Church members complain about collection notices

[gazpacho]

www.abcactionnews.com/news/hillsborough-regional-news/church-members-complain-about-collection-notices

Most people who attend church are used to seeing the offering plate passed around the pews. People donate what they can as a proud member of the congregation.

But a Tampa woman told ABC Action News her church says she must pay more than $1,000 a year in donations or she wouldn't be considered a member.

"People were really friendly there, and I really enjoyed being there," said Candace Petterson.

Petterson said finding the Greater Mount Moriah Primitive Baptist

Church was a blessing. The single mother had been looking for a church closer to her new home and six months in, things were going perfectly. That is, until she received an odd letter at her home last week.

"To be a member in good standing and have the right to vote, adults are to contribute the minimum amount of $50 per month," read Petterson.

To her surprise it was from the church stating she was delinquent in her financial support.

"Fifty dollars per month, now this shocked me because I haven't heard about the $50 per month. So where did this come from?" asked Petterson. "Then Mount Moriah day is on there, $150."

The letter goes on to tell Petterson along with those two charges, she would also be on the hook for a yearly church anniversary fee of $250-- a total of $1,000 in required donations a year. Petterson says she was told one of the fees is to help pay off debt held by the church.

"What church charges you to help pay off what they're going through, I'm not there for that," said Petterson.

Even Petterson's 11-year-old child would have to meet the financial obligations, or also face possible scrutiny.

"My child don't have a job, I'm her parent. She's 11 years old. Why would you charge a child $5 a month to be a member of a church?" said Petterson.

We reached out to church leaders who acknowledged the letter had come from them, but did not offer any other explanation.

We also left several messages for the church's pastor, but so far, have not heard back. At this point, Petterson says she'll now try and find a new place of worship. But she worries others might be being taken advantage of by what amounts to a membership fee.

"It's like you say to me, if you want to be a member of this church, you need to pay this. If you want to find God, it don't say anything like that in the Bible," said Petterson.

[AJL]

It's a good thing she's not Jewish.

[fredaruth]

I would out a penny in the collection plate.

[panicked]

This is just one more reason why people hate organized religion and churches in general.

[AJL]

You know what? Churches don't run themselves for free. You still have to pay for utilities, building upkeep, clergy, staff, resources for Sunday school, etc. I worked for a church for 3 years and it's like pulling teeth trying to get congregants to donate on their own will, but the expectation of resources and programming is still high even when there is no money.

Synagogues have worked on a membership style system for ages. We have a suggested MINIMUM membership pledge of $2400/year. No one who can not afford that has to pay it. You give what you can, be it $18 a year or $10,000, but you give.

[pamela]

Our church does have a minimum to be considered active for purposes of reduced school tuition. But it's only $350 for 1 kid, max $600, a year.

[cookiemdough]

I think it is common to have a annual amount but it is voluntary and the whole sending a note home just screams collection agency. That being said there was a church back when I lived in the south that made members show tax returns to guarantee they did the appropriate amount of tithing.

[msmerymac]

My church has a really small regular congregation. Like 2-3 dozen people per week on average small. Like around 100 people for major holidays and events small.

While, as members, we have envelopes and label our donations, there is absolutely no minimum. In fact, the church celebrated its 275th anniversary in May with a brunch, and there was a suggested donation of $15 per person. Some people wanted to put in a whole paragraph about how the church has undergone a bunch of expensive projects in the past year, blah blah blah, and our Pastor ex-nayed that pretty quick. His philosophy is that people should not feel burdened financially at all, and people in the seats are what matters. Money will follow if it needs to. Nothing to worry about.

I must admit, I sometimes wonder how our church survives. I guess I should pay more attention to the financial reports.

Donations are a weird thing. "Here! It's church! Give us money!" Yeah, they need money, but it doesn't seem very Jesus-y.

[msmerymac]

Jul 15, 2015 19:39:02 GMT -5 cookiemdough said:

I think it is common to have a annual amount but it is voluntary and the whole sending a note home just screams collection agency. That being said there was a church back when I lived in the south that made members show tax returns to guarantee they did the appropriate amount of tithing.

What did they consider the appropriate amount? 

Now that we are members, we do more than we were, and I think I'll round up to a decent number at the end of the year, but it's still, like, 1% of our gross income. 

[laurenpetro]

My step-brother said his church requests income statements so they know how much to expect from your tithe.

[msmerymac]

Jul 15, 2015 20:13:25 GMT -5 1234FIF! said:

Jul 15, 2015 20:05:15 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

What did they consider the appropriate amount? 

Now that we are members, we do more than we were, and I think I'll round up to a decent number at the end of the year, but it's still, like, 1% of our gross income. 

You tithe the tenth, which is ten percent of your income. 

Yeah, I know that's a regular tithe, but *gulp*. I thought only Mormons did that these days. 

[cookiemdough]

Jul 15, 2015 20:17:47 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

Jul 15, 2015 20:13:25 GMT -5 1234FIF! said:

You tithe the tenth, which is ten percent of your income. 

Yeah, I know that's a regular tithe, but *gulp*. I thought only Mormons did that these days. 

