I need some financial/life choice opinions

[Deleted]

This is a new acct, but I was house geek before, I just can't remember my sign in. Ive got some big decisions coming up, and I have no one unbiased to bounce it off of, and I thought of you guys. 
This is long, I appreciate any input you can give. 
So right now, we live on the east coast. We own/mortgage a 3 bed 2 bath home on an acre lot in a fabulous neighborhood. I stay at home with 3 kids, we are extremely rural (25 miles from most everything, food desert) and when we moved here 3 years ago, it was with the thought that our area would be getting developed with business and community, warehouses etc because land is so cheap. Anyway, that didn't and won't happen. My husband has a BA and has been looking for work weekly in our outside surrounding areas, which would be about an hour commute, but for one reason or another, he isn't getting any good hits. Currently he makes about 1800 a month. We borrow/ receive money heavily from his parents, and receive SNAP. Even anonymous I hate admitting that, so just multiply it by 100 the shame and guilt and stress I feel over it. It is a problem in our marriage that we both have just shoved in a closet and avoid, because there is no way to say "you are not supporting our family and its bullshit your parents have to pay our mortgage" and still expect a reasonable, not hot headed conversation.
A second job at minimum wage wouldn't make financial sense, between the time issue, the distance and gas prices, and lack of hiring jobs within 30+ miles, not to mention its just something he doesn't want to do, and I don't blame him. When we moved here initially, it was with his parents and his mom was supposed to get a part time job, and watch the kids the rest of the time so I could go to school/ possibly get a part time local gig at the grocery store or something. She is now working 60+ hour weeks an hour away, so despite them being less than a mile away, we see them maybe twice a month. My son is now old enough that I could probably leave him during the nights and get a night job somewhere 30 miles north, but I'm frankly not that appealing of a employee, being out of the workforce for 7 years, being only able to work limited hours, and I'm not sure when I would sleep, and again the minimum wage almost makes it a wash for part time work. And that kind of wasn't part of our "deal", I know how that sounds but it has always (and still is) our agreement that I stay at home. If I thought there was a job here that would make a serious financial difference I'd consider it.

Ok, TLDR, we don't make enough to meet basic needs and we are reliant on husbands parents.

Last year, I heard of a large number of openings in a government job in California (where I am from) that would start at 3000 for the initial schooling, and then after 3 months and passing school, bump to 3800 a month, plus overtime and bonuses. It is not a fun job. It is probably one of the worst jobs you can imagine, but it pays well and has amazing benefits. I would also be located in the same small city as my retired parents and friends. I didn't want to move away in the first place, but my husband convinced me he could make money in a north eastern state he is from and when we were there, it was the worst of California's unemployment issues. My husband was working 3 jobs and we were just making ends meet.
 Anyway, I applied, and am in the process, and should hear something within 6-8 weeks. 
I wanted my husband to apply with me, and initially he did, but he refused to fly out (my parents were going to pay for the flight) to do the physical, so thats that. 
I'm stressed. Its a big change, its a big move. We would finally be able to pay for our own bills, although it will be a tight few years. Its tight now though right, I mean we have like, 10k in credit debt. This is the right move, right? I want to go home, I'm worried this will split up our marriage. Even if he moves with me, I'm worried I will resent the hell out of him for making me go to work full time when he could've easily sucked it up and got the job. And Ca is having such serious water issues right now, I know this is dumb but my kids are going to miss playing in the sprinkler and the pool. And I'll miss my garden, and my house and my neighborhood. But I can't live off other people anymore, I am tired of being poor with no end in sight...

TLDR I can get a job that can possibly make ends meet but will be an extremely rough transition

I guess I'm looking for reassurance or something. For awhile at least, we'll still be a single income family, which is about 44k a year gross, which is not much for California for a family of 5. The room for promotion is really what I'm looking at, and it promotes regularly. Health insurance would be nice. 

[Deleted]

He works as a glorified secretary, his BA is in History. He originally wanted to teach, but right after he graduated they changed the teaching program and he couldn't teach while he was learning or something, so he just gave it up all together.

The job in CA is with their Corrections and Rehab department.

Where we would be moving, is not that much more expensive than where we are now. It is in gas and taxes, but rent/food costs etc would be comparable.

[drloretta]

So, you could both be making $3000-3800 a month but he wouldn't go? Why?

Where in CA? What are housing prices like for a 3br apt?

Is this a secure job?

Is he going to be a SAHP? Or are you giving up on the "deal"?

What do you plan to do with your current home?

