I know everyone is going to pitch a fit over blaming mom yet again for something, but I have to say that it sets my teeth on edge when I hear grown-ups, and especially women, complain that they are terrible at math, and especially when they do it in front of their children. You don't need to know calculus to be "good" at math. Stop shit-talking yourself. While you're at it, stand up straighter and eat your veggies, OK? From WaPo:
At age 12, I started sulking about math. Up until sixth grade, math was effortless, if not as fun as reading. But now I had to work at it. It made me feel stupid, even though my grades weren’t bad, mostly B’s and C’s.
“It’s okay to be bad at math,” my mother told me. “I’m not good at math, either.” Her tone was sympathetic, if a bit exasperated. This wasn’t the first time we’d had this exact conversation that year.
My mother and I never had much in common. She knows how to walk into a room and own it; I skulk in the shadows. She had perfect eyesight well into middle age; I was severely astigmatic and nearsighted in first grade. Her taste in clothing and accessories has always been flawless; I am always in need of a makeover. I knew she loved me, but I sensed early I was never the daughter she dreamed of. Had there been a daughter store, I was sure I’d have been left on the shelf for another model.
So when I repeatedly heard that year that it was okay to be bad at math because she was, too, I clung to this bond, hoping we’d get closer through our shared weakness.
That was a mistake, and I became a statistic. Research shows 9 through 14 is the crucial age span for getting kids interested in math. Once they lose interest, they don’t pursue careers in STEM or finance, which tend to be higher-paying. Researchers have found that girls are more likely to worry about their math ability than boys, even if in reality they do as well in class and on tests.
My mom’s approach to my concerns, or the fallout, weren’t unusual. Mothers who think they’re bad at math risk passing on those feelings to their children, and daughters are particularly susceptible, since the same-sex parent is their model for adulthood. And research has shown that mothers are far more likely to encourage their sons than their daughters to engage in mathematical thinking.
But it’s unfair to pin all the blame on my mother. There were other factors, such as indifferent or incompetent teachers and my growing sense that girls who like math are suspect to boys — and at 12, what boys thought was suddenly very important.
I also lost my biggest champion that year. My grandfather Freddie, my mother’s father, was a pediatric radiologist who loved to learn. He taught me to read. He always had a puzzle we could solve together, and it usually involved numbers. He taught me to play chess, and after our games, we’d have long chats about my future, where he made it clear he expected great things from me intellectually.
Looking back, I wonder why he never did this with his daughter. My mother adored her father but resented his unspoken assumption that her destiny was only to marry well. True, he taught her to read and play chess, but he also sent her to a school that focused on turning girls into homemakers. It was not unusual for students to be engaged and pregnant by their senior year. My mother managed to persuade her parents to let her attend a more academic institution halfway through high school, but university was still not in the cards, since she was engaged by senior year.
The intellectual discouragement, though, began long before. In elementary school, a teacher told her she wasn’t smart enough to get her high school diploma. I never knew what my grandfather had to say about that, but his later decisions about her academic future must have felt like tacit agreement. And while I believe he encouraged my intellect because he saw my potential, I also wonder if he figured that was my only hope, since unlike his pretty, vivacious, outgoing daughter, I would never succeed as a hostess. Or maybe, hopefully, he had learned something about the potential of women since the 1940s and ’50s.
The good news is that, eventually, both my mother and I reclaimed math.
For her, it was when I was a freshman in college. With an empty nest and a far less active social schedule, she enrolled in community college with an eye on a bachelor’s. A four-year degree, however, required both remedial and college math. Fearful at first, she soon found she didn’t have too much trouble with the material. She even enjoyed statistics. She would go on to earn a master’s of social work at 57, and worked nine years in various hospitals before retiring.
Just as my mother started her career, I went into journalism, a field where math phobia abounds. I spent the next decade avoiding numbers as much as possible. But after leaving a newsroom where algebra left the most hard-bitten reporter quailing, I took advantage of my sudden freelance freedom and enrolled in remedial math at a community college, taking pre-algebra through calculus.