Well Mormons and those that attend churches that demand you turn over your tax returns

[lyssbobiss, Command, B613]

One of my grandmothers used to be the church secretary and she took up the offering every week and kept track of it and everything. If she didn't feel like you were giving enough, she told literally everyone about it. And she would tell people how much so-and-so gave every week and would then comment on how fancy their car/house/clothes/etc were. It was absolutely gross.

[cookiemdough]

Jul 15, 2015 19:49:40 GMT -5 pennypenny said:

Jul 15, 2015 19:39:02 GMT -5 cookiemdough said:

I think it is common to have a annual amount but it is voluntary and the whole sending a note home just screams collection agency. That being said there was a church back when I lived in the south that made members show tax returns to guarantee they did the appropriate amount of tithing.

The church across from Six Flags does that too. Or they used to. Where they do that at?

I don't have an issue with a church making a suggestion because they do have to operate, but to say that a person cannot be an actual member without that just seems wrong. Especially if they don't know a person's financial situation. And then to also as for more from a minor??

For the church I grew up in, the giving was kind of based on the groups or positions held in the church.  So for example my dad was on the trustee board and they had an annual goal.  Certain ministries within the church had annual goals as wells.  I think just as a member I continued to give for years even after I moved away which was about $200 a year?  So not much.  Again it was voluntary and this was not like a mega church that was flush with cash, they really relied on giving just to meet the mortgage.  But membership was based on whether you joined the church not your financial standing.  

The church across from Six Flags is Evangel.  Yeah, I have no idea how they fund that place.  It is HUGE.

[orangeblossom]

I agree that places of worships don't fund themselves, but I dislike the idea of getting a letter about your lack of contributions.

What a person gives is between them and their God. If it's not 10% or the agreed upon contribution for the church, then so be it.

The only time I'd be okay with it, is in cases like pamela, where school tuition and things of that nature are involved.

I don't know though, getting a letter is better than having an ATM in the church or people standing at the door, so that people can't leave during offering (a church in NC used to do this).

[panicked]

So, semi-related rant: Jesus ministered to the poor. He didn't ask for tax returns, he didn't gossip about people that couldn't give, there wasn't a demand for money. The clergy should be the same way. You don't become a pastor (or whatever your denomination calls it) to become wealthy. I truly believe that it is a calling and that calling comes with a simple financial life. I judge the SHIT out of any church leader who drives an expensive car, wears expensive clothes, and sends their children to private school, but stands at the pulpit and preaches about greed and envy. I do not want fund someone's lifestyle. I expect some of my tithe to support the pastor. I do not expect my tithe to fund extravagance.

Also, people should never feel that they can't afford church. If you feel the need to go, you should be able to go without feelings "less than." Churches who keep track make me angry on so many levels.

[orangeblossom]

Jul 15, 2015 20:42:17 GMT -5 pennypenny said:

Jul 15, 2015 20:39:32 GMT -5 orangeblossom said:

I agree that places of worships don't fund themselves, but I dislike the idea of getting a letter about your lack of contributions.

What a person gives is between them and their God. If it's not 10% or the agreed upon contribution for the church, then so be it.

The only time I'd be okay with it, is in cases like pamela, where school tuition and things of that nature are involved.

I don't know though, getting a letter is better than having an ATM in the church or people standing at the door, so that people can't leave during offering (a church in NC used to do this).

My church has a credit union. We don't use it, but I understand why they started it. They aren't pushy about it though. You can also tithe with an app. That cracks me up. I guess they are trying to keep up with the times.

I don't mind church credit unions. I think those are great, actually.

I have a problem with ATMs for the sole purpose of making sure people can tithe before they leave or get funds for a random offering.

[sushi]

The letter seems quite icky to me. I don't like the flat tax for our country, so why would I think a flat tax in a church is a good idea?

Or maybe I'm just resentful that my dad made me tithe 10% of my allowance. I didn't get much allowance at all. Like a dollar a week until high school.

[gazpacho]

I understand the churches have to operate. But, I am not comfortable with requiring folks to give a certain amount. Most of the churches that I have been affiliated with didn't have a tithing requirement. People donated what they had and what was in their hearts. They did, however, encourage/require folks to contribute in other ways (e.g., mowing the lawn; helping with activities, etc).

[katfco]

I've never heard of places of worship having expectations of certain amounts. Our collection is always a mix of cash and checks. Sometimes they do remind people that the church does depend on the regular donations--like when people go away for a few weeks and therefore don't give, but the church was expecting that money--but the only way they know how much anyone gives is if they happen to write a check.

DH and I used to joke at our old church that we always knew when it was budget Sunday--they day they shared the annual budget--because the sermon or communion talk would center around giving.

[emilyj]

There is no way in hell I would give my tax returns to a church. That's just gross.

[LoveTrains]

As others have said, churches need money to run. If you go every week and are a member, you should give something. I don't think it's inappropriate to send solicitation but that one was poorly worded.

panicked it's a little ridiculous to address that a pastor's only income is church. They could be independently wealthy or have a spouse with a lucrative career. One should be able to view your church's financials if you have concerns about how money is being spent but you can't assume that bc the pastor has a luxury car or her kids go to private school that she went into the ministry for the wrong reasons. My mom is a pastor and we had all those things but it wasn't from mom's income.

