Don't Call Kids 'Smart'

[summer]

I was going to roll my eyes at this, but the thing about mistakes really resonated, particularly because DD1 has serious perfectionist tendencies that hold her back.

www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/06/the-s-word/397205/

ASPEN, Colo.—At whatever age smart people develop the idea that they are smart, they also tend to develop vulnerability around relinquishing that label. So the difference between telling a kid “You did a great job” and “You are smart” isn’t subtle. That is, at least, according to one growing movement in education and parenting that advocates for retirement of “the S word.”



The idea is that when we praise kids for being smart, those kids think: Oh good, I'm smart. And then later, when those kids mess up, which they will, they think: Oh no, I'm not smart after all. People will think I’m not smart after all. And that’s the worst. That’s a risk to avoid, they learn.“Smart” kids stand to become especially averse to making mistakes, which are critical to learning and succeeding.



“Mistakes grow your brain,” as the professor of mathematics education at Stanford University Jo Boaler put it on Monday at the Aspen Ideas Festival, a festival of ideas in Aspen, Colorado, co-hosted by The Atlantic. I wondered why, then, my brain is not so distended that it spills out of my ears and nose. I should have to stuff it back inside like a sleeping bag, and I should have to carry Q-tips around during social events as stuffing implements. Boaler notes, more eloquently, that at least a small part of the forebrain called the thalamus can appreciably grow after periods of the sort of cognitive stimulation involved in mistake-making. What matters for improving performance is that a person is challenged, which requires a mindset that is receptive to being challenged—if not actively seeking out challenge and failure. And that may be the most important thing a teacher can impart.




People are born with some innate cognitive differences, but those differences are eclipsed by early achievement, Boaler argues. When people perform well (academically or otherwise) at early ages and are labeled smart or gifted, they become less likely to challenge themselves. They become less likely to make mistakes, because they stay in their comfortable comfort zone and stop growing. And their fixed mindset persists through adulthood. The simple and innocent praising of a smart kid feeds an insidious problem that some researchers track all the way up to gender inequality in STEM careers.



So ending the reign of the S word, as Boaler calls it, is a grand mission. “It's imperative that we don’t praise kids by telling them they’re smart,” she argued in a Monday lecture to an audience that received her message with many knowing nods. “You can tell kids that they’ve done something fantastic, but don’t label them as smart.”





The idea of a fixed mindset, in which people are smart or not smart, stands in contrast to a growth mindset, in which people become intelligent and knowledgeable through practice. In her 2006 book The New Psychology of Success, psychologist Carol Dweck described the two: People with growth mindsets believe that the harder they work, the smarter they get. And the subtleties of the ways in which we praise kids are related to the mindsets those kids develop.



The group most damaged by fixed-mindset thinking is high-achieving girls, Boaler argues, because it’s girls who are told by society that they probably won’t be as good as boys at math and science. That means girls are only more likely to avoid challenging themselves in science and math, and that aversion to making mistakes leads to less learning and progress. The more that certain disciplines cling to ideas of giftedness, the fewer female Ph.D.s there are in those fields.




“When we give kids the message that mistakes are good, that successful people make mistakes, it can change their entire trajectory,” Boaler said. 100 percent is not an ideal score. When kids come home from school and announce that they got everything right on their school work, Dweck advises parents to offer some sympathy: Oh, I’m sorry you didn't get the chance to learn.



Speaking of percentages, math is a good example of the importance of avoiding the fixed mindset. The idea of a “math person” or a math gene is a primary reason for so much math nihilism, math failure, and “math trauma,” as Boaler called it on Monday. When kids get the idea that they “aren’t math people,” they start a downward trajectory, and their career options shrink immediately and substantially. There is also the common idea of a wall in math: People learn math until they hit a wall where they just can’t keep up. That wall may be trigonometry, and it may be advanced calculus, and it may be calculating a tip. In no other discipline but math are people so given to thinking, instead of I need to practice, just Well, I’m not good.



