Post by LoveTrains on Aug 18, 2012 22:25:01 GMT -5
The joke at the school I work at is the more you pay, the less you actually go to school. School starts Wed after Labor Day, but the kids were done by the first week of June. Not to mention the two week spring break and two week winter break. Plus every other holiday known to man during the school year (and Victory over Japan day off for the staff in August!).
The joke at the school I work at is the more you pay, the less you actually go to school.
My kids are in private (Catholic) school and I swear this isn't a joke. I was gobsmacked by how many days off my DD had last year. My mother used to be a teacher and she said that the Catholic schools were notorious for having a lot of days off. I still don't know why, since many of them seem to have no religious correlation.
As a teacher and a parent, I am against year round schooling. Truthfully if making them go earlier is so they can do better on required testing then that takes the teaching to the test to an even higher level. ENjoying summer and having those relaxed living experiences is a very valid part of life.
I grew up in CT and we always started around Labor Day and got out mid-June, depending on snow days. When I moved to GA, I was flabbergasted when they started school at the beginning of August and got out at the end of May.
Here in AL, they're just about to go back now, which is later than normal - they delayed the start of school a week to "encourage more families to vacation on the Gulf" to try and drive up that revenue. Priorities!!!
I hated starting school in early August (I went to school in GA) and it was even worse for those who played fall sports like football because that meant camp was moved up until July. Practicing outside in Georgia in July is awful. That's probably part of why they had so many players get ill or even die from the heat.
I'm against year round schools. I think it's important for kids to have the summer to do other things besides school - play and relax, do summer camps and programs (in GA we had the Governors Honors Program which was a free all-summer state program for kids who excelled in different subjects), get jobs and work for older kids, travel and see family, etc.
However, I know that for low-income kids, having summers off is a lot more detrimental because it's unlikely that they're spending their summers at camp or playing outside in safe neighborhoods. So I don't know what the answer is.
I'm against year round schools. I think it's important for kids to have the summer to do other things besides school - play and relax, do summer camps and programs (in GA we had the Governors Honors Program which was a free all-summer state program for kids who excelled in different subjects), get jobs and work for older kids, travel and see family, etc.
However, I know that for low-income kids, having summers off is a lot more detrimental because it's unlikely that they're spending their summers at camp or playing outside in safe neighborhoods. So I don't know what the answer is.
My friends kids have year round schooling (in St. Paul, MN)and they still have 6 weeks off in the summer. The extra weeks that they miss at summer are added to fall, winter, and spring breaks. So I think the opportunity to do fun summer things is still there, although a job might be harder. In this case, the elementary school only is on this schedule.
See, the thing i don't get about August school is what districts do that have old schools that don't have air-conditioning. I grew up in South Jersey (just outside of Philly), and August is generally a hot and humid month there. None of the public schools that I attended had air conditioning, and I doubt that they have put in a/c in the 15 years since I graduated from high school.
There is no way that students would be able to sit in classrooms in August that probably approach 100*. Even in early June, it woudl sometimes get to 100* in the classrooms and your butt would just be all sticky in the desk chairs. So nasty and uncomfortable - you can't focus on learning in an environment like that.
I grew up in Cleveland and had the exact same experience. Taking finals in 100 degree heat with massive humidity and no a/c was not fun.
I got so so much out of attending summer day camps and working summers. I honestly think I would have been worse off without those experiences that allowed me to grow outside of the box I was in in high school. I would hate for kids to miss out on that, especially when the social and academic pressures of high school particularly, are so acute for many. I'd much rather create the opportunity for low-income kids to have those experiences, then year round school.
And I don't think the fact that we have summer breaks are why our schools are failing. We'll just make kids do the same shitty, ineffective stuff for longer, at the expense of other experiences that could also help them grow and learn.
Also, it's bad enough America is a 10 day a year vacation society. Let's not do that to the kids. Honestly, Americans should be lobbying for more days off for adults, than more school for kids. Our society is utterly overworked and it leads to all kinds of ills in society.
I got so so much out of attending summer day camps and working summers. I honestly think I would have been worse off without those experiences that allowed me to grow outside of the box I was in in high school. I would hate for kids to miss out on that, especially when the social and academic pressures of high school particularly, are so acute for many. I'd much rather create the opportunity for low-income kids to have those experiences, then year round school.