[Deleted]

Because he doesn't want to work in corrections. Even though he could only have to do it for like, 2 years and then move within the department to a paper pusher, he wouldn't do it. Its stuffed in that closet I was talking about, it makes me angry....

Rent would be 900-1100 for a 3 bed 2 bath.

Very secure.

I'm pretty much giving up on the "deal" if this is what we decide to do, he'll be the SAHP until he can't stand it I guess, and then hopefully find a job that will get us through those first few tight years. My parents are available mostly to help with the kids too. They travel a little.

I want to keep the house for at least a few years, rent it out possibly. My Inlaws could manage the property easy enough.

[katieb4tom]

It sounds like maybe your husband doesn't mind getting assistance from his family and doesn't want to move. What has he said as you've told him your advancing through the interview process?

Also, I know you want relief from your current situation, but if this is such a horrible job, is life really going to be better once you move? I might want more than $3800/mo for a job that no one wants.

[itsme]

There are other positions within the corrections field that don't have contact with the inmates. There are a lot of options outside of being a correctional deputy/officer.  There are plenty of support roles that go into running a department so maybe that is an option for him. 

[gtkim]

Where did you live before you moved where you are now and what did your DH do for work then?  Can he not return to what he was doing before? Obviously things weren't always this tight if you were able to secure a mortgage.

If you are that rural is it even feasible to rent out your home and get what you need to cover expenses?

[drloretta]

Jul 7, 2015 11:57:09 GMT -5 katieb4tom said:

It sounds like maybe your husband doesn't mind getting assistance from his family and doesn't want to move. What has he said as you've told him your advancing through the interview process?.

This. What does HE want to do? He seems to want to just give up and float along, which sounds like a marriage issue the new job won't fix. What I he gets sick of being a SAHP but doesn't want to get a job?

[hamster]

I think before you move, you need to enter that closet. Sorry.

[Deleted]

He's not thrilled about it, at all. I agree he's complacent with our situation. He is looking for a new job, but its not like, a be all, end all situation that we are so dependent on his parents.

I think I can compartmentalize well enough that even though its a shitty job, its just a job. I was in the military for 4 years and took well to the attitude of "suck it up, do your job, and let it go". And frankly if it sucks that bad, there are a lot of positions within that I can apply for.

itsme, I know My dad worked and retired from the prison, we have both tried reasoning with him, and he refused. I'm hoping once I'm working there and once he lost this "battle" to go home to Ca that he'll apply and take it seriously. He'd do well in the support positions, or even as a counselor with limited inmate interaction.

We've lived in Ca where I want to move back, and NJ previously. DH has never had a single "career" job in the 7 years we've been together that supported our family fully. He's either needed multiple jobs, or I went to school and brought in income for our housing. He's never been a floater like this until we moved here, he's always at least tried. We are near 2 big vacation areas (1 hour-ish north or south) so property is premium, and finding a renter should be easy, despite being rural. There is also a lot of military turnaround, the naval base folks just deal with the 45 min commute and live here.

He's an amazing dad and outside this issue, a very good husband. I would say the underlying issue isn't the job he's against, but the move, he wants to stay near his parents, but dude, its been almost 3 years that we've been here. I do worry he'll go a little stir crazy being a SAHP, he'll either figure that out or maybe get a part time job where we are moving. Its feasible there, there are a lot of options and my parents would be able to help with the kids.

[Deleted]

Jul 7, 2015 12:14:56 GMT -5 hamster said:

I think before you move, you need to enter that closet. Sorry.

We have tried to, for what its worth. Its been discussed to death, both in anger and as reasonable as we can manage. I can't see his point of view, and he doesn't want to see mine. For the sake of our sanity and marriage it has been shelved for awhile, but I was just given the heads up that it should only be a few more weeks until I'm in the final stage of the process, so its real now. 

We do need to drag it out again, though. Its just exhausting. and I'm second guessing myself. 

[Deleted]

He's not really open to counseling. We did try it once, when I was pregnant with our second and he was working 3 jobs, we had a lot of issues (I was bitchy, and he was overworked). But it wasn't really productive. I'm not sure if he'd do it now, we don't have medical insurance, or a church, or any sort of support or way to pay for it out here, so...

Our communication is fairly good in general. He hasn't ever acted this stubborn about anything else we've gone through.

[Deleted]

Jul 7, 2015 11:59:39 GMT -5 gtkim said:

Where did you live before you moved where you are now and what did your DH do for work then?  Can he not return to what he was doing before? Obviously things weren't always this tight if you were able to secure a mortgage.

If you are that rural is it even feasible to rent out your home and get what you need to cover expenses?

