This American Life - The Problem We All Live With

[EloiseWeenie]

Aug 4, 2015 9:39:55 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

Aug 4, 2015 9:28:07 GMT -5 pennypenny said:

I haven't listened to the podcast, but will later. But reading the responses here just emphasizes my mixed feelings on the subject. I live in an area that is in the middle of revitalization. Things slowed significantly with the housing bubble burst. The elementary school near me is terrible. I will not send my child there. I have said this before. I don't have an issue getting together with parents and being involved and trying to make a school better. But I will not be one of a small few parents who put in that effort and let my child be the guinea pig when I can afford to send her somewhere better. So I am part of the problem. But this is my kid I am talking about. There are some really good schools in my area even though the area is not great, but that is not what we are zoned for. So it is not like I am saying that all schools in poor areas are bad. Hell the #2 and #4 schools in my state are in the "bad county". But as long as I have the ability, I will send my DD somewhere better.

Listen to the Podcast, you are NOT part of the problem. Wait till you hear the parents of the "good" school district. I am heated.

The cheering after the rants (eta: and of course the rants)     

[iammalcolmx]

Aug 4, 2015 9:52:05 GMT -5 1234FIF! said:

I'm not listening to this.

COME ON!!! I can't be pissed alone, also I need you to invoke your Momma when you hear this student call this girl the n-word AND THEN she is asked to tutor her. PLEASE, I NEED YOUR MOMMAS REACTION.

[juliachild]

Aug 3, 2015 17:25:53 GMT -5 zelda25 said:

I really hate these people.

*ANECDOTE ALERT*

If you follow the link to Hannah-Jones ProPublica article about Normandy, it talks about how St. Louis dabbled with this in the 80s, allowing students from not-great schools in inner St. Louis to go to better schools in St. Louis County before it was ended because of "cost issues." I graduated from one of the County schools that was part of this program (attended '87-'89)--I lived in the district. A not-insignificant number of students from the city (mostly black) chose to ride buses 20 miles every day to attend my school (vast majority of district students were white). I don't know what the graduation rates were for the city kids vs. the district kids, but I do know that not even an inkling of the doom these Francis Howell chucklefucks are whining about came to pass. The school was still one of the top public high schools in the nation. No violence, no need for metal detectors, no accreditation issues; the only tomfoolery I remember while I was there--which included a rash of locker break-ins and a bomb threat--was perpetrated by (white) district kids. All of which will surprise exactly no one on this board.

I went to a St. Louis county school in the late 2000s, and we had St. Louis city students that were bussed in. I don't know which school you attended, but the program in West County hasn't ended. 

I'm listening to the podcast now. 

[zelda25]

juliachild, I was at Parkway South. I'm glad they're still doing it; the ProPublica piece reads like that all ended years and years ago.

[juliachild]

Aug 4, 2015 10:34:33 GMT -5 zelda25 said:

juliachild, I was at Parkway South. I'm glad they're still doing it; the ProPublica piece reads like that all ended years and years ago.

I went to Marquette.

I just finished listening. The sentiment of the people speaking at the town hall meeting is not new to me. This is a very common train of thought for some people in the suburbs of St. Louis. I have heard the comments about the MetroLink many many times. I think it's interesting that the two highest ranking school districts in the state (Rockwood and Parkway) both have the integration program. That is really telling of the people's "concerns." 

[iammalcolmx]

Aug 4, 2015 11:34:49 GMT -5 @choco said:

I'm working in the office today, so I can't listen until tonight. iammalcolmx, shall I send this to my MIL? She might lose her shit but I would love to get her take on it as a former public school principal. She was in the "Urban" district for half of her career so I am curious to hear her perspective.

Send it, I would love the feedback.

[threejs]

I will listen on my way home today. I'm almost scared to at this point, though.

[NitaX]

My pressure is up listening to the Town Hall segment. 

2013. 2013 That's the year of this town hall.

Imma have more comments later. 

THIS BITCH SAID DRUG SNIFFING DOGS.  

[itsme]

Aug 4, 2015 12:32:17 GMT -5 NitaX said:

THIS BITCH SAID DRUG SNIFFING DOGS.  

I see that backfiring on her.  Makes me wonder how many of their precious angel kids would get caught with drugs.

[iammalcolmx]

This has nothing to do with race, whoever said that was racist again people with White skin.

[epphd]

Aug 4, 2015 12:40:17 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

This has nothing to do with race, whoever said that was racist again people with White skin.

I listen to TAM when I run, which I am sure makes me an interesting sight. Yesterday my face was all



but also super red and sweaty. It was one of my better paces of late though, so I guess outright rage is good for speed.

[NitaX]

Aug 4, 2015 12:38:52 GMT -5 itsme said:

Aug 4, 2015 12:32:17 GMT -5 NitaX said:

THIS BITCH SAID DRUG SNIFFING DOGS.  