[skwcm80]

Jul 15, 2015 19:39:02 GMT -5 cookiemdough said:

I think it is common to have a annual amount but it is voluntary and the whole sending a note home just screams collection agency. That being said there was a church back when I lived in the south that made members show tax returns to guarantee they did the appropriate amount of tithing.

There is church local to me that did that, or so I heard. 

[panicked]

Jul 15, 2015 22:08:22 GMT -5 LoveTrains said:

As others have said, churches need money to run. If you go every week and are a member, you should give something. I don't think it's inappropriate to send solicitation but that one was poorly worded.

panicked it's a little ridiculous to address that a pastor's only income is church. They could be independently wealthy or have a spouse with a lucrative career. One should be able to view your church's financials if you have concerns about how money is being spent but you can't assume that bc the pastor has a luxury car or her kids go to private school that she went into the ministry for the wrong reasons. My mom is a pastor and we had all those things but it wasn't from mom's income.

I get that and I think it's not so much the good, decent pastors who work hard and have other income, but the greedy ones who feel that they "deserve" thugs for choosing the religious life. How many church people do you hear about being unsighted for embezzlement or fraud? They sure aren't doing it to help the poor... I think a lot of it is demeanor and how genuine people are as to how it comes across, ykwim?

[lyssbobiss, Command, B613]

Up until my dad was defrocked, he was a minister and obviously our family had to survive partly on his income, which came from the church which came from its members. I think giving is great, I think the expectation of a particular percentage (biblical or not) is squicky to me. Definitely get your nose out of my financials, church.

I will say that while I appreciate it when a church is doing well and the members are really giving and the leaders are doing well, I have a threshold for where it crosses over to ostentatious and showy and gross. Like, did anyone else watch Laguna Beach? Season one, that Christina girl's dad was a pastor at the Crystal Cathedral and she got a boob job for graduation. On the show they made it look like she got a bible, because her dad didn't want it on air. But yeah, the parishioners' money went for boobs. That's my line.

[IIOY]

Our church solicits all the time and I don't think that's a huge deal,* although my favorite was the request one week in church that we all pledge $10,000 in addition to our regular tithing, as the church handed out pledge forms on the spot. I'm sure everyone sitting there had a spare ten grand sitting around. Anyway, I would divorce my husband before I'd turn over any tax returns to any church because that's going too far IMO.

*As a non-Catholic, it took me years to acclimate to the idea of solicitations. My church never, ever asked for money, and doing so is frowned upon.

[wambam]

Primitive baptist is sort of an odd branch of fundamentalism. They are Calvinists but don't want anyone to think they are Calvinists. Most IFBers would view them as heretics but they're firmly in that realm. It's weird. Oh and they don't believe in instrumental music.

[marriedfilingjoint]

Jul 15, 2015 22:17:36 GMT -5 skwcm80 said:

Jul 15, 2015 19:39:02 GMT -5 cookiemdough said:

I think it is common to have a annual amount but it is voluntary and the whole sending a note home just screams collection agency. That being said there was a church back when I lived in the south that made members show tax returns to guarantee they did the appropriate amount of tithing.

There is church local to me that did that, or so I heard. 

My husband's uncle goes to a church in NC that requires your tax return. They are also Primitive Baptist.

I've served on the Finance committee of my church. It absolutely costs money to offer programming, ministry, and even keep the power on. But there are better ways of doing it. We run a generosity campaign which generates over $1,000,000 annually to serve a congregation of 350-400 people and funds both local and international ministry. The campaign is low pressure--we encourage members to pledge for the following year whether they pledge $100 or $100,000.

[whiskeyandwine]

Jul 15, 2015 20:43:15 GMT -5 panicked said:

So, semi-related rant: Jesus ministered to the poor. He didn't ask for tax returns, he didn't gossip about people that couldn't give, there wasn't a demand for money. The clergy should be the same way. You don't become a pastor (or whatever your denomination calls it) to become wealthy. I truly believe that it is a calling and that calling comes with a simple financial life. I judge the SHIT out of any church leader who drives an expensive car, wears expensive clothes, and sends their children to private school, but stands at the pulpit and preaches about greed and envy. I do not want fund someone's lifestyle. I expect some of my tithe to support the pastor. I do not expect my tithe to fund extravagance.

Also, people should never feel that they can't afford church. If you feel the need to go, you should be able to go without feelings "less than." Churches who keep track make me angry on so many levels.

Eeesh.

I am not sure I should have to sacrifice my kid's education so that you (or any church member) feels more comfortable with how my H spends his salary.

Pastors (the good ones) aren't in it for the money, but they do earn their living and I think judging how the spend it is unnecessary.

[jeaniebueller]

does everyone put their names on collection envelopes? I don't attend church or believe, but when I have attended with my ILs, we always put our donation in an envelope anonymously. Is that not okay since they are keeping track?