His parents co-signed, thats the only reason we got the mortgage. Its only barely my house  

He can't go back to what he was doing, he used to do warehouse computer work, and his job was replaced by a computer/new programs. In NJ, despite his promises otherwise, the best work he could get was $12 an hour answering phones.  

[MNH2013]

I think counseling would help both of you as well. I know you said it's been discussed to death but having a third party helped us discuss similar issues. (Similar in that we couldn't see the other side)

ETA: Just saw your update. I would still suggest this to him.

[SJ]

Has he told you that he wants to be a SAHD in CA or are you just assuming that will happen by default?

[Deleted]

Jul 7, 2015 12:38:10 GMT -5 SJ said:

Has he told you that he wants to be a SAHD in CA or are you just assuming that will happen by default?

No, its been a bit one sided when I talk about CA. I'm still pretty irate that he wouldn't even apply, man a double income in that bracket would have just taken any doubt out of my mind. All that money that could be in our savings, it makes me  just to think about it.  
So now its just along the lines of "so when I'm working full time now, I guess you can stay at home with the kids, maybe go back to school if you can find grants, or get a part time or full time job". and I get a grunt or a glare or a "so whats for dinner" back. He's sticking his head in the sand. I don't know that he'd hate it, but he is work oriented, despite the inability to find a livable paying job. We went through a time of unemployment early in the relationship and it wasn't pretty. 

I thought the option of going back to school would be a carrot over his head, but nope. He's mad at me for applying in the first place, I'm mad at him for putting me in the position, its a lose lose. 

[Deleted]

Jul 7, 2015 12:42:56 GMT -5 @rennido said:

Do you think you're going to resent him for essentially forcing you to do this?

Yes. But I'm hoping I'll get over it. Being able to pay my bills, feed my family, go see a movie, heck even go on a date with my husband will help. I'm a big picture girl. And I might not hate it, you know?

[msmerymac]

So are you saying you're willing to move with or without him?

I can see his point that you chose this option, and only this option, which means moving the whole family across the country. There may also be an issue of emasculation in not being able to take care of his family. However, there are other options. He could have looked into a career in the oil fields, gone back for a teaching certificate, moved to a closer state where he was qualified to teach, or applied at private schools.

But it sounds like he did none of that, so you're getting desperate, and I can't blame you.

If you did have to sell your house now, would you make any money on it? Did his parents give you the down payment, and would you have to pay them back?

[kadams767]

Jul 7, 2015 12:52:08 GMT -5 @housegeek said:

Jul 7, 2015 12:42:56 GMT -5 @rennido said:

Do you think you're going to resent him for essentially forcing you to do this?

Yes. But I'm hoping I'll get over it. Being able to pay my bills, feed my family, go see a movie, heck even go on a date with my husband will help. I'm a big picture girl. And I might not hate it, you know?

I'm not trying to be snarky, but you already sound like you resent him.  I have to ask, what was going on in both of your heads when you made this "deal" that you would SAH?  It doesn't sound as though it was ever a good idea financially. 

[Deleted]

Jul 7, 2015 13:01:14 GMT -5 kadams767 said:

Jul 7, 2015 12:52:08 GMT -5 @housegeek said:

Yes. But I'm hoping I'll get over it. Being able to pay my bills, feed my family, go see a movie, heck even go on a date with my husband will help. I'm a big picture girl. And I might not hate it, you know?

I'm not trying to be snarky, but you already sound like you resent him.  I have to ask, what was going on in both of your heads when you made this "deal" that you would SAH?  It doesn't sound as though it was ever a good idea financially. 

We have our issues LOL. I never wanted to leave CA in the first place, and only did because the economy was tanked and he swore up and down he had connections in NJ, the place he grew up, and that he could get a career job there. We moved there, he didn't get one, I ended up going to school to pay the rent, and that worked out until we moved here. We are commuter close enough to an area that should have plenty of jobs that pay enough to pay our bills. Why he can't get one, I don't know. We've had people look at his resume, he has received good feedback from interviews, its just stopping there. As for our "deal", its something I've always wanted and he's always wanted, and I've never minded having to do without "all the things" as long as I could do it. But its never been this bad. I don't normally feel resentful, unless I have to sit down and think about it. But I'm good at compartmentalizing  

 

[Deleted]

Jul 7, 2015 13:00:32 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

So are you saying you're willing to move with or without him?

I can see his point that you chose this option, and only this option, which means moving the whole family across the country. There may also be an issue of emasculation in not being able to take care of his family. However, there are other options. He could have looked into a career in the oil fields, gone back for a teaching certificate, moved to a closer state where he was qualified to teach, or applied at private schools.

