How legitimate is this lawsuit?

[pedanticwench]

espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/8276263/dallas-cowboys-hot-water-burned-fan-files-lawsuit-team

A Dallas Cowboys fan is burning mad at her team.

Jennelle Carrillo, of Cleburne, Texas, has sued the Cowboys and owner/general manager Jerry Jones after she suffered severe burns to her backside while allegedly sitting on a bench outside Cowboys Stadium before a team scrimmage in August 2010.

Temperatures on the day of the annual Blue & Silver scrimmage were more than 100 degrees, and the bench that Carrillo sat on was black.

"The bench was uncovered and openly exposed to the extremely hot August sun," the suit, which was filed in Tarrant County civil court, states. "The combination of the nature of the black, marble bench and hot sunlight caused the bench to become extremely hot and unreasonably dangerous."

Carrillo's lawyer, Michael Wash, told KDFW-TV that his client initially knew she had been burned but didn't realize the extent of the injuries until receiving medical attention. She did not stay for the game, according to Wash.

"She sat down on this black bench, outside an entrance and unfortunately she suffered third-degree burns as a result of it and had subsequent skin grafts," he told KDFW.

The suit alleges that Cowboys Stadium posted no warning signs alerting fans that the benches could be hot.

Wash told KDFW that Carrillo has suffered "mental anguish, physical pain and disfigurement as a result of her wounds."

According to the TV station, Carrillo is suing to get a jury trial and payment of court fees, interest and a damage amount determined by the jury.

The Cowboys declined comment to KDFW due to the ongoing litigation, per team policy.

[marynjoe]

Hmmm..... One one hand, we should watch where we sit. On the other hand, why would they have a bench that is made for sitting, built out of material that will heat up to an unsafe temperature, in Dallas, in the sun? I hate frivilous lawsuits, but a bench says "sit here", so it's not like she did anything idiotic. They need to replace those benches ASAP, or shade them, or something.

[rosiedozie]

A bench getting hot enough to make you go "ouch" is one thing. A bench getting hot enough to give her 3rd degree burns is another.

It's Texas - your builder/designer/whatever needs to take the sun and heat into consideration when designing a sitting area.

I vote not frivolous.

[overture]

She sat down, was burned, got up, left, and sought medical attention? Not frivolous.

It's reasonable to expect to be able to sit down on something intended for sitting without needing skin grafts.

[overture]

Aug 17, 2012 11:34:52 GMT -5 rosiedozie said:

It's Texas - your builder/designer/whatever needs to take the sun and heat into consideration when designing a sitting area.

This is what really pisses me off here. How did someone okay this?

[pedanticwench]

I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't crazy. I have people on FB calling this woman a moron. And I'm thinking, huh?

[ttt]

I don't know. I tend to think that if you live in Texas, you should know that it gets really, really hot. And maybe before you sit down on something, you should touch it with your hand to see if it's really, really hot. And if it is, maybe you shouldn't sit on it or you should put something down first to protect you.

We really need warning signs telling people that black benches in the Texas summer sun might be hot? This is a matter for our judicial system?

[msmerymac]

Aug 17, 2012 12:06:55 GMT -5 ttt said:

I don't know. I tend to think that if you live in Texas, you should know that it gets really, really hot. And maybe before you sit down on something, you should touch it with your hand to see if it's really, really hot. And if it is, maybe you shouldn't sit on it or you should put something down first to protect you.

We really need warning signs telling people that black benches in the Texas summer sun might be hot? This is a matter for our judicial system?

And then she would have just had 3rd degree burns on her hand instead of her ass.

I can't even imagine getting 3rd degree burns through clothing. Perhaps the clothing actually made it worse (either burning into her skin, or preventing her from realizing the temperature of the bench at first).

[overture]

ttt, to me this is about the stadium not being designed safely, which needs to carry consequences for the organization so that they are compelled to fix it. Are we sure there are no building codes being violated here?

