Childcare has been covered. Whether it's worth it depends among other things on what that 12k/year goes to pay for. If they need the money to meet basic needs like put food on the table then yes obviously it is worth it because it's 12k that they need that they didn't have before. If it's the difference between adequately funding retirement and being extra proactive about retirement, probably not. For all the scenarios in the middle it depends on their values and interests. Does she enjoy SAHing at home, value building a career that she may have for decades, or value the things that the extra money can buy for them.
OMG, no effing way I could work from home with my 2 year old there. Maaaaybe for 2 or 3 hours a day, while he naps. But, no otherwise.
Now, my 6 year old is a different story. She can entertain herself for hours - reading, doing art projects, watching TV, etc. I could WFH with her there. In fact, I will do it for a few hours tomorrow afternoon.
Working from home with a kid is my worst nightmare. You suck at both being a mom and being an employee and you get 0 downtime from the time you wake up until the kid goes to bed. If the kid is napping, you are desperately trying to get 8 hours worth of work crammed into 1-2 hours. If the kid is awake you are trying to keep him from killing himself while hoovering around your computer trying to answer emails and IMs fast enough that people think you're doing your job. The worst days of the year are when my kid is sick and I'm stuck home with him on a work day with little to no PTO remaining.
Post by marshamarsha on Jul 7, 2015 23:19:38 GMT -5
I don't think that this is unjustified at all. You can't bring your kid to work with you. Working from home requires the same concentration and so the kid should be in daycare.
Even with my first kid about to start K, I still don't think I'm going to clear $1000 a month after childcare expenses..... but I'm basically working for health insurance. Well, and because I love my job.
When both were in daycare, I am not sure that I was clearing anything extra. But as someone mentioned above, childcare shouldn't be looked at as one person's expense, especially if both providers want to work.
I know everyone is piling on, so I just want to say that my boss was surprised when I hired a nanny when I started WAH. He doesn't have kids and just assumed I wouldn't. I think a lot of people don't realize that WAH is just like working in an office, and you wouldn't bring your kids to an office.
Yeah, some people are really naive about it or don't understand how much attention kids need. When I tell my kidless friends/acquaintances that I telework a few days a week, they sometimes assumes it means I would work from home with my kids there. I'm like "Hell no".
Hell people assume all the time that I can pick up and run errands for them or deal with the cable guy or whatever. Working from home is WORKING from home. Sometimes I can fold a load of laundry on a conference call or something, but it substantially looks like people's day in the office, just with more yoga pants.
Post by oscarnerdjulief on Jul 9, 2015 10:32:57 GMT -5
Hi again. I was out of town yesterday but wanted to come back on today to tell you how this was resolved. My friend discussed childcare with the company, and basically they negotiated that she would not have to get childcare, but if after a certain time on the job they feel that it affects her productivity, they will reopen discussions on this issue.
Hi again. I was out of town yesterday but wanted to come back on today to tell you how this was resolved. My friend discussed childcare with the company, and basically they negotiated that she would not have to get childcare, but if after a certain time on the job they feel that it affects her productivity, they will reopen discussions on this issue.
Thanks for your insight.
Honestly, this seems like a recipe for disaster. I don't know what kind of job you can do where you can be a good employee and a good mom at the same time.
I would recommend you tell your friend that she get some kind of part time child care at least so she doesn't lose this job.
Interesting that they were willing no to negotiate this, especially with such a young child. I knew someone who tried to watch their one-year old on the 1-2 days per week he worked from home... he ended up being terribly unproductive and eventually lost his job. I can't imagine doing that full time. Perhaps the job allows her to get caught up on evenings and weekends if it is salaried, but then she'll be working essentially 2 full time jobs (child care and this job). I'd be ripping my hair out and so stressed out. My H works from home and we would never consider him being daycare (granted we don't have kids yet).
As Mushe pointed out, there is more than just the take home pay that is lost when someone stays home. There may be other options for employment on evenings or weekends as well if they do not want to pay for daycare.
This is obviously your friend's decision on how she wants to raise her child and what she wants out of her career.
Post by oscarnerdjulief on Jul 9, 2015 12:31:34 GMT -5
I didn't end up giving advice either way to my friend because I am not privy to the details of their finances and don't really know the nature of the job (what specifically she will be doing).
She starts work pretty soon, and there will probably be a month where her husband will be home before he starts a new job. I bet that first month will let her 'get her feet wet' and see how it goes. She'll know by the time her husband goes back to work whether or not she can handle it, I bet.
Hi again. I was out of town yesterday but wanted to come back on today to tell you how this was resolved. My friend discussed childcare with the company, and basically they negotiated that she would not have to get childcare, but if after a certain time on the job they feel that it affects her productivity, they will reopen discussions on this issue.