“Big news,” Boaler said during her lecture, “there is no wall.”



With that, she advanced her Powerpoint and to a slide bearing a rendering of the Kool-Aid Man busting through a brick wall.



“I didn’t know who this was,” she said. “One of my teammates made this slide. I’ve learned that this is Kool-Aid Man.”

[hopecounts]

Agree, praise effort not traits.
My smart (high IQ) brother is doing the worst of us siblings because he hit 'the wall' in college and for the first time couldn't sit in class and make A's and he had no ability to either deal with the fact that it wasn't coming easy OR study skills to do better so he crashed and burned.

[tres3]

I try to praise my kids creativity and effort vs intellect.

[Deleted]

College was super rough for me and I didn't do especially well. I did get a ton out of it and got a degree though. And I have done very well in the professional world, so it all worked out.

I remember knowing I was smart in 2nd grade. In some ways it did help maintain self esteem because while I always had friends, I wasn't a popular kid. And I was really bad at sports and I wasn't pretty. So it was something. Can one get a good sense of self-esteem from grit? Maybe the can and that would be better. I don't know.

[wawa]

I want to nod along to this because I hate being wrong and always have - I tend not to speak up unless I'm fairly confident of my answer, and if I'm not 100% sure I always offer up disclaimers.  I've also always been told I'm smart.  Cuz I am.  (modest too)  So, those two things make sense together.

But! I'm just as hesitant to publicly screw up with sports and I've always sucked at those and have never been told that I was good at them. 

So....I dunno man.  I think there's plenty of people who just don't like to be wrong as a personality trait.

Also I hit my math wall in 3rd grade with the multiplication tables and just moseyed around it and proceeded to kick ass at every other level of math up through college calculus.  Still don't have the times tables memorized.

But fuck, what do I know.  I just told my kid last night that she was being bossy so clearly I can't be taught how to do this parenting thing right anyway.

[cookiemdough]

I get the idea but this part:

"When we give kids the message that mistakes are good, that successful people make mistakes, it can change their entire trajectory,” Boaler said. 100 percent is not an ideal score. When kids come home from school and announce that they got everything right on their school work, Dweck advises parents to offer some sympathy: Oh, I’m sorry you didn't get the chance to learn.

?Made me giggle. There has got to be a better response or way to teach that mistakes are good if you use it as an opportunity to grow and learn.

[oliviapope]

Jul 1, 2015 7:55:11 GMT -5 Lucy Honeychurch said:

The one thing I'll say about this is that while I don't think calling a kid smart is a bad thing, nor did it really make me shy away from trying difficult things, it DID kind of pigeonhole me a bit. Sometimes parents tend to label their children according to one trait or another. My sister was the practical one, the sporty one, the stable one. I was the smart one, the musical one, the wild card.

After my sister's divorce, she became pretty UNstable, and IMpractical; and by default I turned into the stable, practical one. It's thrown us all for a loop, even twenty years after leaving home.

I would agree with this, I was the smart one, my sister the funny one or sweet one. It was fine for me growing up, but I know it was hard for her to have me always being referred to as the smart one. Even now, my other sister will comment on how smart my son is (personally, I think he's average lol) because he's just like me. 

I'm in college now and it is so tough for me, I'm not used to having to try so hard. Grade school was cake, I didn't try and still made A's. 

[IIOY]

This idea has been floating around for a while, and I've made a concerted effort to praise my kids' efforts.   I was always praised for my intelligence and I certainly fall into the "scared to fail" category.  But, anecdotes.

Both of my kids are incredibly hard on themselves, although DD has quite the ego and is convinced she can accomplish anything she sets her mind to, which seems lovely except she will tell H or me (or other adults) we are wrong about something when we aren't.  :?  I'm assuming she has a future as a lawyer, banker, or politician.*  I actually do worry about my son because he is so sensitive about failure.  I'm just not sure crafting my praise in a particular way is going to make a big enough dent to overcome what clearly is an innate trait.

