I need advice re religion

[carawestt]

This got long.

Back story: a couple months ago, my MIL asked me about being an atheist. She was just asking what made me come to that decision and if she could still express her faith when me and the boys are around, if my H still believes and so on. I told her that yes, my H believes but he isn't a church goer and that if religion was important enough to him then HE could share that with the boys.

Couple weeks after that, I was packing up the bookshelf and Lincoln saw a bible and apparently asked my MIL to read it to him. I didn't witness this but he loves to read and I know he had no idea what the book was when he asked about it.

Then 2 weeks ago, Lincoln, H and FIL went to a book store and Lincoln asked for a Veggie Tales bible. Again, he saw the character on the book and had no idea what the book was. My H told him he couldn't have it.

Fast forward to last night: we went out while my ILs watched the boys. After we got home and the boys to bed, we were all talking and MIL excused herself and returned with a bag. She reminded me that I had said while I don't believe, if my H wanted to make religion part of their life that was up to him. Out she pulls two children bible/prayer books and says she bought them for my H to read to the boys since Lincoln has been asking about religion (aka the two random times he asked her to read books that he was unaware were the bible). I was tired, buzzed and completely shocked that I was able to muster up an "okay" in response. But I feel like my toes are being stepped on big time here. I said my H needed to make it a point to make it important if he wanted to, which he has NOT, not that my ILs needed to railroad him into it. What would you do?

thedahliharpa @therealmc charlielove anyone else..

She also kept mentioning not wanting to deny him like Peter? I don't what that means, katfco steph196 ladybug or anyone else that can help me out?

[Deleted]

Bc I'm nosey how was date night? That was there first time babysitting right?

[Deleted]

Nope not ok. Your H needs to talk to her and tell her that HE will buy the right books, etc, IF he decides he wants to share that with the boys. It is not her place at all.

[carawestt]

Aug 2, 2015 10:38:11 GMT -5 @jayhawkali said:

Bc I'm nosey how was date night? That was there first time babysitting right?

It was good! We went to dinner and did some shopping. And yes, first time and it went well.

[imimahoney]

Yeahhhh, no.

If your Dh wants the boys to know about the bible, jesus, etc then he needs to so it and not your MIL. While I can imagine it must be hard for someone who is faithful to have children/grandchildren who aren't, that doesn't matter. What you and your Dh want matter most, not what they want and they want need to accept that.

[carawestt]

Aug 2, 2015 10:41:32 GMT -5 @beth422 said:

Nope not ok. Your H needs to talk to her and tell her that HE will buy the right books, etc, IF he decides he wants to share that with the boys. It is not her place at all.

My H was in the room when she was telling me all this but he was showing his dad computer stuff, which means he didn't hear a word of it. All he heard was when my MIL handed him the books at the end of the convo and said, "here, read to your kids." I'm going to talk to him today and tell him how I feel.

[steph196]

Matthew 26:34
Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, Peter--this very night, before the rooster crows, you will deny three times that you even know me."

I'm guessing she is referring to your husband, who is a believer, denying Jesus by not teaching his sons about Him. She is likely disappointed that she raised her son one way and her son isn't choosing to raise his sons the same.

It's easy for me to say, because I am a believer, but I think that if Lincoln is showing interest, it is a good time for your husband to teach him. Even if it has only been a couple of times that Lincoln has been interested, that shows that he is curious. I think that your MIL probably bought the books for your husband to use when he is ready. I don't think she is forcing it on the boys, but giving your husband some tools that he can choose to use or not use since Lincoln has been showing interest.

ETA: I totally forgot about your difficult MIL when I wrote my last paragraph. I don't know if she was buying the books for when your husband was ready or to try to push it on him. Either way, your husband needs to make his decision and talk to her if he doesn't think this is something he wants to do right now.

[charlielove]

I think I'd wait to see if she continues to bring it up before I made it an issue. I'd definitely make your H deal with any of the discussions around this if at all possible though. In the meantime I'd shove the books somewhere non-accessible and tell your H it was up to him to pursue teaching the kids about religion if he wanted to do so, but if she's going to try to take on that role I'd definitely put my foot down.

I get how you're feeling. My atheism is not respected or considered in a lot of conversations that go on with DH's family whereas my family is very respectful of it.

[carawestt]

Thank you, steph196. I know a few things about the bible but I didn't know what she was referring to with Peter.

[Deleted]

I would definitely talk to your husband. If he wants to read them to L I would let him, but based on the fact it's been over 3 years and your husband hasn't done anything so far, I doubt he is interested in it. I would be annoyed but would just place the books on a high shelf and ignore them.