But it sounds like he did none of that, so you're getting desperate, and I can't blame you.

If you did have to sell your house now, would you make any money on it? Did his parents give you the down payment, and would you have to pay them back?

I don't know. Its something I've asked myself, and I don't know. He followed me once to CA, after we first met, and I'm hoping he'll follow me now, I guess. I can't see him staying here without me (us?) but I don't know.

We would make money back on it, fortunately. Not much, maybe 15-20k? They did pay the down, but we won't have to pay it back.

[itsme]

Is there a correctional facility near there you could work at? If so, is the pay decent? CA pays their public safety personnel pretty well compared to other states. As you move up in the ranks the pay is really good (as you know).

[Deleted]

Jul 7, 2015 13:18:27 GMT -5 itsme said:

Is there a correctional facility near there you could work at? If so, is the pay decent? CA pays their public safety personnel pretty well compared to other states. As you move up in the ranks the pay is really good (as you know).

There is one, but it doesn't pay nearly as well, and there is no guarantee I'd get the facility near me. I have a letter into the warden of the facility I want in CA, so its as guaranteed as it gets that I'd get assigned to the one near my family/hometown.

And frankly, if I'm going to do this, go back to work, I'm at least going to do it with the support of my parents. We'd have no-one to watch the kids if I go to work here, half my check would go to daycare.

[mrshandy]

It sounds like you guys are moving in different directions.

Your plugging along with a move to CA he deep down doesn't want to do.

I wouldn't force him to take a job like corrections that he doesn't want to do. That sounds terrible. Corrections isn't something you want to be forced into.

Does he want to be a SAHD? How old are your kids?

If he could have a different job would he want to move to CA? Is that even possible?

[Deleted]

Jul 7, 2015 13:22:34 GMT -5 @housegeek said:

Jul 7, 2015 13:18:27 GMT -5 itsme said:

Is there a correctional facility near there you could work at? If so, is the pay decent? CA pays their public safety personnel pretty well compared to other states. As you move up in the ranks the pay is really good (as you know).

There is one, but it doesn't pay nearly as well, and there is no guarantee I'd get the facility near me. I have a letter into the warden of the facility I want in CA, so its as guaranteed as it gets that I'd get assigned to the one near my family/hometown.

And frankly, if I'm going to do this, go back to work, I'm at least going to do it with the support of my parents. We'd have no-one to watch the kids if I go to work here, half my check would go to daycare.

But would half your check make a difference in your budget? How long until your kids are in school?

I don't hate your idea, but I think picking up and moving across the country is huge. It will cost money that it doesn't sound like you have. You say you can rent out your house, but what if something breaks and you need to fix it? What if your tenants don't pay the rent? What if something else happens and you can't afford it? I feel like your financial situation is too tight to be on the hook for both a mortgage AND rent.

It sounds to me like you and your H aren't on the same page about much of anything. Short of divorce, I don't see moving across the country and making a bit more money (if your H stays home and things in CA are a little more expensive) as a good long term solution either. That doesn't solve the problem of you working when you want to SAH, your H staying home when he doesn't want to, you and your H both potentially working horrible jobs you hate, etc. I 150% agree you need to make more money as a family, but if there are jobs nearby where you already live that would make it possible, I'd try to do those before moving across the country.

That said, I can understand wanting to be "home" and near your parents, especially if your H isn't being a great partner right now. Family support is huge.

[Deleted]

Jul 7, 2015 13:18:07 GMT -5 @rennido said:

I definitely see your side of things. And I think if I was in your situation, I would probably do the same thing. I think though...at least for me, this could be a step towards getting a divorce. You guys aren't on the same page financially...at all. That's scary.

I'm glad you're not be complacent about your situation, and that you are taking a stand...it needs to happen.

Thank you.
I don't want a divorce yet. I hope it doesn't lead to that. It is scary though. He's frugal, at least, he's not spending money we don't have unreasonably. Most of our credit debt is from paying bills and buying food, we don't eat out or go out ever, really. Our clothes have seen better days. I guess I'm hoping once we are financially stable on our own, he'll remember how nice that feels. 

I'm tired of life sucking, and I know I'm choosing a difficult way to fix it. I think in the big picture though, double pay overtime, bonuses, retirement and 401k and all those things we don't currently have, medical insurance, all wrapped up in one job that should be able to support my family, I don't understand why he can't look past the worst part and see the promise in it.  

[sfy]

Jul 7, 2015 12:42:56 GMT -5 @rennido said:

Do you think you're going to resent him for essentially forcing you to do this?