*ETA: FWIW, DD is always chanting that mistakes are good and provide learning opportunities, blah blah blah, but she will still fight tooth and nail to avoid admitting she has made one.  Again, I'm not sure words can overcome innate qualities.

[arch01]

Jul 1, 2015 7:45:23 GMT -5 pennypenny said:

I get what this is saying, but I hate these types of articles. Parenting. You are always doing it wrong.

Yep.

I get it, but yeah, we will say to DS that he's smart sometimes. We also talk to him about mistakes and tell him that they happen and it's ok, and that's how we learn. 

It slips out. Right now I'm more focused on not letting language slip out that I don't want him using. Apparently I should be focusing on not letting "smart" slip out so I have one less thing in the column of "ways I fucked up my kid".

[omgzombies]

There's a chapter in the book Nurture Shock that goes into this, they mention a couple studies that support this view. It's a great read if you're interested in childhood development. They talk about discussing race with kids, girl vs. boy merchandise, intellect, etc. I found the book fascinating.

I still tell my daughter she is smart, I also tell her she is creative, beautiful, funny, and strong. I'm not worried about my daughter becoming vain because I occasionally tell her she's beautiful, or that she's going to become hesitant to try to test her strength because I praise it. I do emphasize that we become smart by studying and exercising our brain, and don't focus on it as an innate trait. Well also repeatedly tell her that it's ok to make mistakes, and that doesn't mean you are bad at something, everyone needs practice to become better. I can see so much of my perfectionist self in her already, I'm trying to get that into her head now.

[IIOY]

Jul 1, 2015 8:18:35 GMT -5 omgzombies said:

There's a chapter in the book Nurture Shock that goes into this, they mention a couple studies that support this view. It's a great read if you're interested in childhood development. They talk about discussing race with kids, girl vs. boy merchandise, intellect, etc. I found the book fascinating.

I really should re-read this book now that my kids are older.  It was so interesting.

[juliette21]

You know what's worse than a kid who thinks s/he's smart? A kid who thinks they are stupid. 

I literally said out loud, "oh come on!" while reading this article. The "S" word could take a kid who's struggling and has low self-esteem, and make him feel better about himself and keep trying and applying himself even when the schoolwork/task/whatever is hard.

My DS1 has ADHD, and he had a very bad first year in Kindergarten. He would come home and tell us he's "not smart" and "not a good reader" when trying to learn how to read. It broke my heart. I tell him he's smart when he accomplishes something, and he is so proud of himself when I say that. And I also tell him he needs to listen to his teachers and be a good boy during the school day, so he can keep learning new things and become even smarter. 

This article was so oversimplified, it's kind of ridiculous.

[racegrrl714]

Jul 1, 2015 7:40:36 GMT -5 hopecounts said:

Agree, praise effort not traits.
My smart (high IQ) brother is doing the worst of us siblings because he hit 'the wall' in college and for the first time couldn't sit in class and make A's and he had no ability to either deal with the fact that it wasn't coming easy OR study skills to do better so he crashed and burned.

I did this very same thing in college. I relate to this article very much so.

[leeba25]

Jul 1, 2015 8:18:35 GMT -5 omgzombies said:

There's a chapter in the book Nurture Shock that goes into this, they mention a couple studies that support this view. It's a great read if you're interested in childhood development. They talk about discussing race with kids, girl vs. boy merchandise, intellect, etc. I found the book fascinating.

Yes. I read it a while ago, so I may get some points wrong, but I think that chapter in the book focused more on why calling a kid "smart" downgrades the emphasis on their efforts, which is really the more important part of success. A brilliantly smart kid can be a screwup if they aren't trying to do right and do well, just like a kid of average intelligence can be a star student because they're trying so hard. It talked about how if you focus on "smart," the kid thinks they don't have to try as hard, because smart is something you just *are.* Whereas if you're praising their efforts - even their mistakes - then you're actually praising (rewarding) what has the bigger impact on achievement. 

