Carolyn Hax Live: Cousin With Stillborn Baby

[charminglife]

My eyes kept getting bigger and bigger reading this question...


Dear Carolyn,

My cousin had a stillborn baby at 35 weeks about 9 months ago. In our family, there are a few people of our generation with kids under the age of 5, myself included. Sometimes when we get together, the talk turns to difficulties around parenting. Every time somebody brings up something hard or difficult, my cousin will say something like "I wish I had that problem, that is a good problem to have." I can understand where she is coming from, but I'm sure once she has children she will see how difficult parenting can be. Right now, she is just accusing us of being ungrateful for parenting, which we are not. We are just discussing normal struggles with parenthood. Her response typically stops all conversation about parenthood at all, and several other people have told me they feel guilty for bringing it up around her at all. I think this is unfair; it is possible to love your children deeply but still have issues with them that you want to discuss. I also think it's easy for my cousin to say that we have good problems because she doesn't have these problems at all. I'm sure she will have a healthy pregnancy and baby in the future, and she might want a place to discuss the problems she has with her baby. How do I explain to her that we aren't saying we don't love our children and that one day she will be grateful to have a family that discusses parenthood? My husband thinks we should cool it with the parenthood talk around her, but I think it's just as easy for her to leave the room when it comes up. What do you think?

A: Carolyn Hax
"I think it's just as easy for her to leave the room"!? Are you for real? Your insensitivity is just staggering.

And you are so smug in your belief that she will know exactly how you feel as soon as she, what--has a child who survives!? That's what you're saying. Sweet holy crap. Imagine for a second if I suggested that it will take losing a baby for -you- to understand how hard it is to listen to you bitch about being tired when she's still reeling from -burying- her -child--that's offensive, right? Well, that's the moral low ground you've staked out.

You asked for my advice, didn't you. Okay: You don't "explain to her" anything, because what that says is that you expect her to be sensitive to your needs while showing absolutely ZERO interest in being sensitive to hers. Which are just hands-down a higher priority than yours, for reasons no one should have to explain.

"he is just accusing us of being ungrateful for parenting," you say. She is asking you to notice she's in the room before you start talking about teething as if it's the biggest bad thing ever. Okay? And I also advise maybe actually listen to what your husband is saying instead of falling all over yourself to defend your right to say every little feeling you feel without regard for anyone else.

I might need a minute.

— JUL 31, 2015 1:03 EDT

[pixy0stix]

::fist pump:: GO CAROLYN!

Although, I have mixed feelings about this. One of the ladies in my grief group has taken to going up to mothers who are having difficulties with their children in the store and saying that they shouldn't be frustrated with their child. I did a side-eye/head tilt towards her for that. You don't get to criticize someone's parenting just because you lost your child.

[charminglife]

Reader followup:

For the OP: Do you ever mention your cousin's stillborn baby? by name? Give her opportunities to talk about him / her? Ask if she is having is having a good day or a bad day? Do you acknowledge her as a mother? She may simply be asking for that grace from you and the other mothers - to be seen as the mother of a baby. The grief of giving birth to a child who never takes a breath is astonishingly great. Just take a look at the testimonials currently being run in the New York Times.

A: Carolyn Hax
Yes, grace. thank you. You choked me up.

Q: Re: Stillborn baby
So are you advising that the OP just not ever talk about children, about being a parent? Is the topic so taboo that it can't ever be brought up? You're placating the wrong person here.

A: Carolyn Hax
No, you're defending the wrong person. Advising sensitivity is not the same thing as treating a topic as "so taboo." That's your take, not mine.

— JUL 31, 2015 1:49 EDT

[pixy0stix]

Jul 31, 2015 14:57:18 GMT -5 incogneato said:

And yeah, if this woman ever says, "Well when you're a mother..." to the grieving MOTHER she deserves to be punched in the face.

With a foot stomp to her ovaries.

[heyjude]

God. This person sounds positively awful.

[aurora]

Yeah, burying your baby 9 months ago for sure trumps wanting to be able to share ideas about difficult parenting scenarios. Any person who can't be sensitive to that and find a way to include the grieving mother - who is clearly articulating that the conversations make her uncomfortable - in family conversations is just a jerk.

[Velar Fricative]

What a fucking asshole. Is it really worth making someone horribly uncomfortable and upset just so you can ask people how to handle tantrums and shit?

[lexus]

Jul 31, 2015 14:57:18 GMT -5 incogneato said:

And yeah, if this woman ever says, "Well when you're a mother..." to the grieving MOTHER she deserves to be punched in the face.

Thank you for recognizing that the OP's cousin is indeed a mother. To those of us who have had a stillborn child our biggest fear is oftentimes that our babies will be forgotten. Acknowledging the fact that she is a mother validates her baby's existence.

Is the cousin handling the conversation well? No, and I didn't always either in the beginning. I hope the OP learns some compassion and that her cousin finds a way to approach these difficult situations as she heals.

[KateAggie]

A WHOLE 9 months ago? Geez, she should totally be over it by now.

I would like to throat punch that woman, kick her in the groin, and park her in the middle of Alaska in winter. And she still wouldn't hurt as much as her cousin. Not even close.

[Deleted]

9 months ago is so recent. Our friends had a stillborn daughter almost exactly 2 years ago and it seems so recent.

It's not that hard to take it down a notch and not be a dick to people.

[penguingrrl]

What a fucking self absorbed asshole. Her cousin is grieving a loss she clearly can't even comprehend, of course she wants her family to be sensitive to her needs. And it's been less than a year since probably one of the most difficult losses a person can experience. The writer can go to hell with that shit.

[KB]

This is why I don't like people. They can't think about the grieving mother who lost a child only 9 months ago. It's all about them. So shitty and self-absorbed.

[blink]

JFC, people really suck. How does this person not feel like a complete and utter asshole when she talks to her cousin?

[Sloane]

What I don't get is that there are multiple people in her family that think like this? I mean is there not one other person there that shuts this down?

[tres3]

I can't even imagine losing a child and the OP is a wench. My grandmother lost my aunt when she was infant. 60 years later my grandmother still said it was the hardest thing still mourned the loss of her.

[summer]

So when the cousin makes a comment, does anyone acknowledge her grief or ask how she is? Jesus, they just go sullen and silent and stew over having to stop their complaining for a second and don't say boo about the person hurting in front of them? Ugh

[bears]

Jul 31, 2015 20:55:47 GMT -5 Sloane said:

What I don't get is that there are multiple people in her family that think like this? I mean is there not one other person there that shuts this down?

My guess is this bitch just projects that everyone else is an asshole too.