A lot of friends and former colleagues thought I’d lost my mind, but the fact is that, maternal bonds aside, abandoning the subject had always bothered me. And since I’d just spent years asking other people tough questions, it was time to ask myself why I thought I was so bad at something just because it took some effort. I’d never shied from other intellectual challenges, like science or languages. How was this any different? So I did it, and like my mother, I surprised myself by doing well and enjoying my studies.
At 38, anxious again about math and revisiting pre-algebra, I received a math dictionary as a present from my mother.
“I’m really excited that you’re doing this,” she said. Her tone was warm and encouraging.
I suddenly recognized how much her voice sounds like mine, and how we both wear glasses now, and have the same dark brown hair.
I know everyone is going to pitch a fit over blaming mom yet again for something, but I have to say that it sets my teeth on edge when I hear grown-ups, and especially women, complain that they are terrible at math, and especially when they do it in front of their children. You don't need to know calculus to be "good" at math. Stop shit-talking yourself. While you're at it, stand up straighter and eat your veggies, OK?
I'm really careful about this because compared to my husband, I'm bad at math. But I am not bad at math by any other standard - ffs I took AP calculus in high school and all honors math classes. It's not my strength. It's not what comes easily and naturally to me (past a certain level - prior to calculus, math was pretty easy for me - I hated geometry too) but I am not bad at it. I am better at other things, and more interested in other things.
I'm decent at math. I do, however, seem to have a problem with decimal points lately. I could not figure out why I was miscalculating something until it was pointed out to me that I was supposed to use .07 CENTS and not .07 DOLLARS.
My parents and brother are all only okay at math. Both of my grandfathers were good at math. I just prided myself on carrying the math torch for my family. A mom doesn't have to pretend to be awesome at everything in order to encourage her kids. Just know that your kids may excel at things you don't.
I do wonder if being in a girl-dominant class (18 girls to 4 boys) helped. It was just a fluke, but none of us really took "Girls don't do that" as a thing.
ETA: My mom has a chemistry degree, which was pretty crazy for a lady in the 60's, so she was never anything but encouraging.
Post by tacosforlife on Aug 4, 2015 8:58:49 GMT -5
I thought I was bad at math in HS. I wasn't. I consistently got a B to B+ in honors math classes. But I was getting A to A+ in my other classes, and I hung with a very smart, very competitive crowd. So I thought a B, even in an honors class, meant you were a total dumb dumb.
I read elsewhere that this is common for girls - if it doesn't come easily and naturally, we assume we are "bad" at it rather than that we need to keep working hard to build our skills.
Oh, to go back to high school harpy and tell her to stick with it! I learned amazing perserverance skills through my math classes, and I did not fully appreciate it at the time!
I'm really good in math, but I always had teachers that were confident with their math skills.
In my teaching classes we are taught explicitly to never downplay your math abilities as your students easily pick up on it and it can seriously impact their learning. A lot of adults grew up with teachers either not confident or discussed their lack of math skills in the classroom, which has been damaging.
I relate to this. I have "bad at math" baggage from my grandmother (she was a huge part of my childhood and played the "mom" role in many areas for me during my formative years). I believed it through high school and college and made bad decisions about what classes to take (and not take) and what degrees to pursue (and not pursue) because of it. Lo and behold, several years ago, I started doing admin work for a friend's business and she kept giving me more and more of the bookkeeping responsibilities and I am actually REALLY good at math, particularly when dollar signs are involved. I take every opportunity I see my grandma to remind her how amazing I actually am at math (we have a dysfunctional relationship now if you couldn't already tell).
I read elsewhere that this is common for girls - if it doesn't come easily and naturally, we assume we are "bad" at it rather than that we need to keep working hard to build our skills.
Oh, to go back to high school harpy and tell her to stick with it! I learned amazing perserverance skills through my math classes, and I did not fully appreciate it at the time!
This is at the heart of the movement to praise children's efforts, rather than their intelligence. Girls tend to be praised for being smart, while boys tend to be praised for the effort they put into things.
As they grow older, girls tend to give up on things that don't come easily to them, because they think they are supposed to be "smart" and figure things out quickly and easily. When that doesn't happen, they give up rather than try and fail.
Boys, on the other hand, are far more likely to keep trying, even in the face of failure, because it is their effort that has always been praised. They don't assume that any particular skill or knowledge is supposed to come easily to them.