[hawkeye]

Aug 17, 2012 12:09:33 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

Aug 17, 2012 12:06:55 GMT -5 ttt said:

I don't know. I tend to think that if you live in Texas, you should know that it gets really, really hot. And maybe before you sit down on something, you should touch it with your hand to see if it's really, really hot. And if it is, maybe you shouldn't sit on it or you should put something down first to protect you.

We really need warning signs telling people that black benches in the Texas summer sun might be hot? This is a matter for our judicial system?

And then she would have just had 3rd degree burns on her hand instead of her ass.

I can't even imagine getting 3rd degree burns through clothing. Perhaps the clothing actually made it worse (either burning into her skin, or preventing her from realizing the temperature of the bench at first).

I'm guessing she had shorts on though.

3rd degree burns are pretty damn serious.

[rosiedozie]

Aug 17, 2012 12:09:33 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

Aug 17, 2012 12:06:55 GMT -5 ttt said:

I don't know. I tend to think that if you live in Texas, you should know that it gets really, really hot. And maybe before you sit down on something, you should touch it with your hand to see if it's really, really hot. And if it is, maybe you shouldn't sit on it or you should put something down first to protect you.

We really need warning signs telling people that black benches in the Texas summer sun might be hot? This is a matter for our judicial system?

And then she would have just had 3rd degree burns on her hand instead of her ass.

Exactly. I don't see how she could have safely tested the temperature of the bench before sitting down.

[ttt]

Aug 17, 2012 12:09:33 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

Aug 17, 2012 12:06:55 GMT -5 ttt said:

I don't know. I tend to think that if you live in Texas, you should know that it gets really, really hot. And maybe before you sit down on something, you should touch it with your hand to see if it's really, really hot. And if it is, maybe you shouldn't sit on it or you should put something down first to protect you.

We really need warning signs telling people that black benches in the Texas summer sun might be hot? This is a matter for our judicial system?

And then she would have just had 3rd degree burns on her hand instead of her ass.

I can't even imagine getting 3rd degree burns through clothing. Perhaps the clothing actually made it worse (either burning into her skin, or preventing her from realizing the temperature of the bench at first).

Well when you touch something with your hand, you just touch it briefly. Unless it was 350 degrees, I doubt it would have given her third degree burns from a very brief touch.

And I am sure she was wearing shorts.

[ttt]

Aug 17, 2012 12:11:08 GMT -5 overture said:

ttt, to me this is about the stadium not being designed safely, which needs to carry consequences for the organization so that they are compelled to fix it. Are we sure there are no building codes being violated here?

But then why is she suing them based on them not having warning signs that black things in the hot Texas sun can be hot?

[overture]

Aug 17, 2012 13:04:51 GMT -5 ttt said:

Aug 17, 2012 12:11:08 GMT -5 overture said:

ttt, to me this is about the stadium not being designed safely, which needs to carry consequences for the organization so that they are compelled to fix it. Are we sure there are no building codes being violated here?

But then why is she suing them based on them not having warning signs that black things in the hot Texas sun can be hot?

Is that the main point of their argument? The article says that suit includes this, but I don't know that the suit rests on it.

[poutinedreams]

The right to take on someone richer and infinitely more powerful with a reasonable opportunity for justice should never be considered frivolous. Everyone is entitled to sue, but not everyone is entitled to win. She feels that the Cowboys have some responsibility for her injury. A third party will make a determination of the level of responsibility, and everyone will live with the decision.

[Deleted]

I'm voting frivolous, with qualifications.

I don't believe she suffered these burns as a result of just sitting her ass down and getting back up immediately when when realized it was too hot. If that's possible, then yeah, maybe the Cowboys do deserve some of the blame.

But if she chose to sit down at this free bench outside the stadium where a free scrimmage is being held and remained there after realizing it was hot, that's on her. The bench is not a paid seat, it's a convenience/decorative landscaping item that may not be practical for all weather conditions.

If she had paid for a seat in the stadium and that's all that was offered, I'd feel more sympathy. I once had seats in the centerfield bleachers at Fenway that were so hot I stood instead, and left the game early.

