Post by hillarywhitney on Jul 8, 2015 0:21:56 GMT -5
I've attended about half a dozen play dates with a group of moms. I recently found out that the leader and at least one other mom, do not fully vaccinate their children. I have no idea which vaccines their children have/have not received. I'm not looking to start a vaccine debate. But, what would you do? Would you stop going all together? I'm thinking I need to stop going.
Is it ok for my son to be around other babies close in his age if they aren't vaccinated, since my son is vaccinated?
I've attended about half a dozen play dates with a group of moms. I recently found out that the leader and at least one other mom, do not fully vaccinate their children. I have no idea which vaccines their children have/have not received. I'm not looking to start a vaccine debate. But, what would you do? Would you stop going all together? I'm thinking I need to stop going.
Is it ok for my son to be around other babies close in his age if they aren't vaccinated, since my son is vaccinated?
If the leader is non-vaccinating, I would assume that group is predominantly antivax (they tend to find each other!) and would leave. I can't stand antivaxxers and honestly can never see myself becoming friends with a mom from that group.
For the last part, this isn't your problem. I've heard some anti-vaxxers prefer you not let your recently vaccinated kid near their kid because of "vaccine shedding".
This is one of my only "hill to die on" type things. I would stop having play dates and I would be very clear why. I know how hard it can be to make new mom friends and that what I'm saying may sound harsh, but unvaxxed kids are no joke.
At 11 months it wouldn't bother me that much, but I'm probably in the minority. If my child were younger or immunosuppressed or even if i had a younger baby at home, I would leave without hesitation.
I would leave. This is my hill to die on. Not all vaccines are 100% effective, I think whopping cough is 70% or something like that. So even if my child IS vaccinated, I would still be KNOWINGLY putting him at risk by hanging out with unvaccinated children. If DS or DD caught some terrible disease from these nut jobs, I would never forgive myself. I would leave the group, and tell them why. There are plenty of other sane mom out there.
FWIW I "broke up with" a good friend once I found out she didn't vaccinate her son. I antagonized over that decision, since we live in a small town and I hadn't made very many friends. She was a lot of fun, we had a lot in common, her son was the same age as DS and they got along famously. But her AND her son were completely unvaccinated. I decided that it wasn't worth the risk to DS to KNOWINGLY expose him to disease. And I told her we couldn't be friends. I'm glad I stood up for my principles. And you know what? I found several other sane moms, and have several friends now.
How did you find out this information? I would want more info on which vaccines.
For my now not-friend, we were chatting and I mentioned how DS was cranky from his vaccines the day before. She replied that she never had to deal with that. I clarified with her that that meant her son wasn't vaccinated. She said yes, that her AND her son were completely unvaccinated.
@hilarywhitney, I would not bother asking which vaccines they've skipped. It doesn't matter IMHO, not vaccinating shows a lapse in judgement, and that's just not the type of person I would want to be friends with. Who knows what other crazy parenting decisions they're making KWIM?
I would stop attending - not because I think my older, vaccinated child will catch something. More because this is the one decision a parent can make that makes me automatically judge them as stupid. Not misguided, not uninformed, not mistaken. Stupid. I think antivaxxers are just stupid and I would never be able to bite my tongue on that opinion.
Post by timorousbeastie on Jul 8, 2015 6:53:40 GMT -5
Exactly what hermione said. And I would tell them exactly why I was leaving the group (ok, maybe I'd put it more diplomatically than outright saying to them that I don't want to hang out with idiots, but I'd be thinking it and I would say I don't want my child around others who are not vaxed for non-valid reasons)
Post by barefootcontessa on Jul 8, 2015 7:08:40 GMT -5
We had a family in our very small preschool who did not vaccinate. I did not worry about my kids because they were fully vaccinated. As my doctor explained it to me, even though the dtap is not 100 percent effective, if my child contracted pertussis it would be much more mild and more like a common cold cough. But I worried a lot of my infant somehow being exposed. I looked other preschools but learned that those geared towards SAH parents did not require vaccines for entry so I figured I had less risk with just one non-vaccinating family than I would in a larger place with more than one non-vaccinating families (admittedly an assumption but not unfounded given this area). If I were you I would try to find out more information. Are they delaying the HepB or dtap or MMR. That would make a difference to me.
I still have that one anti-vaxx friend floating around. It makes me nervous every time. I am unable to relax and enjoy myself. For now I am limiting exposure to them (FWIW, she doesn't allow her son to hold/touch P).
I would leave for the reasons stated above - I would be silently judging the non-vaxxers the whole time and that's not a mood I want to be in regularly.
I was recently invited to a bible study and one of the members is an anti-vaxxer. I've engaged in debate with her on a mutual friend's FB and I know for sure she doesn't get or give her kid any vaccines. The next meeting of the group is at her house, which I definitely will not attend but I'm debating if I should go after that when its held at the home of a more reasonable person, though she will still be there. I mean, in reality most adults are probably not current on all their boosters so singling her out because she might get me sick seems silly, especially since there are no kids at these events. On the other hand, there's a principle at play here.
