Ryan slams Obama for GM plant that closed under W

[sunny]

Aug 18, 2012 12:03:52 GMT -5 ttt said:

It's not a gaffe. It was entirely intentional. If you say something enough times, people believe it to be true regardless of whether it is or not.

sadly, this is where I'm at. I'm equally disenchanted with the american public as I am with politicians at this point.

I get that you want to posit things in a certain way. but the lies that people get to tell these days and the people who believe everything they hear because of the person who said it...frustrating all around.

[sweettooth]

I never thought that the point was that Obama was saying he kept them open, but that he was in favor of keeping them open while Mitt Romney had said to let them go bankrupt. It seemed to me that it was just a comparison of Obama's vs. Romney's views on the issue which could give an idea of how they might react to future issues. This may not be correct, but it is the way I interpreted it when Obama brought it up.

[caden]

Aug 18, 2012 13:10:51 GMT -5 soontobeka said:

Aug 18, 2012 12:38:43 GMT -5 caden said:

The govt absolutely could have made the plant stay open if it financed restructuring it. I'm not saying they should have done that, b/c I don't believe that at all. But a presidential candidate at a shut down plant "alluding" to the govt restructuring it is meant to court votes from people who have hope they can keep the jobs. It's fair game. Blaming oil prices under Obama is wrong though.

10 months and a huge financial crisis occurred between when Obama made his comment (Feb 2008)and when the plant shut (Dec 2008) (add about another 6 weeks before he became president). I do not see the leap Ryan is making. If the government stepped in and found it more financially sound to keep it closed, then keep it closed.

I'm not saying it SHOULD ever be opened. The federal govt has no business deciding which plants open and close. I'm just pointing out it could have been reopened. Obama could finance its restructuring now and have it opened.

[caden]

Aug 18, 2012 13:27:09 GMT -5 ESF said:

I'm confused. Was the plant closed in early 2008 when Obama allegedly said these things? The article suggests it was open so I'm not following this logic.

It was open but people knew a long time before it shut down production that it was very likely on the way out. People thought even back in 2005 that it would be shut down. So it was brought up again when GM start floundering. Then in April 08 shifts were cut. Throughout the summer it looked more and more likely that this shut down was actually going to happen. I think they announced in the fall it would stop production, and then by their Christmas break they did (mostly. it actually still made some part into 2009 for Izuzu I believe.)

2005 rumor story here:
www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,176082,00.html

This goes with my previous post. Story about possibly reopening Janesville (or Spring Hill, which was also put on standby) here:
gazettextra.com/news/2010/aug/05/gm-could-reactivate-standby-plant/

[ESF]

I just went looking for the text of his speech.

www.cfr.org/us-election-2008/obamas-speech-janesville-wisconsin/p15492

This is one that he made at the Janesville GM plant in February of 2008. (so before the April 2008 shifts were cut) The Wisconsin primary that year was right after this, so I'm assuming this is the one Ryan is referencing, but if someone else can find another one, I'm open to it.

Here's Obama's statement on the issue:


I know that General Motors received some bad news yesterday, and I know how hard your Governor has fought to keep jobs in this plant. But I also know how much progress you’ve made – how many hybrids and fuel-efficient vehicles you’re churning out. And I believe that if our government is there to support you, and give you the assistance you need to re-tool and make this transition, that this plant will be here for another hundred years. The question is not whether a clean energy economy is in our future, it’s where it will thrive. I want it to thrive right here in the United States of America; right here in Wisconsin; and that’s the future I’ll fight for as your President.


Obama doesn't promise to keep it open. He says government is there to support the plant, and that he'll fight for a future in clean energy.

Sure, it sounds like pandering but so is Ryan for bringing it up and distorting the facts to suggest the plant closed on Obama's watch. I'm inclined to give Ryan the bigger douche award on this one, though I suspect the votes for that would fall strictly on party lines.

[caden]

I'm missing how this isn't a promise. Is it because he didn't use the word promise? He said the governor was fighting to keep Janesville open, so again they knew it was on the chopping block. Then he said if the govt gives them assistance (to retool into green vehicles) the plant will be able to stay open. Then said he wants WI plants to thrive and he'd fight for that as President. How would a worker at Janesville take those comments from a Presidential candidate if not as some sort of "this is how my govt can work for you" type of pledge?

[Deleted]

Aug 17, 2012 21:56:28 GMT -5 eclaires said:

I don't see how this is a gaffe.

In 2008, Bush is the outgoing president. Obama, campaigning, promises to work to keep the plant open. Plant closes in late 2008 before Obama takes office, but then he does nothing about it once he is in office even though he said he'd keep it open. Even though it closed under Bush, it doesn't necessarily mean that Obama could do nothing about it, esp since he said he would keep it open.

Look, I'm not saying he should have done anything about it or that I think this is something Ryan should slam Obama for (because I don't - I think it's kind of dumb, TBH, to even bring it up) - I just don't see how this is a gaffe. I don't think Paul Ryan thought that this closed while Obama was president, unless I'm missing something from the article.

1. You can't 'keep' something open thats not open. You might be able to re-open it.
2. The fact that Ryan thought this closed under Obama is actually the point. He should have known better, this was his district. Had he understood that Bush closed it, he could have nagged at Obama for not RE-opening it (hello, sounds like socialism), not not for not keeping it open.

[caden]

If you're going to be that picky about words then please see the plant is still not "closed". It's on stand-by.

[eclaires]

It was open when Obama stopped there and gave his speech. That's where phrasing of "keeping" it open came from.

“I remember President Obama visiting it when he was first running, saying he’ll keep that plant open,” Ryan said in Ohio Thursday, describing the shuttered GM factory in Janesville, Wis. “One more broken promise.”

He doesn't say, "he should have kept it open!" He actually doesn't appear to clarify what he means by a broken promise. I doubt he meant it literally in the sense that the only option for not breaking it would have been to keep it open, since that was an impossibility, due to it being on standby.

Or yeah, it's totally a gaffe and he's dumb and thought it "closed" (went on standby) under Obama. Okay.

[soontobeka]

Aug 18, 2012 15:44:13 GMT -5 eclaires said:

It was open when Obama stopped there and gave his speech. That's where phrasing of "keeping" it open came from.

And it went on stand by before Obama took office. And Obama did not say he would keep it open.

In the expanded quote that ESF posted, Obama is talking about fighting for a clean energy economy which that GM could play a role.

IMO, plant not open = broken promise is what Ryan is saying, otherwise why say "broken promise" when talking about the shut (on standby plant)?