I see that backfiring on her.  Makes me wonder how many of their precious angel kids would get caught with drugs.

BABY DO NOT GET ME STARTED.

True story - the lil high school in a city over from Memphis had a a fucking 21 JUMP STREET style undercover drug bust of a ring. It was a freakin' huge Investigative Report in our city paper. I trit that shit out every single time someone gets cross with me about the inner city schools. NAWL. Y'all got busted. Straight up BUSTED. Don't come for me with that shit.

[Black Lavender]

Hold on, did this bitch just say they didn't want the metrolink or some kind of public transportation option because they didn't want the "different communities" coming across and bringing problems? Is she serious with this shit? I may have to finish this at home where I can freely cuss and drink wine.

[downtoearth]

I have this downloaded to listen to this afternoon... I'll be back.

[calla37]

Man, I would have been pissed. And the people who were talking about, drug sniffing dogs and robbery, we see you! Yea you are racist!

[jene]

Aug 4, 2015 14:59:54 GMT -5 Black Lavender said:

Hold on, did this bitch just say they didn't want the metrolink or some kind of public transportation option because they didn't want the "different communities" coming across and bringing problems? Is she serious with this shit? I may have to finish this at home where I can freely cuss and drink wine.

I heard this numerous times while living in St. Louis.  One of my next door neighbors also said it and was dead serious.  I was told that was why it stops at the airport, the people of the surrounding counties didn't want anyone to be able to enter easily.  

[karinothing]

I can't listen now, but this is a big issue in our district right now. The county is split between the rich white north side and the mixed income/race south side. There is a drastic difference in teat scores between the sides. There is a lot of talk from the S side about busing kids to create a more even balance. As you can imagine north is not happy with the idea and I doubt it will happen.

Right now we are also having similar issues because the county is building a ton of affordable housing, largely concentrated on the south side. One school in particular saw an influx of 150 students from the new apt and the schools performance plummeted. But the county also did not anticipate the higher need for resources in the affected schools.

I am a big fan of desegregation when it comes to schoola but the districts have to be willing and able to bulk up services for it to work. IMO

[meshaliuknits]

Aug 4, 2015 14:59:54 GMT -5 Black Lavender said:

Hold on, did this bitch just say they didn't want the metrolink or some kind of public transportation option because they didn't want the "different communities" coming across and bringing problems? Is she serious with this shit? I may have to finish this at home where I can freely cuss and drink wine.

Don't you know we like to roll up into the fancy hoods and take those stolen flat screens home on the bus/train?

[skwcm80]

Aug 4, 2015 9:39:55 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

Aug 4, 2015 9:28:07 GMT -5 pennypenny said:

I haven't listened to the podcast, but will later. But reading the responses here just emphasizes my mixed feelings on the subject. I live in an area that is in the middle of revitalization. Things slowed significantly with the housing bubble burst. The elementary school near me is terrible. I will not send my child there. I have said this before. I don't have an issue getting together with parents and being involved and trying to make a school better. But I will not be one of a small few parents who put in that effort and let my child be the guinea pig when I can afford to send her somewhere better. So I am part of the problem. But this is my kid I am talking about. There are some really good schools in my area even though the area is not great, but that is not what we are zoned for. So it is not like I am saying that all schools in poor areas are bad. Hell the #2 and #4 schools in my state are in the "bad county". But as long as I have the ability, I will send my DD somewhere better.

Listen to the Podcast, you are NOT part of the problem. Wait till you hear the parents of the "good" school district. I am heated.

I just got to this part.

[chw57]

Aug 4, 2015 12:51:08 GMT -5 epphd said:

Aug 4, 2015 12:40:17 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

This has nothing to do with race, whoever said that was racist again people with White skin.

I listen to TAM when I run, which I am sure makes me an interesting sight. Yesterday my face was all



but also super red and sweaty. It was one of my better paces of late though, so I guess outright rage is good for speed.

I listen while I run too. When I was listening to the one about the Hasidim taking over the school board on New York I had to stop and walk because I was practically shaking with rage and had to collect myself

[sfy]

I can't. Two students in the AP English class being taught by a teacher not certified to teach it, who is in and out, gave them a junior high level worksheet in a science lab because the real classroom is mildewed and unventilated? Come on. That broke my heart...so much more than the parents at Francis Howell, because at this point, I expect that. Although, I will say that I am so sick and tired of the hate against black children, I can take it, I'm built for that shit, tbh, but between the Trayvons, the Tamirs, and the sheer hatred and vitriol that (some? many?) grown ass white people have for black children, I feel like I might lose my shit.

pennypenny, the question is, and quite frankly, this is only something you know, not whether you would send your child to an underperforming school, but would you have a problem with children from an underperforming school coming into your high achieving school. These are very different situations.

