works now but he's still using yours? Put his stuff in his own car. Your car is yours.

You need to take care of yourself, and step one is getting out of this awful situation. Please get out soon. We're here for you.

When I left my marriage, I was so terrified of confronting him in person because I knew, I KNEW, that he would manipulate me into staying or twist my words around and make me seem like the bad guy and I would feel terrible and I would stay.
I ended up taking the afternoon off of work, packing my shit, leaving him a letter detailing that I was leaving and a few reasons why, and had a girlfriend come with her minivan so I could leave. If you need to do something like that, it's okay. Do what you need to do to get out of that situation.

ETA: There's a book I read while in the divorce process called "Why Does He Do That?" and discusses the many types of manipulative men and how to recognize their behaviors. It was a great book to read simply because I didn't feel alone in my situation anymore. And that, in fact, this ISN'T about what I did or didn't do correctly, but that the core of him was just rotten. That relief was incredible. I'd suggest you pick it up and see if it helps.

[SwimDeep]

I have a day off this Friday. I'm off Monday too. It'll hit my bank account, but I have enough in savings to manage. I've made a list of available apartments to check out.

I've gathered my credit cards, files, papers and what not... I'm doing pretty good to not look too many steps ahead of myself.

Appointment with the therapist on Thursday (first opening she had available).

I feel so sick.

[SwimDeep]

gault - I've thought about just leaving a letter. Maybe that's what I should have done.

It's out in the open now. And I'll be out soon.

[cuddlyevil]

Jul 1, 2015 12:35:02 GMT -5 SwimDeep said:

I have a day off this Friday. I'm off Monday too. It'll hit my bank account, but I have enough in savings to manage. I've made a list of available apartments to check out.

I've gathered my credit cards, files, papers and what not... I'm doing pretty good to not look too many steps ahead of myself.

Appointment with the therapist on Thursday (first opening she had available).

I feel so sick.

You're making excellent progress here! And feeling sick is normal but I promise you that feeling will go away once you're in your own place. It will start to go away once you make more steps to get out. 

[neonpink]

Hugs you've got this.

[riverpestie]

Sending you good thoughts!! You're an awesome person!


Freak him out by learning how to drive the stick! Take it to his work, transfer all the crap and get your car back.