And I don't think the fact that we have summer breaks are why our schools are failing. We'll just make kids do the same shitty, ineffective stuff for longer, at the expense of other experiences that could also help them grow and learn.
Also, it's bad enough America is a 10 day a year vacation society. Let's not do that to the kids. Honestly, Americans should be lobbying for more days off for adults, than more school for kids. Our society is utterly overworked and it leads to all kinds of ills in society.
Every word of this - you said it much better than I did. :Y: :Y: :Y:
As a teacher and a parent, I am against year round schooling. Truthfully if making them go earlier is so they can do better on required testing then that takes the teaching to the test to an even higher level. ENjoying summer and having those relaxed living experiences is a very valid part of life.
I wonder how year round school works in long distance custody agreements. Because I can't fathom how pinky would see her father (yanno, if he bothered to take all his entitled to visitation) if she was in school all the damned time. Hell, he's supposed to get six weeks every summer, so if her school went to that as others indicated, I wouldn't get to enjoy any part of summer with her.
Also, I take issue with the notion that people who don't want to see year round school or earlier school starts don't value their child's education. Regardless of when you start, you still need 180 days. Performing better on the standardized tests is a misleading measure as I doubt the kids get smarter from an earlier start. They've just had more time to absorb the information.
Lord knows we couldn't move the testing back or IDK, get rid of it all at once, hmm?
I got so so much out of attending summer day camps and working summers. I honestly think I would have been worse off without those experiences that allowed me to grow outside of the box I was in in high school. I would hate for kids to miss out on that, especially when the social and academic pressures of high school particularly, are so acute for many. I'd much rather create the opportunity for low-income kids to have those experiences, then year round school.
And I don't think the fact that we have summer breaks are why our schools are failing. We'll just make kids do the same shitty, ineffective stuff for longer, at the expense of other experiences that could also help them grow and learn.
Also, it's bad enough America is a 10 day a year vacation society. Let's not do that to the kids. Honestly, Americans should be lobbying for more days off for adults, than more school for kids. Our society is utterly overworked and it leads to all kinds of ills in society.
It wouldn't necessarily be longer, though. Many advocate for something like 10 weeks on, 2 off instead of 10-12 for the summer. Summer loss, it's not a made up term. It affects many, especially those that can't afford summer programs. Other experiences ad great, but not all get them. Let's not pretend that this is what will keep kids from having them. It wont. It also won't overwork them. The achievement gap can be incredible at start of school because of the summer loss.
As a teacher and a parent, I am against year round schooling. Truthfully if making them go earlier is so they can do better on required testing then that takes the teaching to the test to an even higher level. ENjoying summer and having those relaxed living experiences is a very valid part of life.
Amen, preach it sista.
again, summers off, even for teachers, is not the norm for most. Many teachers have to work a second job. But, I don't really care about the teachers getting the summer off (I don't, as an administrator, and I don't suffer because of it) but the effect on children is palpable, IMO, to say the least.
I got so so much out of attending summer day camps and working summers. I honestly think I would have been worse off without those experiences that allowed me to grow outside of the box I was in in high school. I would hate for kids to miss out on that, especially when the social and academic pressures of high school particularly, are so acute for many. I'd much rather create the opportunity for low-income kids to have those experiences, then year round school.
And I don't think the fact that we have summer breaks are why our schools are failing. We'll just make kids do the same shitty, ineffective stuff for longer, at the expense of other experiences that could also help them grow and learn.
Also, it's bad enough America is a 10 day a year vacation society. Let's not do that to the kids. Honestly, Americans should be lobbying for more days off for adults, than more school for kids. Our society is utterly overworked and it leads to all kinds of ills in society.
It wouldn't necessarily be longer, though. Many advocate for something like 10 weeks on, 2 off instead of 10-12 for the summer. Summer loss, it's not a made up term. It affects many, especially those that can't afford summer programs. Other experiences ad great, but not all get them. Let's not pretend that this is what will keep kids from having them. It wont. It also won't overwork them. The achievement gap can be incredible at start of school because of the summer loss.