Thanks for your insight.
Hm. Honestly, I would not be surprised if the company already sees her as a big red flag. I think she'll have to work extra hard to prove herself now, unfortunately. I've seen how hard it is to break back into the workforce and hope your friend didn't set herself up to fail, you know? If I was going to give her advice (as a manager) I would suggest she let them know that she realizes the importance of focusing in the job, and she's arranged for in-home care as a short-term measure and that she is investigating long term options.
I also agree with the posters that discussed how a job isn't just about the money you make net of daycare, there's a lot more positives to it. I hope she considers that.
ETA: I'm saying all this rhetorically, I know you're not really involved. Just talking to talk, really!
I work from home all summer and about 50% the rest of the year. I could never work without childcare. In the summer I have a babysitter taking the girls to the pool/activities/etc and the baby is in daycare full time. The rest of the year, same deal: school/afterschool care and daycare.
It doesn't imo negate the benefits of WAH. I can still start a load of laundry, go for a run, work in my Pjs. And I save an hour of commute each way.
I don't understand why anyone would want to work with a kid there.
Post by oscarnerdjulief on Jul 9, 2015 14:23:25 GMT -5
Onomatopoeia,
I agree with you that it's important that she break back into the workforce. I wondered if it was going to get harder with time for her to get a job considering that she has not been working full-time for a prolonged period. I know that she had been doing various sidejobs like editing, grading the state tests, etc. as well as looking for full-time employment in various fields.
One thing I feel bad about in this conversation is that I may have inadvertently by my question alone painted her as someone who wants to work half-heartedly at the job while watching her kid. She never indicated that.
As to the "red flag," businesses aren't philanthropies. They must have decided that her skill set outweighs the potential downside to hiring her. I have no way of knowing whether people who are applying for her job can negotiate on key issues. It seems like they'd be able to. It's not like teaching where the negotiation is done by teams every few yrs, and the terms are set.
Post by oscarnerdjulief on Jul 9, 2015 14:24:54 GMT -5
Papie,
Commuting was horrible for my friend in her previous employment. She would call me while she was driving, and at times due to horrendous traffic it was 2 hours. That's definitely a benefit to working from home.
I agree with you that it's important that she break back into the workforce. I wondered if it was going to get harder with time for her to get a job considering that she has not been working full-time for a prolonged period. I know that she had been doing various sidejobs like editing, grading the state tests, etc. as well as looking for full-time employment in various fields.
One thing I feel bad about in this conversation is that I may have inadvertently by my question alone painted her as someone who wants to work half-heartedly at the job while watching her kid. She never indicated that.
As to the "red flag," businesses aren't philanthropies. They must have decided that her skill set outweighs the potential downside to hiring her. I have no way of knowing whether people who are applying for her job can negotiate on key issues. It seems like they'd be able to. It's not like teaching where the negotiation is done by teams every few yrs, and the terms are set.
IDK, how do you work whole-heartedly at a job when you're watching your kid? Maybe you could do it once or twice when necessary. But every day, hell to the no.
This whole thing is very confusing to me and I'm curious what kind of job this is.
I work at home and would be entirely unable to concentrate on my work if I was also responsible for childcare (and concentration is extremely important in my profession). It's really common for companies to insist on childcare. Some jobs you could probably get by with older more independent children home, but not babies or toddlers.
I worked from home for 3 years with my DD there along with me. It was understood that she was there and that as soon as she became a distraction, I was putting her in daycare. However, my job was also flexible enough that I could work around her nap times. I was also lucky that she was a VERY chill baby and a great sleeper from day one.
If I still had that job there's NO WAY I could keep both kids at home. DD1 needs more entertainment now and DD2 is seriously time consuming.
The main benefit of working from home if you need child care is that you don't have to get up and go into an office, there's no dress code, you can get other small tasks done during the time you'd normally be messing around on the net or talking to co workers. On the other hand it's extremely isolating - I struggled because I didn't have a lot of adult conversations.
FOR ME, 1k a month wouldn't be worth while to put my kid in daycare (even though she'd love it).
How did you wah with a kid? I mean newborns sleep a lot but 2-3 year old don't. Mine always wants to play or talk to me lol.
I worked from home for 3 years with my DD there along with me. It was understood that she was there and that as soon as she became a distraction, I was putting her in daycare. However, my job was also flexible enough that I could work around her nap times. I was also lucky that she was a VERY chill baby and a great sleeper from day one.
If I still had that job there's NO WAY I could keep both kids at home. DD1 needs more entertainment now and DD2 is seriously time consuming.