Post by runblondie26 on Jul 8, 2015 7:45:31 GMT -5
My kids are fully vaccinated, so I wouldn't care. Their kid, their decisions. I'd only care if my child had a health problem and could potentially get sick.
I keep also thinking I would leave just on the idea that I feel like we should kind of shun the people who make these decisions. But then I feel bad for the kids. Or I think that further pushing these people on the outskirts might make them dig in their heels more. I dunno though. I still kind of lean toward shunning. Is that horrible?
As evidenced by my previous post, I certainly decided to shun. I have to place my children's health ahead of some idiot's feelings. It's their stupid decision not to vaccinate. It's my wise decision not to associate with them. It does suck for their kids, but like thecatinthehat said, these people seem to find each other. She'll find other nonvaxxers to make play dates with.
My kids are older so I wouldn't worry about the health aspect. I assume there is a kid or two in their ES that isn't vaccinated. But, I would write off the parents as not my kind of people (obviously exceptions for kids who can't get vaccinated). I'd find a new play group.
Unfortunately, non-vax can be hard to avoid here. We had one kid in DD's playgroup who could not be vaccinated and my nephew could not be vaccinated for the most part, until he was much older for real medical reasons. I dislike non-vax for no good reason people too much to seek them out. My DD's kinder teacher told me that 25% of the kids in her kinder class were not vaccinated. Only one was for medical reasons. She goes to a different school now, where the vax rate is much, much higher.
We had a CDC vaccine researcher, a doctor, in our playgroup for a while. I thought she was going to eat the young of one woman who said she didn't vaccinate because, you know, the scary. I loved her.
I wouldn't go anymore both because I don't want to hang out with anti vaxers and because of the risks to my kids even though they are fully vaccinated.
I recently moved to a new area and met another mom at church. I really liked her and thought we could end up being good friends. Then I found out she doesn't vaccinate. It has tainted my entire view of her. The non vax thing hangs over all of our interactions, so I think it would be hard to enjoy her company now.
I don't want my kids to play with hers. I briefly reconsidered because my daughter really likes hers. However, recently a visiting relative gave her kids pertussis. Another mom at our church whose kids had played with the unvaxed ones recently received a text letting her know the kids had pertussis and she should watch her children for symptoms even though they are fully vaxed. I'm glad our kids have never had a playdate, and I don't want to every receive a text like that. I'll find other kids for my kids to play with.
For the folks saying they don't worry about older kids. I had mumps at 8, measles at 10 and mumps again at 12.
I was fully vaxxed so the incidences weren't life threatening but I was pretty uncomfortable for a couple of weeks and I couldn't go to school. Mild cases can also be uncomfortable and inconvenient so I would avoid no matter how old the children are.
You are absolutely right. I feel like I have less control over who they hang out with and I don't know the vaccination status of their friends in ES/sports/etc. It isn't something I worry about b/c I can't really control it. Of course, I don't want them to get sick.
Medical risk aside, I'd dump her for obviously having questionable (at best) judgement skills.
Bye, Felicia!
Succinctly, this.
I mean, it would probably be more reasonable to try to talk to her privately, to find out how unvaxxed they are and/or why, but I doubt that I'd do that.
My local baby-wearing group is chock full of anti-vaxxers, and I don't go to any meet-ups for exactly this reason. It's disappointing, because I really want to go. I'd love to start a subgroup meet-up of only properly vaccinated individuals, but I can imagine that this would go over like a lead balloon.
I would stop attending - not because I think my older, vaccinated child will catch something. More because this is the one decision a parent can make that makes me automatically judge them as stupid. Not misguided, not uninformed, not mistaken. Stupid. I think antivaxxers are just stupid and I would never be able to bite my tongue on that opinion.
***standard medical reason caveat, of course.
Pretty much this.
I wouldn't be able to continue going because I would be judging them very harshly for their dumb decisions and I wouldn't be able to stop from saying stuff about it. I would realize that we likely had nothing in common.
But I wouldn't really be all that concerned about actually catching the diseases that they didn't vaccinate for. If that's your only concern then I think the chances are still pretty minuscule.
Post by hillarywhitney on Jul 8, 2015 10:46:23 GMT -5
Thanks everyone. I appreciate the feedback. You all confirmed how I was feeling about the situation.
I doubt I will be missed much from the big group (I'm pretty new). But, I have been having play dates with two of the other moms who have babies close in age to mine. One of them doesn't fully vaccinate. So, I will have to let her know.
Someone asked how the topic came up. They were talking about school and the CA vaccine bill.
I would stop attending and politely tell her why. There is likely very little danger to your kids. My objection is on the principal of the issue. I think people IRL need to make a stand for herd immunity. The problem with the silent majority is that it stays silent.
Anyone who is anti-science and does their own "research" on the internet is not my people. I am not that desperate for mom friends that I would bite my tongue and pretend that everything is cool.
As for "how unvaccinated are they" - people who cherrypick vaccines in the first year with no scientific basis fall into the same category described above.
I'm not sure if you are implying I'm desperate for mom friends. But, I'm not. I was honestly surprised to learn they don't fully vaccinate their children.