[carawestt]

@therealmc that is exactly how I feel! If my children choose to be religious, I will support them but I personally don't think three is old enough to make a decision. Especially since I don't think he is showing interest in the material, just attracted to the the illustrations on the front of the books. And it bothers me that my MIL told me she doesn't really like the prayers in the book she got but she wanted "to just get him something."

[carawestt]

charlielove and @lindy I was thinking about going that route as well. Don't make it a problem until/unless it is one. Things have been good with us and I don't want to rock the boat if it isn't necessary. But I know, at some point, my MIL will probably ask me if my H has read the books to him. I think my H will feel the same way I do, he doesn't like things being pushed on him and he knows that his parents will butt into his life any chance they get.

[DesertMoon]

As someone who is now agnostic/athiest ish I would be irritated, but DH is very religious and so are his parents and mine and julian has been praying, read kiddie bibles an baptized because I was religious when I married dh and after I became not religious I promised him Id still help teach our faith to the kids since it is important to him. I read him his kiddie bibles and pray with him, even though it actually bothers me quite a bit. I think your right about letting your dh choose but also if they're interested presenting the bible as stories people believe might be fine If you guys are ok with it just sounds like he's curious and there's nothin wrong with curiosity. Do whatever you both feel is right, your kids your rules.

[carawestt]

And my MIL always comes off as being so understanding and respectful of my decision, my FIL is more judgy and negative about it, but then she does things like this which contradict what she has said before.

[alicia45]

I'd have a talk with your h. You need to be a united front when it comes to religion and your mil. I think it's his job to teach about it, take them to church, etc. My Dh has been asking about getting A baptized and I told him it was on him. You want to do it, you find a church, start going, then we can do it. 3 years later, still waiting. My MIL has sent religious books and I show them to dh. He rolls his eyes and we donate them. My MIL isn't around enough to make it a big deal. If she starts taking about Jesus and the like, we'll have to have a talk with her. It's not your MIL's place to insert religion into your family. It's your family and your choice.

[claralou]

She's manipulating you both. Your H needs to make a decision on this and be clear with her about what you do or do not want your kids exposed to. Personally, I'd ask him to address sooner vs later, as I suspect it's going to continue until he does. She's not going to drop this until explicitly told to do so. If you and your H are ok with that, cool. But if not, I'd be clear about it ASAP.

[carawestt]

Aug 2, 2015 11:16:32 GMT -5 claralou said:

She's manipulating you both. Your H needs to make a decision on this and be clear with her about what you do or do not want your kids exposed to. Personally, I'd ask him to address sooner vs later, as I suspect it's going to continue until he does. She's not going to drop this until explicitly told to do so. If you and your H are ok with that, cool. But if not, I'd be clear about it ASAP.

She is very manipulative. She does it in a way where she comes off understanding and supportive but I know her. She kept hugging me and telling me she was so thankful we could talk like this. I told my H wanted to talk about it later today. I want him to handle it but I'm afraid if push comes to shove, we'll end up potentially getting into an awkward spot with them again where we go months without hearing from there and I'll be the one who gets blamed. Ugh this is hard.

[carawestt]

Aug 2, 2015 11:32:50 GMT -5 @therealmc said:

Aug 2, 2015 11:20:49 GMT -5 carawestt said:

She is very manipulative. She does it in a way where she comes off understanding and supportive but I know her. She kept hugging me and telling me she was so thankful we could talk like this. I told my H wanted to talk about it later today. I want him to handle it but I'm afraid if push comes to shove, we'll end up potentially getting into an awkward spot with them again where we go months without hearing from there and I'll be the one who gets blamed. Ugh this is hard.

I know that E's lack of faith is hurtful and confusing to my ILs so I do try to tread lightly around the subject.  My MIL almost never brings it up to me and FIL only when he has been drinking.  I try to remain as respectful as I can be, depends on how much probing occurs.  I did have to say to them that me converting would flat out never happen and that I would prefer my kids not to believe either.  

The best move here, in order to remain in the state you are in with them now, is to respectfully request that she only allow J to talk about religion to Lincoln.  You will happily accept the books or other gifts from her but unless J wants to read them to the kids, you would please like her not to be involved until Lincoln is older.  Make a deal with her maybe? Ask her to wait until he is 8 or even 10 years old and then if he is still interested, she can answer his questions.  

Anecdotally, we had some friends over last weekend and were sitting out on the deck looking and talking about the stars.  Mia was asking question after question and finally my one friend said to her, "because God made them that way".  Dylan crinkled his nose and cackled and said, "God didn't make the stars, mother nature and science did" #proudmoment

Nice, Dylan!