That was just awful.

[Bad Dingo]

I just listened to this on my walk (I don't run anywhere!). That town hall meeting was infuriating.

I'm looking forward to the next segment about Hartford. I think they've done some amazing things for kids throughout the region.

Example - a STEM magnet that is nationally ranked:
www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/Connecticut-Magnet-School-Ranked-First-in-United-States-261138381.html

[laurenpetro]

Aug 4, 2015 16:46:26 GMT -5 meshaliuknits said:

Aug 4, 2015 14:59:54 GMT -5 Black Lavender said:

Hold on, did this bitch just say they didn't want the metrolink or some kind of public transportation option because they didn't want the "different communities" coming across and bringing problems? Is she serious with this shit? I may have to finish this at home where I can freely cuss and drink wine.

Don't you know we like to roll up into the fancy hoods and take those stolen flat screens home on the bus/train?

Goddamn, woman. Don't make
Me laugh at a time like this.

[NitaX]

Aug 4, 2015 14:59:54 GMT -5 Black Lavender said:

Hold on, did this bitch just say they didn't want the metrolink or some kind of public transportation option because they didn't want the "different communities" coming across and bringing problems? Is she serious with this shit? I may have to finish this at home where I can freely cuss and drink wine.

Yes. And iammalcolmx correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this also a thing in ATL. Marta wasn't run all the way out because the suburban folks didn't want the folks associated with public transit out in their neighborhood.

[NitaX]

Aug 4, 2015 16:31:24 GMT -5 jene said:

Aug 4, 2015 14:59:54 GMT -5 Black Lavender said:

Hold on, did this bitch just say they didn't want the metrolink or some kind of public transportation option because they didn't want the "different communities" coming across and bringing problems? Is she serious with this shit? I may have to finish this at home where I can freely cuss and drink wine.

I heard this numerous times while living in St. Louis.  One of my next door neighbors also said it and was dead serious.  I was told that was why it stops at the airport, the people of the surrounding counties didn't want anyone to be able to enter easily.  

Not that I like this, but this is not an uncommon sentiment.

[sfy]

Aug 4, 2015 21:03:24 GMT -5 pennypenny said:

Aug 4, 2015 20:01:36 GMT -5 sfy said:

pennypenny, the question is, and quite frankly, this is only something you know, not whether you would send your child to an underperforming school, but would you have a problem with children from an underperforming school coming into your high achieving school. These are very different situations. 

I have no problem with diversity of all kinds in school. I just don't want to send my child to a terrible school when I can fortunately provide better. And I understand that I am fortunate to be able to do so.

And this is, of course, very different from what was happening with the parents in the Francis Howell district.

Re transportation - the issue has never been about who is able to travel into a neighborhood as a mere visitor.  The issue is really the fact that public transportation from the city into the surburbs will allow people presently tethered to the city because they do not drive and/or do not have reliable enough transportation and/or cannot afford the gas that it takes to make a daily commute from suburbia to the city to move.  This is what they do not want.  Unfortunately, I live in one of those suburbs that has voted against public transportation and the funny thing is that the demographics of the suburbs is changing/has changed/will continue to change anyway because of gentrification. The city is becoming more connected than ever, thanks to things like the Beltline, and I think people are finally getting that it has set the suburbs behind, not just in terms of being connected, but economically, too, because businesses want to be located in places that do not have awful commutes.  This is my sister's area of expertise, so she can break it down perfectly, but suffice it to say, it hasn't gone as planned.  Add into that that the Atlanta metro area and its development plans are pretty much always an utter clusterfuck and dream deferred (but somehow the city manages to continue to attract residents and business alike) and no one should be surprised.  Anyway, there is finally now majority support for bringing public transportation out here, but people do not want to pay for it, and it will obviously increase taxes.  

[threejs]

My problem is that I just don't know what to DO. I feel so helpless. That there are human beings who can speak about children the way those Frances Howell parents did -- I just...

I try really hard not to be part of the problem. My daughter goes to a private, independent school. There isn't enough diversity amongst the faculty and staff, but given the area we live in, the student body is pretty diverse. Last year, there was a new kid in her 2nd grade class - a black boy who'd come from another independent school where he'd had a lot of behavior problems. Another Mom, a black parent, did not like this kid or his family from day one. She thought they were too ghetto and she wasn't paying the money she was paying for her daughter to go to school with the likes of him. It was awful. I fought with her all through the fall and winter. She literally was the black version of the Frances Howell parents, and even though she has boys of her own, I couldn't convince her that this was a CHILD whose parents wanted the same level of education for him as she wanted for her children. The kid DID have behavior problems. He was flippant and rude to the teacher and other kids, used a lot of bad language. He upset my DD more than once with mean comments he'd make. There was an accident in PE one day and this woman's daughter ended up with a split lip. The mom swore this boy caused her daughter to fall on purpose. She could not be convinced otherwise, and from that day forward she wanted him gone for good. The teacher and head of school tried really hard to work with him. I tried really hard to get the other parents to see that he was a smart kid who could be funny and warm, that none of our kids are angels and that with time and the right resources he'd calm down and fit in well. In the end, his parents pulled him from the school just before Winter break. I reached out to the Mom to find out why and she never answered me.

