Dairy Questions

[spunkarella]

Tagging @justdairy because I didn't want to totally hijack the other thread.

Why does organic milk taste richer? Is this in my head? I swear that 0% organic tastes like 2% regular. And 2% organic tastes like whole regular.

Also, why is the expiration date on organic so much longer than regular milk? I mostly notice this with cartons of organic vs jugs of regular. Is it the carton or the milk?

[smock]

Organic milk definitely tastes better/richer. I have no idea why! Is it because of what the cows are eating?

[genet313]

It's not in your head, it's actually way better.  I agree- 2% organic is like a smoothie.   Even skim organic doesn't have that gross pale gray color, it's nice and richly white.  I tell myself it's b/c the cows are happier!

Usually organic milk is ultra-pasteurized so it lasts longer.  If you want organic milk that's not ultra-pasteurized you can usually find some at places like Whole Foods, but it's generally very expensive and only lasts for a few days (i.e., straight from the cow).  

[awkwardpenguin]

Organic milk is often ultrapasturized at high heat, which is why it lasts so much longer than conventional milk.

[rondonalddo]

RE: your second question, I'm pretty sure organic milk is often ultra-pasteurized, which gives it a longer drinkable range.

[rondonalddo]

Heh. Anyone have any, uh, pasteurization questions?

[Deleted]

Organic milk tastes different because of the diet. In certain areas of the country organic cows are fed a diet of pasture grass/organic dry hay. It gives the milk a different flavor than a cow fed a diet of corn silage, dry hay or wet hay combination. That's not always the case though. A lot of organic cows are fed the same diet as the non organic. It's region and farm specific.

It also tastes different because organic milk is pasteurized differently using a UHT method. Regular milk is pasteurized only at 161degreesF.  It gives the milk a richer caramel flavor to some. Just weird to others. This is also what allows to have a longer expiration date because organic milk is often shipped farther. 

And some of it is a SYA legal measure on the part of the processor. They don't want a lawsuit because some idiot drank month old milk expecting it to be ok. Like a lot of other food labels. 

Here's an article that explains organic pasteurization. 


www.scientificamerican.com/article/experts-organic-milk-lasts-longer/

[Deleted]

Jul 7, 2015 8:35:01 GMT -5 genet313 said:

It's not in your head, it's actually way better.  I agree- 2% organic is like a smoothie.   Even skim organic doesn't have that gross pale gray color, it's nice and richly white.  I tell myself it's b/c the cows are happier!

Usually organic milk is ultra-pasteurized so it lasts longer.  If you want organic milk that's not ultra-pasteurized you can usually find some at places like Whole Foods, but it's generally very expensive and only lasts for a few days (i.e., straight from the cow).  

It's illegal to buy milk straight from a cow. It's all pasteurized. It was just pasteurized using the regular method. 

I know that's not what you meant, but I wanted to clear that up. 

[auntie]

To your first question, I notice this even among conventional milk. The non-fat I get at the local dairy has a richer taste than the milks available at the local grocery store. Their herds are Holstein and something brown; I always wondered if this plays into it.

[spunkarella]

Jul 7, 2015 8:35:01 GMT -5 genet313 said:

It's not in your head, it's actually way better.  I agree- 2% organic is like a smoothie.   Even skim organic doesn't have that gross pale gray color, it's nice and richly white.  I tell myself it's b/c the cows are happier!

Usually organic milk is ultra-pasteurized so it lasts longer.  If you want organic milk that's not ultra-pasteurized you can usually find some at places like Whole Foods, but it's generally very expensive and only lasts for a few days (i.e., straight from the cow).  

Happy cows! I like this answer.

Why would I not want ultra-pasteurization? Just freshness or is there something else?

[Deleted]

Jul 7, 2015 8:42:16 GMT -5 auntie said:

To your first question, I notice this even among conventional milk. The non-fat I get at the local dairy has a richer taste than the milks available at the local grocery store. Their herds are Holstein and something brown; I always wondered if this plays into it.

Brown cows (Swiss, Jerseys, Guernseys) naturally have a higher butterfat component to their milk which makes their milk taste richer naturally. 

A lot of farms have brown cows in their mix with the holsteins or crossbreed holsteins/somebrowncowbreed for this very reason. 

Holsteins are known for making a lot of milk efficiently but the butterfat is naturally lower. 

The average Holstein cow can milk upwards of 70 pounds a day naturally, a brown cow breed is more like 50ish. Of course there's exceptions everywhere has farming practices and genetics improve. 

[auntie]

Jul 7, 2015 8:48:48 GMT -5 @justdairy said:

Jul 7, 2015 8:42:16 GMT -5 auntie said:

To your first question, I notice this even among conventional milk. The non-fat I get at the local dairy has a richer taste than the milks available at the local grocery store. Their herds are Holstein and something brown; I always wondered if this plays into it.

Brown cows (Swiss, Jerseys, Guernseys) naturally have a higher butterfat component to their milk which makes their milk taste richer naturally. 

A lot of farms have brown cows in their mix with the holsteins or crossbreed holsteins/somebrowncowbreed for this very reason. 

Holsteins are known for making a lot of milk efficiently but the butterfat is naturally lower. 