I didn't have a real boyfriend in high school, though (referring to the quote "There were other factors, such as indifferent or incompetent teachers and my growing sense that girls who like math are suspect to boys"). Then I had my choice of them in college once they realized that smart women had a lot of earning potential.
I read elsewhere that this is common for girls - if it doesn't come easily and naturally, we assume we are "bad" at it rather than that we need to keep working hard to build our skills.
Oh, to go back to high school harpy and tell her to stick with it! I learned amazing perserverance skills through my math classes, and I did not fully appreciate it at the time!
This is at the heart of the movement to praise children's efforts, rather than their intelligence. Girls tend to be praised for being smart, while boys tend to be praised for the effort they put into things.
As they grow older, girls tend to give up on things that don't come easily to them, because they think they are supposed to be "smart" and figure things out quickly and easily. When that doesn't happen, they give up rather than try and fail.
Boys, on the other hand, are far more likely to keep trying, even in the face of failure, because it is their effort that has always been praised. They don't assume that any particular skill or knowledge is supposed to come easily to them.
This is something I will need to remember if/when we spawn.
This also raises the issue of an emphasis on grades. I'm not anti-grades by any means. I am not a hippie who thinks children should come home with report cards filled with hearts and flowers. But I do sometimes wonder if a hypercompetitive atmosphere in which students feel like they live and die by their GPAs is the way to go. I wonder if the focus on grades pushed me to what came naturally as opposed to grappling with stuff that was more challenging.
I was so good at algebra and trig. I still get those concepts. But I failed geometry. I'm pretty sure knowing that has given my oldest an out on being "good" at math. She is in danger of not graduating because she keeps failing math - and her teacher just doesn't get it, because she can sit there and do the work. She's just convinced herself she's "bad at math" like me.
I gotta stop saying I am before the other two pick up on it.
Post by Skyesthelimit1212 on Aug 4, 2015 9:52:10 GMT -5
I have a learning disability in math, dyscalculia, so math for me was an excruciating painful learning experience. I pray that my lo inherits her father and uncle's math ability.
DH and I both have very pro-math moms. His mom was a middle school math teacher and my mom graduated at 40 and became an accountant.
DH and I are both good at math. I got discouraged when I enrolled in engineering calc at 7:30am. Also I was hanging out with a bunch of kids who went on to top 10 engineering programs for grad school. I'm not THAT good math.
I feel good at work now because I am often the one to figure out math problems among my very bright coworkers (they mostly have life sciences degrees)
My father is amazing at math. My mom is not. When they first got married, he threw her out of the joint checking account because she couldn't balance it.
I struggle with a lot of math - I failed courses several times. However, I discovered I have a knack for statistics (thank goodness).
So I prefer to say I'm "math challenged." As in, I can run any stat needed for my research, but had to call my dad for help when I was 32 and buying our house because I could NOT figure out the numbers/budget.
I was not terrible at math but I never enjoyed it. It wasn't until college that I had a teacher who explained things in a way that clicked for me.
Unfortunately, I have been looking at GRE practice questions lately and I have clearly forgotten every damn thing I learned in school.
My kids are doing 4th and 3rd grade math, and I always review their work to make sure I understand the concepts so that I can help them when necessary. I am shocked at how much I have to re-learn, simply because I don't use some of this stuff on a regular basis, if at all. As someone who will tell you all day long that I'm quite good at math, it's definitely humbling!
I'm not sure if it's because it just came naturally to me (it seemed like it did).
But I also grew up on a farm, and did a lot of math as part of that. For example, we would pick sweet corn and put 52 ears in a bag to sell. My parents would have me count off the ears by 3s, or sometimes by 4s.
We participated in a farmer's market that was held in a church parking lot (so, no cash registers, no calculators), and I started helping out early on. I had to add the customer's purchases, and count back their change.
So it's hard to say if math came easily because I was "accidentally" practicing all the time, or if it was easy for me to help my parents because math came easily. I'm not sure I'm articulating that distinction well.
Either way, I hope that I can help prepare my kids so that math seems natural to them too.