[ttt]

Aug 17, 2012 13:05:22 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

Aug 17, 2012 11:34:52 GMT -5 rosiedozie said:

A bench getting hot enough to make you go "ouch" is one thing. A bench getting hot enough to give her 3rd degree burns is another.

It's Texas - your builder/designer/whatever needs to take the sun and heat into consideration when designing a sitting area.

I vote not frivolous.

This is where I am. I also need to know whether anyone else has been injured on this bench and whether the materials used were "standard."

But right now, I say not frivolous.

Well I was wondering this too. I guess there isn't really enough information in this article for me to have a strong opinion about it one way or another. But how much control do you really have over the temperature of an outdoor bench in August in Texas? I don't know much about bench design, but I would think there's only so much you can do to keep outdoor seating from getting really, really hot in the Texas summer sun.

[ttt]

Aug 17, 2012 13:20:01 GMT -5 sandsonik said:

But if she chose to sit down at this free bench outside the stadium where a free scrimmage is being held and remained there after realizing it was hot, that's on her. The bench is not a paid seat, it's a convenience/decorative landscaping item that may not be practical for all weather conditions.

This is a good point. Was this bench even advertised (for lack of a better word) as a seat? Did the Cowboys actually tell her to sit there?

[ttt]

sbp, can you comment on the other post? If this was a decorative bench and not an official seat, and she took it upon herself to sit there, does that change things?

[wawa]

Aug 17, 2012 13:26:09 GMT -5 ttt said:

sbp, can you comment on the other post? If this was a decorative bench and not an official seat, and she took it upon herself to sit there, does that change things?

what in the world is a decorative bench?

As somebody who occasionally specs street "furniture" all benches are for sitting. Even if they also happen to look pretty. A bench shaped object that is dangerous for sitting would be a ridiculous thing to install in an area accessible to people who are likely to want to sit.

I have no idea how that that applies in a legal sense - I just know that from a engineer's ethical guidelines sense - specing something that I know is probably going to get sat on, which is not actually suited for that purpose is not acceptable.

ETA: or just ditto sbp. I really should refresh before posting.

[marynjoe]

Aug 17, 2012 13:03:22 GMT -5 ttt said:

Aug 17, 2012 12:09:33 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

And then she would have just had 3rd degree burns on her hand instead of her ass.

I can't even imagine getting 3rd degree burns through clothing. Perhaps the clothing actually made it worse (either burning into her skin, or preventing her from realizing the temperature of the bench at first).

Well when you touch something with your hand, you just touch it briefly. Unless it was 350 degrees, I doubt it would have given her third degree burns from a very brief touch.

And I am sure she was wearing shorts.

What if a younger child went over and sat on it and got burned? Would that change your opinion?

[pamela]

How drunk was she that she sat there long enough to get that level of burns. Yes, marble is going to hold a lot of heat, but it isn't, even in 110 degree Texas going to ever give you a burn as soon as you sit on it. You'd have to stay there for a while for it to give up it's stored heat to your tissue.

And everyone in Texas (should) know that you check what you're about to sit on outside. For example, most open air stadiums have metal bleachers - you always check with your hand briefly to see if you need to lay a towel on your seat before plunking down.

[Deleted]

We have had a few slides replaced on local playgrounds due to burning children. One by us was at 10 in the morning, not all that hot maybe high 80s. The child slid, not sat for any length of time, and had second degree burns. It doesn't take long for skin get a third degree burn.

[UMaineTeach]

Aug 17, 2012 22:09:36 GMT -5 rehabaddict said:

We have had a few slides replaced on local playgrounds due to burning children. One by us was at 10 in the morning, not all that hot maybe high 80s. The child slid, not sat for any length of time, and had second degree burns. It doesn't take long for skin get a third degree burn.

That's what I was thinking, more than it relates to McD coffee I think it relates to playground injuries from heat. I don't know of any specific suits, but I have read about toddlers getting burned on playgrounds from the rubber fall matting that some playgrounds use. Poor materials for the climate and having the bench/playground open under poor conditions.