The main benefit of working from home if you need child care is that you don't have to get up and go into an office, there's no dress code, you can get other small tasks done during the time you'd normally be messing around on the net or talking to co workers. On the other hand it's extremely isolating - I struggled because I didn't have a lot of adult conversations.
FOR ME, 1k a month wouldn't be worth while to put my kid in daycare (even though she'd love it).
How did you wah with a kid? I mean newborns sleep a lot but 2-3 year old don't. Mine always wants to play or talk to me lol.
DD1 didn't need a lot of interaction. I could give her books, crayons etc and she'd be happy for hours. That said, my job was made up of about 20% WORK and 80% sit around and wait for work. It was that way even when I was in the office.
Thanks for your input. I was unfamiliar with working from home and common practices. Sorry if it seemed to be a stupid question.
There is zero way I could work from home with a 2 year old - mine would need me the moment I picked up a phone and I'd be too worried about what she's destroying to actually concentrate. I was picturing a 5 year old who can at least be reasonable for her to even wonder why they require this.
As for the requirement the child not be home, a coworker had a nanny and she said when her kids were young it sucked working from home for even a few hours. Even with the nanny they'd be on the other side of the door knocking, crying for mommy, yelling - they knew she was there and they wanted to see her. She did everything she could to NOT work from home until they were about kindergarten age.
Thanks for your input. I was unfamiliar with working from home and common practices. Sorry if it seemed to be a stupid question.
There is zero way I could work from home with a 2 year old - mine would need me the moment I picked up a phone and I'd be too worried about what she's destroying to actually concentrate. I was picturing a 5 year old who can at least be reasonable for her to even wonder why they require this.
As for the requirement the child not be home, a coworker had a nanny and she said when her kids were young it sucked working from home for even a few hours. Even with the nanny they'd be on the other side of the door knocking, crying for mommy, yelling - they knew she was there and they wanted to see her. She did everything she could to NOT work from home until they were about kindergarten age.
Yup. I just started working from home on Monday. DH is home for the summer (teacher) and has DS with him 5 days a week right now. DS is 2.75 and only barely understands that he can't bother me when I'm in my office.
Plus I can hear everything when they are on the main floor. It's hard to keep my focus and I'm super paranoid when on conference calls. He will be going back to daycare in late August because I can NOT have him home with a nanny every day.
H and I own our own business and we still send our LO to childcare. It would be a nightmare if he was here all day. He normally spends about 30 minutes here in the morning and I am ready to say goodbye after he has destroyed everything.
Post by oscarnerdjulief on Jul 10, 2015 15:40:55 GMT -5
I actually find the comments interesting because I am not invested either way. I do not know the specifics of what my friend is doing, only that it is "a non-profit that's affiliated with a media company." (again, exact wording from her)
I don't think that I would be able to work from home with a young child because I'd be too distracted, and I like having a physical separation between the work day and home time even though of course there's a lot of overlapping since I grade and plan.
I bet she will be happier with a full-time job. Even if she does end up having to utilize a childcare provider, the money she makes can definitely contribute to expenses like her mortgage, and she avoids that awful commute.
Of course the company wants to make sure she is, you know, working during work and not collecting a paycheck while she watches her kid.
Honestly, its hard to productively work from him with the DOG. A child would be impossible.
All of this.
I work from home, and have for a lot of the last 15 years, and I can barely deal with the dog some days, let alone my baby. I have childcare - either DH, my mom or my SIL. Sometimes, DS is cared for at my house during the day and I need to lock myself in the office and, if I'm facilitating a big call with a lot of people, I even make sure that he stays out of the hallway outside my office so there's no chance at that kind of disruption.
Occasionally, we have an hour or two care gap, and I do juggle both. However, I've earned the right to do that with reputation, etc., and I get my job done. Plus, my manager doesn't care.
It's your friend that's being ridiculous, not the boss, FYI. She SHOULD have childcare, and if she can't have a separate area where she's not distracted, the child should be cared for outside the home. If she's contacting clients, and the child can be heard -- at all, however distantly -- the child should be cared for outside the home.
I WFH about half the time, and if I end up at home with a sick kid or because daycare is closed I can really only work during naps and monitor emails for urgent things. When they're sick they're all snuggle and working with a kid cuddled into you isn't easy, and when they're healthy they have a ton of energy and want to be entertained. However, I'm fortunate and I have plenty of work that can get done after hours. It's really frustrating when they're in my care during working hours because I feel like I'm not being a good parent or a good employee.
If I were your friend, I would look into alternative options. Is there an in-home daycare that's cheaper? Can she hire someone to just come for the mornings, and leave when her kid goes to sleep? Do daycare a few days a week? Especially if her company is being flexible, I think it would look really good for her to be proactive and try to figure out something more practical, but also more cost effective.