Is he, though?  I don't see it that way.  It doesn't seem like to me that either of them are doing the best they can in this situation.  They could continue to stay in the current location with things as they are, or she could get a job, or insist that he find another and/or better job.  I don't know, the main thing I do know is that this is not a financial issue.  It sounds as if she already has quite a bit of resentment and I'd be shocked if he didn't, also.  Quite frankly, I'd be wondering if my husband was drunk if we had 3 kids, needed assistance from multiple sources and he was talking to me about some "deal" instead of getting a job.

@housegeek, is it too late for your husband to get the job you plan to get?  I think it's time for a serious conversation.  If I were you, I would sell your house.  First of all, you need the money.  You can pay off your debt and have some money to help get you settled into the new life and/or for an emergency fund.  Second, I get that his parents are a huge help, but it sounds like they're the write the check variety and not the put in time variety (which is their absolute right, no judgment here).  After they stiffed you guys on child care, I wouldn't be so excited to trust them to manage your property.  Besides that, owning property in another place can be a huge headache and the last thing you two need is another headache.  Part two of the conversation is that he needs to go after the job you are getting.  It doesn't have to be permanent, but because he can apparently secure it from a distance and the salary is fixed, he needs to do it.  Commit to it for a year.  He can begin job hunting after 6 months and hopefully, by the time he reaches the one year mark, he will already have secured a new role.  If not, he stays until he can find a comparable salary.  Likewise, I think you should make a plan to commit for two years.  After that point, you can reevaluate and decide whether it makes sense to return to the deal.  But at least by then, you should have a solid emergency fund and obviously, no debt.  You both can make the decision with from a place that isn't filled with stress and angst.  Right now, I think it's crazy to be in the situation that you two are in talking about what jobs you don't want to work and where you don't want to live--you guys have way too many kids for that.  You live where you must and you work where you must.

[Deleted]

Jul 7, 2015 13:29:00 GMT -5 @foodielicious said:

Perhaps it's more that it's "your family" or "his family" choice that he resents. What if you went to an area that was near neither of your families but was going through a boom and was more LCOL. NJ property taxes are pretty high.

I think you are looking at absolute dollars and not actual cost of living when you're thinking about CA. How far will 3800 get you there, vs. where you are now, or vs. another area altogether?

I've tried that too, back when we had a (albeit small) cushion, with a job going nowhere and my school coming to an end, I wanted to move to kansas or something, where land is cheap and we have some decent connections to get a job there (my sister and brother in law work there). That was more NO than CA has been. 

3800 will pay the bills, for sure. There is also a 5% raise every 6 months. It might be tight and we can't eat out or anything, basically live like we are now for a couple more years, but 18-24 months after you start there, you get a performance eval and if you pass, your pay raises to 5055 a month. That for sure is doable. 

[gt7301b]

I'll admit I'm a little confused by this whole situation, but I wouldn't want to get a job with the corrections department either. It sounds like you've drawn the line in the sand and these are the only two options, but is there some other compromise that would make both of you happier? 

[kadams767]

Jul 7, 2015 13:11:37 GMT -5 @housegeek said:

Jul 7, 2015 13:01:14 GMT -5 kadams767 said:

I'm not trying to be snarky, but you already sound like you resent him.  I have to ask, what was going on in both of your heads when you made this "deal" that you would SAH?  It doesn't sound as though it was ever a good idea financially. 

We have our issues LOL. I never wanted to leave CA in the first place, and only did because the economy was tanked and he swore up and down he had connections in NJ, the place he grew up, and that he could get a career job there. We moved there, he didn't get one, I ended up going to school to pay the rent, and that worked out until we moved here. We are commuter close enough to an area that should have plenty of jobs that pay enough to pay our bills. Why he can't get one, I don't know. We've had people look at his resume, he has received good feedback from interviews, its just stopping there. As for our "deal", its something I've always wanted and he's always wanted, and I've never minded having to do without "all the things" as long as I could do it. But its never been this bad. I don't normally feel resentful, unless I have to sit down and think about it. But I'm good at compartmentalizing  

 

Look, I am going to be harsh.  The "deal" is over.  You are both adults.  If, for whatever reason, your husband cannot find a better job, you need to find one.  If you are of the opinion that your husband should be able to find a job near your area that pays the bills, why can't you do the same?  Honestly, I don't know if I just cannot see things straight in this thread because of all of the "support his family" stereotypical male BS you are saying or what, but you both made these decisions.  For better or worse, you need to do something to help fix them.  I have to say, I'd be kind of irritated if my spouse wasn't working, but was telling me that I have to make more money to support the family and then basically saying the only way he'd work is to move to a new state.