[seventeen]

I don't let my child go to the playground in the afternoon because of how hot the slide etc get. We've been to a number of ball games when the afternoon sun has really made our seats hot, but it's never crossed my mind to sit down all the way on the seat because of that. I sit on the edge of the seat until my shadow allows the seat to cool down a little bit before sliding back. It's just common sense that something exposed to the sun for that period of time is going to be hot. I don't think it makes a difference what color the bench is.

[basilosaurus]

Aug 17, 2012 13:20:58 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

Aug 17, 2012 13:18:46 GMT -5 poutinedreams said:

The right to take on someone richer and infinitely more powerful with a reasonable opportunity for justice should never be considered frivolous. Everyone is entitled to sue, but not everyone is entitled to win. She feels that the Cowboys have some responsibility for her injury. A third party will make a determination of the level of responsibility, and everyone will live with the decision.

I'll take Vague Platitudes for 800, Alex.

Pity me for being married to him These are our dinnertime conversations!

In plain person speak (I'm good at interpreting lo these many years later) I think he's basically saying it's not frivolous to sue, in fact, it's a great right of ours. The frivolity determination will be made by the people hearing the arguments, not us on the inernets.

Was I any more clear? Or has he made me sound vague, too?

[Deleted]

Aug 17, 2012 22:09:36 GMT -5 rehabaddict said:

We have had a few slides replaced on local playgrounds due to burning children. One by us was at 10 in the morning, not all that hot maybe high 80s. The child slid, not sat for any length of time, and had second degree burns. It doesn't take long for skin get a third degree burn.

Random side note: I couldn't figure out why all the brand new playgrounds included at least one metal slide. Those effers get even hotter than the plastic ones.

Then someone explained to me that inclusive playgrounds need a metal slide bc kids with devices (such as cochlear implants) can't go down plastic slides due to static electricity.

Interesting! The one up the street at least has a shade umbrella over the metal slide.

[WOT?*]

Actually, I agreed with poutinedreams's post, even if it was platitudinal. I speak in platitudes regularly. We could probably hold a non-conversation for hours.

[basilosaurus]

Aug 18, 2012 11:27:09 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

Aug 18, 2012 3:32:39 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

Pity me for being married to him These are our dinnertime conversations!

In plain person speak (I'm good at interpreting lo these many years later) I think he's basically saying it's not frivolous to sue, in fact, it's a great right of ours. The frivolity determination will be made by the people hearing the arguments, not us on the inernets.

Was I any more clear? Or has he made me sound vague, too?

IS THIS YOUR HUSBAND?!?! He posted something in another thread and I was like.. oohhh... you're NOT random.... and you're a man... have we finally hit the google-search goldmine?

Yep, it's my partner. I'd previously cautioned him against a wall of text so he could fit in, but he may have taken that too far

[Deleted]

Aug 17, 2012 13:05:22 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

Aug 17, 2012 11:34:52 GMT -5 rosiedozie said:

A bench getting hot enough to make you go "ouch" is one thing. A bench getting hot enough to give her 3rd degree burns is another.

It's Texas - your builder/designer/whatever needs to take the sun and heat into consideration when designing a sitting area.

I vote not frivolous.

This is where I am. I also need to know whether anyone else has been injured on this bench and whether the materials used were "standard."

But right now, I say not frivolous.

Marble's a pretty standard building material, but I don't believe there is a black material, so I beleive it was probably actually granite. Emperador marble is a dark brown marble, so maybe it was that.

Anyway, either of these natural stones are often used in hardscaping. I guess they should put warning signs at cemeteries and state houses too - don't touch the gravestones or the pillars because they might get hot.

I'm just saying....I think a person in their right mind would have stood up immediately upon realizing how hot the bench was. I don't think she sustained 3rd degree burns that quickly, although obviously I'm not a doctor and I'm talking out my ass. Something's weird about this story. Also consider that the bulk of football season occurs in fall and winter when I assume such temperatures would be rare, even in Dallas.