I don't even know why I'm telling that story here. Except that it bothers me that too many of us would feel no qualms about behaving like these parents did, particularly when we feel we have "arrived." And that makes me feel like there's no hope for any of this.

[boxerdog]

Aug 4, 2015 20:55:34 GMT -5 NitaX said:

Aug 4, 2015 14:59:54 GMT -5 Black Lavender said:

Hold on, did this bitch just say they didn't want the metrolink or some kind of public transportation option because they didn't want the "different communities" coming across and bringing problems? Is she serious with this shit? I may have to finish this at home where I can freely cuss and drink wine.

Yes. And iammalcolmx correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this also a thing in ATL. Marta wasn't run all the way out because the suburban folks didn't want the folks associated with public transit out in their neighborhood.

Yep, there is always a big fight whenever they start talking about expanding to the northern 'burbs.

I listened to this yesterday and the woman making her snide comments about the "mom who came up and cried about how this is racist" and then turned around and basically called her racist about did me in. RAGE!

[iammalcolmx]

Aug 4, 2015 20:55:34 GMT -5 NitaX said:

Aug 4, 2015 14:59:54 GMT -5 Black Lavender said:

Hold on, did this bitch just say they didn't want the metrolink or some kind of public transportation option because they didn't want the "different communities" coming across and bringing problems? Is she serious with this shit? I may have to finish this at home where I can freely cuss and drink wine.

Yes. And iammalcolmx correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this also a thing in ATL. Marta wasn't run all the way out because the suburban folks didn't want the folks associated with public transit out in their neighborhood.

Yup I have head this. I live in the City and love it, you have been to my house.

[epphd]

Aug 5, 2015 9:43:34 GMT -5 threejs said:

My problem is that I just don't know what to DO. I feel so helpless. That there are human beings who can speak about children the way those Frances Howell parents did -- I just...

I try really hard not to be part of the problem. My daughter goes to a private, independent school. There isn't enough diversity amongst the faculty and staff, but given the area we live in, the student body is pretty diverse. Last year, there was a new kid in her 2nd grade class - a black boy who'd come from another independent school where he'd had a lot of behavior problems. Another Mom, a black parent, did not like this kid or his family from day one. She thought they were too ghetto and she wasn't paying the money she was paying for her daughter to go to school with the likes of him. It was awful. I fought with her all through the fall and winter. She literally was the black version of the Frances Howell parents, and even though she has boys of her own, I couldn't convince her that this was a CHILD whose parents wanted the same level of education for him as she wanted for her children. The kid DID have behavior problems. He was flippant and rude to the teacher and other kids, used a lot of bad language. He upset my DD more than once with mean comments he'd make. There was an accident in PE one day and this woman's daughter ended up with a split lip. The mom swore this boy caused her daughter to fall on purpose. She could not be convinced otherwise, and from that day forward she wanted him gone for good. The teacher and head of school tried really hard to work with him. I tried really hard to get the other parents to see that he was a smart kid who could be funny and warm, that none of our kids are angels and that with time and the right resources he'd calm down and fit in well. In the end, his parents pulled him from the school just before Winter break. I reached out to the Mom to find out why and she never answered me.

I don't even know why I'm telling that story here. Except that it bothers me that too many of us would feel no qualms about behaving like these parents did, particularly when we feel we have "arrived." And that makes me feel like there's no hope for any of this.

We had a similar problem child, in our daycare (for which I am on the board of directors). However, the child is white as are most of the kids. He had behavior problems, and many parents wanted him removed. Our director said no - these are children who have different needs and who develop along different trajectories. I support her in that - we can only judge another child as being a "problem" when we have the benefit of having typically developing or easy kids. Every school has problem kids. And every time, parents want that kid removed. But hey, that is part of life- some kids lack impulse control, have behavioral or developmental issues, and yes - they take time out of your child's day. So do gifted kids who need extra enrichment.

All of this is NOT to set aside your story as "not about race" - I think indeed, it shows that there's an additional confounding variable added to an already timeworn issue of "kids have different needs and challenges" reality when you are dealing with minority kids in majority white schools. Because the mom that you refer to does not only feel like she deserves an exceptional experience, she knows how rare it is to have one. I cannot even imagine how hard it is for the parents of the "problem" child.