The average Holstein cow can milk upwards of 70 pounds a day naturally, a brown cow breed is more like 50ish. Of course there's exceptions everywhere has farming practices and genetics improve. 

They seem to keep the cows pastured separately. I have a friend who grew up on a farm that had a few cows (they grew spuds) who swears their fabulous chocolate milk, which is the consistency of melted ice cream, is the product of the smaller brown herd. I initially thought he was pulling my leg until he explained this.  Their amazing strawberry milk doesn't have the same mouthfeel but it does taste just like their strawberry ice cream.

[Deleted]

Jul 7, 2015 8:43:00 GMT -5 spunkarella said:

Jul 7, 2015 8:35:01 GMT -5 genet313 said:

It's not in your head, it's actually way better.  I agree- 2% organic is like a smoothie.   Even skim organic doesn't have that gross pale gray color, it's nice and richly white.  I tell myself it's b/c the cows are happier!

Usually organic milk is ultra-pasteurized so it lasts longer.  If you want organic milk that's not ultra-pasteurized you can usually find some at places like Whole Foods, but it's generally very expensive and only lasts for a few days (i.e., straight from the cow).  

Happy cows! I like this answer.

Why would I not want ultra-pasteurization? Just freshness or is there something else?

It doesn't matter honestly. Both are perfectly safe methods. 

And the gray color of the milk has to do with the plastic container it's in/exposure to light. It has nothing to do with the cows itself and how happy it is. A container that's opaque and doesn't allow sun light through is much better at keeping milk white. Which is why most containers are that "thick" white now.

[Deleted]

Jul 7, 2015 8:55:39 GMT -5 auntie said:

Jul 7, 2015 8:48:48 GMT -5 @justdairy said:

Brown cows (Swiss, Jerseys, Guernseys) naturally have a higher butterfat component to their milk which makes their milk taste richer naturally. 

A lot of farms have brown cows in their mix with the holsteins or crossbreed holsteins/somebrowncowbreed for this very reason. 

Holsteins are known for making a lot of milk efficiently but the butterfat is naturally lower. 

The average Holstein cow can milk upwards of 70 pounds a day naturally, a brown cow breed is more like 50ish. Of course there's exceptions everywhere has farming practices and genetics improve. 

They seem to keep the cows pastured separately. I have a friend who grew up on a farm that had a few cows (they grew spuds) who swears their fabulous chocolate milk, which is the consistency of melted ice cream, is the product of the smaller brown herd. I initially thought he was pulling my leg until he explained this.  Their amazing strawberry milk doesn't have the same mouthfeel but it does taste just like their strawberry ice cream.

Those cows were separated so their milk stayed separated for a special purpose. On your average farm it all ends up in the same tank because it's getting shipped it out. I want my brown swiss with my holsteins because it increases the butterfat percentage in my herd average. Higher butterfat is what I get paid great on from the creamery because it makes great cheese, yogurt and ice cream. 

[Deleted]

Jul 7, 2015 8:57:45 GMT -5 @mrsbecky said:

holy crap to 70 pounds of milk a day.


Our dairy tells us that milk tastes better in glass bottles because of how it reacts. Is that really true or are they just selling us a bill of goods? I'm buying it either way because I do like how it tastes more than milk from the store, but I was wondering.

It's true. Glass is best. Just not common because of the expense. Nobody wants to pay for that. Opaque plastic is the next best. Cardboard is the worst. It reacts with the cardboard and some people hate the taste. It also attributes to the gray-ish color I just explained.

[spunkarella]

I have learned so much today. Thank you!

[matildasun]

Jul 7, 2015 9:07:24 GMT -5 @mrsbecky said:

I also love that my milk man drives a van that looks like a strawberry cow lol.

Who do you get yours from?

[matildasun]

@mrsbecky, I get my milk from them at the market. I have not tried their other products.

[Deleted]

Jul 7, 2015 8:59:56 GMT -5 @justdairy said:

Jul 7, 2015 8:57:45 GMT -5 @mrsbecky said:

holy crap to 70 pounds of milk a day.


Our dairy tells us that milk tastes better in glass bottles because of how it reacts. Is that really true or are they just selling us a bill of goods? I'm buying it either way because I do like how it tastes more than milk from the store, but I was wondering.

It's true. Glass is best. Just not common because of the expense. Nobody wants to pay for that. Opaque plastic is the next best. Cardboard is the worst. It reacts with the cardboard and some people hate the taste. It also attributes to the gray-ish color I just explained.

What about plastic bags? (I'm looking at you, Canada.)

[matildasun]

@mrsbecky, my friend had stuff stolen out of her cooler on a game day, so I never pulled the trigger on signing up for delivery. I really should, but living where I live gives me pause.

[Deleted]

Jul 7, 2015 9:50:40 GMT -5 @republicrat said:

Jul 7, 2015 8:59:56 GMT -5 @justdairy said:

It's true. Glass is best. Just not common because of the expense. Nobody wants to pay for that. Opaque plastic is the next best. Cardboard is the worst. It reacts with the cardboard and some people hate the taste. It also attributes to the gray-ish color I just explained.

What about plastic bags? (I'm looking at you, Canada.)

hey have those here too. It's not the best. It's not the worst. 

A lot of milk taste is personally dependent. There is a science behind it but all the same at the end of the day it doesn't matter much.