[alexis]

Jul 1, 2015 8:23:35 GMT -5 cjoy said:

“When we give kids the message that mistakes are good, that successful people make mistakes, it can change their entire trajectory,” Boaler said. 100 percent is not an ideal score. When kids come home from school and announce that they got everything right on their school work, Dweck advises parents to offer some sympathy: Oh, I’m sorry you didn't get the chance to learn.


Dude, no. I realize I was raised with a different mindset than what this person is advocating, but come on. I would have flipped my shit if I came home as a kid with a perfect score and my mom had said "Oh, sorry you didn't get the chance to learn." No bitch, I learned ALL OF IT.

That's what I was thinking about this part. This sounds like a great way to devalue your child's accomplishments and teach them they shouldn't strive to be their best.

I mean if they're getting 100s all the time, it would probably be good to find a way to challenge them, but telling then you're so sorry they've mastered the material is still horrible.

In tenth grade I got a 100 on a test about rotating parabola. Everyone else in my class did very poorly and I was so jazzed to have done so well on what was considered the hardest test of the year. I would have been incredibly hurt if my parents had diminished that.

[hopecounts]

Jul 1, 2015 8:38:25 GMT -5 alexis said:

Jul 1, 2015 8:23:35 GMT -5 cjoy said:

“When we give kids the message that mistakes are good, that successful people make mistakes, it can change their entire trajectory,” Boaler said. 100 percent is not an ideal score. When kids come home from school and announce that they got everything right on their school work, Dweck advises parents to offer some sympathy: Oh, I’m sorry you didn't get the chance to learn.


Dude, no. I realize I was raised with a different mindset than what this person is advocating, but come on. I would have flipped my shit if I came home as a kid with a perfect score and my mom had said "Oh, sorry you didn't get the chance to learn." No bitch, I learned ALL OF IT.

That's what I was thinking about this part. This sounds like a great way to devalue your child's accomplishments and teach them they shouldn't strive to be their best.

I mean if they're getting 100s all the time, it would probably be good to find a way to challenge them, but telling then you're so sorry they've mastered the material is still horrible.

In tenth grade I got a 100 on a test about rotating parabola. Everyone else in my class did very poorly and I was so jazzed to have done so well on what was considered the hardest test of the year. I would have been incredibly hurt if my parents had diminished that.

I do think the article goes too far on that point.
I would congratulate them and focus on the homework/studying they did to get that grade. 

[cookiemdough]

Can't we do both? Say the S word and praise accomplishments?

Lolol we are taking parenting to another level.

[sfy]

I actually agree with this. Years ago on NPR, I heard about a study with two groups of students, each given the same project. Each group received praise before and during their work--Group A was praised for being very smart, Group B was praised for being hard workers. Group A ultimately gave up on the project without completing it, while Group B continued to work on it several minutes longer and completed the project successfully.

I notice a similar dynamic in my own family. My mother has said for quite some time that I'm smart like my father and she and my sister are hard workers. Objectively speaking, my father and I tend to expect things to come easy for us, we don't like hard work and we think we can charm our way out of anything. We're basically the used car salespeople of the family lol. My sister and my mother are more successful on paper, to be sure, they do work hard and also have more ambition.

[juliette21]

So if children/people aspire to become the labels that are placed upon them, then shouldn't we be telling our kids they are both smart and hard workers? Problem solved, right? LOL

[lingome]

Jul 1, 2015 8:46:56 GMT -5 cookiemdough said:

Can't we do both? Say the S word and praise accomplishments?

Lolol we are taking parenting to another level.

The idea is that it has everything to do with the growth mindset. Fully instilling the growth mindset means that you DO have to drop the idea that a child is inherently smart. It's a challenge simply because we're not used to that concept within our culture. Instead, it's ALL about highlighting that success is entirely about how you take on challenges, the fact that hard work is what will get you places, that smart is something you BECOME.