How does having a 4 week summer not keep you from going to a 6 or 8 week summer program?
It would also make it impossible for kids to have summer jobs. Nobody is going to hire someone to work for 2 or 4 weeks only.
It sounds like it's something that would benefit low-income kids who don't have access to summer programs but it would harm middle-income kids who do have access to those programs. Is there no solution that would benefit all kids? Like making those summer programs available to the low-income kids too?
It wouldn't necessarily be longer, though. Many advocate for something like 10 weeks on, 2 off instead of 10-12 for the summer. Summer loss, it's not a made up term. It affects many, especially those that can't afford summer programs. Other experiences ad great, but not all get them. Let's not pretend that this is what will keep kids from having them. It wont. It also won't overwork them. The achievement gap can be incredible at start of school because of the summer loss.
How does having a 4 week summer not keep you from going to a 6 or 8 week summer program?
It would also make it impossible for kids to have summer jobs. Nobody is going to hire someone to work for 2 or 4 weeks only.
It sounds like it's something that would benefit low-income kids who don't have access to summer programs but it would harm middle-income kids who do have access to those programs. Is there no solution that would benefit all kids? Like making those summer programs available to the low-income kids too?
Evolution would need to take place, for sure, but I think the the long camps would evolve as well. The loss is very striking to me, though
How does having a 4 week summer not keep you from going to a 6 or 8 week summer program?
It would also make it impossible for kids to have summer jobs. Nobody is going to hire someone to work for 2 or 4 weeks only.
It sounds like it's something that would benefit low-income kids who don't have access to summer programs but it would harm middle-income kids who do have access to those programs. Is there no solution that would benefit all kids? Like making those summer programs available to the low-income kids too?
Evolution would need to take place, for sure, but I think the the long camps would evolve as well. The loss is very striking to me, though
I'm not sure how you can "evolve" an 8 week program into a 3 week one. Part of the point of some of these programs is to be away from home for an extended period of time and to be completely immersed in your subject area.
Evolution would need to take place, for sure, but I think the the long camps would evolve as well. The loss is very striking to me, though
I'm not sure how you can "evolve" an 8 week program into a 3 week one. Part of the point of some of these programs is to be away from home for an extended period of time and to be completely immersed in your subject area.
Breaks for independent work, for one. How many kids can actually take part in time away camps? Even local ones can be out of reach for so, so many
Post by charminglife on Aug 19, 2012 19:33:22 GMT -5
Not saying that it outweighs any academic benefits of year-round schooling, but as soon as I was old enough I was working during my summer breaks and that $$ funded me through the academic year for fun things that my parents couldn't afford. I know there are kids who work to pay for necessities for themselves or their families. I cant imagine that there would be a lot of employers looking to hire kids for 2/3 week chunks
I was a poor kid and I got a scholarship to go to day camp. I then ended up eventually working there as a teen and it was one of the best jobs of my life.
I was also poor, but lived in a place that still valued public education for all and our city worked hard at making our public education a good one and some paid a higher tax to fund it for everyone.
So I was a black kid, poor as shit, from single parent home-hitting all the stereotypes- and got a good education AND summer programs that enriched me, as did most of the other kids who were in the same situation.
This can be done and there are lots of other ways to do it besudes year-round school. Also, anecdotally, I worked 2 summers at a Bed-stuy elementary school just for this reason, and we honestly didn't see any real academic gains. They didn't progress on tests afterward and the same kids could have gotten the same or more from a summer academic + social enrichment, tutoring or mentoring program.
After 6 years as a Brooklyn school social worker I would say most of the reasons Johnny ain't learning have nothing to do with what is being taught and being there longer is not helping him really unless you address the thousands of other things going on in his life that are hindering him. Those behavioral issues that are making it hard for him to learn won't disappear June 5th. I would much rather see some of those kids most in need attend a program addressing social-emotional needs they may have for 6-8 weeks straight because if they are getting anything at school at all during the school year, it's probably an hour a week.
Kids are already spending way too much time in school learning to take tests and not learning enough about themselves. If you want to put a summer program in schools and let cash-strapped teachers work there, fine, but make it optional or by recommendation. Not every kid is behind academically. And I still think the better option is something else.