That is great advice, thank you. I would never ask her to not talk about her faith when we're around but talking about it to my children isn't her place at all. And yes, I understand that my H is her son but pushing something on him also isn't her place. They may believe in the same things, to different degrees, but it is up to him to decide when and if our children will be spoken to about it. My H doesn't go to church, pray or even speak about religion, he says he believes in God and that's it. It would be extremely confusing for Lincoln since he knows nothing about the subject and has never heard the name Jesus before.

[tuck]

I would shut it down hard.

My mom is a charismatic, evangelical Christian. We've had multiple fights where my mom was literally weeping that my children were going to hell, and me telling her that if her religion damns babies, then maybe her God is just a dick.

So you probably want to avoid a confrontation like that. I think your best bet is to really calmly, brightly, and with lots of intense eye contact remind her that you guys agreed that your husband was the point person for all things religious.

It took a while, but my mom is now decently respectful of us. It helps that dh is also an atheist, so his mom doesn't even bother. My grandma still sends me large print copies of Guideposts magazine every month, though.

[carawestt]

Wow, tuck. We thankfully haven't had anything like that happen.

[katfco]

It does seem like she's trying to railroad you guys into doing things her way. Your H is the agreed upon person in charge of introducing religion so he needs to be the one to tell her to back off.

As for the Peter reference, it's like Steph said, that Peter denied knowing Christ three times in his darkest hours. So she was trying to make your H feel guilty for not responding to your son's "interest"--and thereby denying Christ.

[carawestt]

Thank you, katfco. Now that I know what she was referring to, I feel more upset about it than I did last night.

[irishsara]

I wouldn't want to feel like it was pushed upon me or my children. ThAt feeling sucks and would make me push back even harder. I do wonder though, you mentioned that Lincoln found the Bible and wanted her to read it to him. Are you mad that she did?

[carawestt]

Aug 2, 2015 13:02:19 GMT -5 irishsara said:

I wouldn't want to feel like it was pushed upon me or my children. ThAt feeling sucks and would make me push back even harder. I do wonder though, you mentioned that Lincoln found the Bible and wanted her to read it to him. Are you mad that she did?

She didn't read it to him, she said she told him it was very fragile and it needed to be put away rather than just telling him no. I wasn't around, so she didn't want to do anything behind my back which I appreciate

[Deleted]

Sorry I am just seeing this. Sounds like you've had a lot of good advice.

I didn't read the whole thread. Does J WANT the boys to know about religion? If so, maybe he just didn't know how to bring it up to them/you.

If it ends with her buying the books and she doesn't push it more (or make more stupid comments) I would Just let it go and move on but if she keeps pushing then I think J needs to say something.

[carawestt]

Aug 2, 2015 19:38:07 GMT -5 ladybug said:

Sorry I am just seeing this. Sounds like you've had a lot of good advice.

I didn't read the whole thread. Does J WANT the boys to know about religion? If so, maybe he just didn't know how to bring it up to them/you.

If it ends with her buying the books and she doesn't push it more (or make more stupid comments) I would Just let it go and move on but if she keeps pushing then I think J needs to say something.

He has never expressed any interest in telling them about it, I just gave him the option to do so if he ever wanted to.

[thedahliharpa]

So that's why they are all about Veggie Tales at H's school, lol

Cara, I would make sure DH knows how to handle the conversations in the future but watch and wait for awhile, since things are just starting to improve with them. And, even if they get a few religious lessons at their house it won't impact the big picture of the values being taught at home. I have a mellower stance on the subject right now due to H's overtly religious schooling. Not mellow enough to let mil plan a baptism like she has tried to do...I hope it doesn't become a big issue with you guys. I'm glad you had a date night!!

[fusion]

oh man that's tough. In your circumstance I agree with everyone else that your husband really needs to take his stance on it and decide where he wants to be, if he wants that to be a part of his dialogue with the kids, if he wants them to learn to pray, etc. I'm afraid we are going to have some really awkward times ahead of us as well with my MIL and religion. To be clear, my husband was not raised in a religious household. His mom was "christian light" - never going to church or talking about it but would identify with Christianity- through his upbringing and then became hardcore evangelical when he was in college. Now most of her identity is related to be a Christian and her activities in and with the church. Right now she respects us even though I know it KILLS her to not say much (besides inserting religious type of talk into whatever she is talking about), but it helps that my husband and I are both very anti-religion. She knows that we personally would shut it down and it would be a huge fight if it was occurring around us. We do think that we won't be able to send them out to spend chunks of time with her alone though because of it.