[lingome]

Jul 1, 2015 9:03:05 GMT -5 juliette21 said:

So if children/people aspire to become the labels that are placed upon them, then shouldn't we be telling our kids they are both smart and hard workers? Problem solved, right? LOL

Again, it's a difficult concept to understand because it's not prevalent in our culture. But really, you're not supposed to label the child as anything at all*. only the behavior - their effort - as what shapes their accomplishments. 

*There is a different line of thinking when it comes to morality and labeling a child as a "good person". THAT is something that you are supposed to praise as inherent. It's just works differently psychologically. Did I originally see that article posted here? I will try to dig it up.

ETA: www.nytimes.com/2014/04/12/opinion/sunday/raising-a-moral-child.html?_r=2

[hopecounts]

Jul 1, 2015 9:03:05 GMT -5 juliette21 said:

So if children/people aspire to become the labels that are placed upon them, then shouldn't we be telling our kids they are both smart and hard workers? Problem solved, right? LOL

Being 'smart' is an external locus of control label, you can't control it, being a 'hardworker' is an internal locus of control.
By praising effort you are telling a kid that they have ownership of their success or failure, when you tell them they are smart you are telling them whether they are successful or not is not in their control.
This sets them up for a big crash when smart is no longer enough to make them successful and they have to power through and work hard. 
It's kind of an either or situation, at least for younger kids who are black and white thinkers.  

[eclaires]

Jul 1, 2015 8:04:59 GMT -5 wawa said:

I want to nod along to this because I hate being wrong and always have - I tend not to speak up unless I'm fairly confident of my answer, and if I'm not 100% sure I always offer up disclaimers.  I've also always been told I'm smart.  Cuz I am.  (modest too)  So, those two things make sense together.

But! I'm just as hesitant to publicly screw up with sports and I've always sucked at those and have never been told that I was good at them. 

So....I dunno man.  I think there's plenty of people who just don't like to be wrong as a personality trait.

Also I hit my math wall in 3rd grade with the multiplication tables and just moseyed around it and proceeded to kick ass at every other level of math up through college calculus.  Still don't have the times tables memorized.

But fuck, what do I know.  I just told my kid last night that she was being bossy so clearly I can't be taught how to do this parenting thing right anyway.

I regularly refer to Scarlett as Fräulein Bossypants which is a carry over from her infancy when we called her Fräulein Hitler.

But anyway I agree with what you said, I think some of that is a personality trait. Both Jackson and I are like that and I can't really figure out why. MH and Scarlett are much more confident, and I would say we are all very intelligent. I've always second guessed myself if I'm not 100% sure. I'm not sure MH has ever second guessed himself in his life. He is supremely confident in his abilities and intelligence. And even though I know I am smart, I rarely don't think twice if I'm not 100% sure I'm right. I also hate trying new things in front of people.

[redwino]

I'm in the do both camp. I likely will tell my children they are smart because I believe they live in a society that is constantly telling them the opposite. I will also tell my dd that's she's beautiful because she's rarely going to hear it from anywhere else or see images that look like her described as such. I think praising effort has value so I don't disagree with the article. I just have a hard time accepting that telling a child she is smart will be harmful.

[omgzombies]

Jul 1, 2015 9:31:58 GMT -5 hopecounts said:

Jul 1, 2015 9:03:05 GMT -5 juliette21 said:

So if children/people aspire to become the labels that are placed upon them, then shouldn't we be telling our kids they are both smart and hard workers? Problem solved, right? LOL

Being 'smart' is an external locus of control label, you can't control it, being a 'hardworker' is an internal locus of control.
By praising effort you are telling a kid that they have ownership of their success or failure, when you tell them they are smart you are telling them whether they are successful or not is not in their control.
This sets them up for a big crash when smart is no longer enough to make them successful and they have to power through and work hard. 
It's kind of an either or situation, at least for younger kids who are black and white thinkers.  

I think this is where we as a society struggle.  Simply because we think of being smart as beyond your control, but I think to a large extent you can (assuming you have the environment in which to do so, like any skill).  If you practice, if you read and use critical thinking skills on the regular, force yourself to adapt and do problem solving, the average person will get better at those things, all of which are metrics of "being smart".  

This also sort of dovetails into the idea that girls are inherently better at English and social studies, while boys are better at Math and Science. 

[downtoearth]

Jul 1, 2015 8:51:11 GMT -5 sfy said:

I actually agree with this. Years ago on NPR, I heard about a study with two groups of students, each given the same project. Each group received praise before and during their work--Group A was praised for being very smart, Group B was praised for being hard workers. Group A ultimately gave up on the project without completing it, while Group B continued to work on it several minutes longer and completed the project successfully.

I notice a similar dynamic in my own family. My mother has said for quite some time that I'm smart like my father and she and my sister are hard workers. Objectively speaking, my father and I tend to expect things to come easy for us, we don't like hard work and we think we can charm our way out of anything. We're basically the used car salespeople of the family lol. My sister and my mother are more successful on paper, to be sure, they do work hard and also have more ambition.

I agree with this, but I also think that when you are smart (told or not told), things ARE easy at first, so when they stop being so easy, it takes some adjustment to realize that other people haven't had them easy up until then and learn the ability to adapt or change later in life.

I mean, I get the article, and it's better for teachers than parents IMO. Teachers almost always focus on the work or effort, not calling kids smart and so I'm okay with the occasional moment when I'm like, "You're very smart, I'm sure you can figure it out," comes out of my mouth when talking to my kid.

[twohearted]

Jul 1, 2015 7:40:36 GMT -5 hopecounts said:

Agree, praise effort not traits.
My smart (high IQ) brother is doing the worst of us siblings because he hit 'the wall' in college and for the first time couldn't sit in class and make A's and he had no ability to either deal with the fact that it wasn't coming easy OR study skills to do better so he crashed and burned.

I'm not saying this is the case, but I went to a lecture about learning disabilities that present later in life. Some individuals who have high intelligence and good coping skills can manage a learning disability for quite a long time and do exceptionally well. But as more gets added to their plate and expectations grow their disability can come to light when their coping strategies are no longer sufficient. It was something I had never considered.

[twohearted]

This was taught in my intro psych class in college and while I try to praise effort I find it incredibly difficult sometimes. It is such a knee jerk reaction to tell my son how smart he is sometimes.

[wawa]

I'm looking at somebody like Ms. Sou there talking down her smarts and I'm realizing that I apparently have an excessive amount of self-esteem when it comes to my brain. I'm not saying I'm the smartest chickadee on the block, certainly NASA employs a number of people that blow me out of the water - but I'm smart. I know it. It's basically an unshakeable part of my self image. I'm smart just like I have brown eyes and the fact that I'm not the smartest at EVERYTHING doesn't change that.

So I'm not sure if that means my mom failed or succeeded?

[IIOY]

Jul 1, 2015 14:49:39 GMT -5 pennypenny said:

Jul 1, 2015 9:49:13 GMT -5 @soudesafinado said:

Ugh! I was the "smart" kid. I started reading at 3, skipped first grade, things came easily to me and I never developed study skills and always felt like homework was busy work and wondered why people needed to spend all that time reading their notes and shit, were they stupid? And then I met actual smart people and realized that I am at best above average intelligence not a Mensa candidate and that was very eye opening. 

I remember my mom telling me once that I got the best of both my parents and too much came easily to me while my brother had to struggle for everything and that I should work harder on principle because one day the field would level out. 

This is exactly me and my brother. It wasn't until these boards that I realized I am not that smart. And it sucked when my cousin's parents would compare them to me smart-wise because it just pissed them off and made them pissed at me.

What? No.  First of all, with a relatively large and diverse group, you are going to have one or two people who specialize in whatever is being discussed, so they chime in when appropriate and it raises the IQ of the entire board.  Second of all, people are mad googling before they post.  Don't even feel bad.