Post by penguingrrl on Aug 4, 2015 10:38:58 GMT -5
I have major bad at math baggage. I can pinpoint where it came from, and it's not from my mother or from a societal expectation that girls are bad at it. It came from "mad minutes" we did starting in 2nd or 3rd grade. I never got satisfactory scores on that and that left me convinced I couldn't do math.
My oldest started struggling with those (renamed "rocket math" but the same thing) this past year and I saw it impacting her math confidence. As it turns out her actual struggle is handwriting and it's a major struggle. In order to write the answer in rocket math and have it be legible it takes time for her. When her teacher quizzed her orally for rocket math instead of having it written she flew through the answers quickly. And she had great grades in math outside of the rocket math. I finally told her that rocket math doesn't matter in the least and isn't indicative of being good or not at anything. I really don't want her thinking that her inability to write numbers quickly means she's terrible at math because she has a head for math and if it were on a computer and just clicking she would likely be really good really quickly.
Post by EloiseWeenie on Aug 4, 2015 10:50:48 GMT -5
I struggled with math growing up. My brothers were assholes, and would make fun of me because I was really slow at multiplication. I struggled through Pre-Algebra in 5th grade, and even with tutoring had to repeat it in 6th grade. That made me even less confident. I felt like a failure because I was in advanced English and History classes going into middle school, but couldn't place into the higher level Math and Science classes.
I am good at $ and kitchen related maths. I'm purposeful in not claiming "I'm bad at math." I prefer to focus on my strengths, LOL.
I had a 4th or 5th grade teacher who told me that girls are bad at math so it's OK. My mom LIT IT UP and ended up getting me pulled out into an advanced math group. This worked out great for me (I ended up with a math minor in college and work with numbers every day in my career) but I do wonder how many other kids got discouraged and off track from those messages.
Post by Scout'sHonor on Aug 4, 2015 11:00:30 GMT -5
Both my parents claimed to be bad at math, but I suspect they just didn't want to help with my homework. I turned out to pick a career in math, so I guess I did ok... lol
Yeah I thought I was "bad" at math bc I had to work for the A, unlike in my other classes. And my friends took AP calculus but I was "just" in trig. Now I realize I am actually quite good at math. At work, one job is to calculate and hand out tips to employees and everyone makes me do it because no one else knows how. None of these other (college graduates) feel comfortable figuring out 15 percent of a number even with their cell phone calculator. I've decided I'm going to sit them all down and have a workshop.
As much trouble as I have with my parents and their old-fashioned views, I give them credit on this. They always pushed all academics and sports too. Household chores were very gender driven, but academics were not. I sincerely hope that my children are good in math, because I am not a patient person and I know I will have trouble explaining it to them.
My hatred of math began early. In second grade, I didn't understand it and was continually frustrated by math. My parents went to my teacher to discuss it and her response was that as a girl, it didn't matter if I never understood math. Also, I was testing well in class so it was probably just anxiety.
I was moved to a private school where my parents discovered that I did NOT understand math at all. I failed the math portion of the IOWA basics test, coming in around 25%. The class did mad minutes which I loathed as the whole class needed to pass in order to move to the next category. So, everyone was always waiting on me. Most of the class could complete 1.5 mad minutes and I couldn't even get through half of mine. I started to feel really stupid.
My dad started working on math with me every night, which I also hated. By the time I hit 7th grade, I was on the advanced math track and it didn't seem so horrible anymore. I won our school's math bowl which was a huge confidence booster and ever since, I've loved math and work in a field that requires heavy math.
i know my life would have been very different without all the effort my parents put forth. I feel very fortunate that they were willing and able to do so.
I know everyone is going to pitch a fit over blaming mom yet again for something, but I have to say that it sets my teeth on edge when I hear grown-ups, and especially women, complain that they are terrible at math, and especially when they do it in front of their children. You don't need to know calculus to be "good" at math. Stop shit-talking yourself. While you're at it, stand up straighter and eat your veggies, OK? From WaPo:
I also lost my biggest champion that year. My grandfather Freddie, my mother’s father, was a pediatric radiologist who loved to learn. He taught me to read. He always had a puzzle we could solve together, and it usually involved numbers. He taught me to play chess, and after our games, we’d have long chats about my future, where he made it clear he expected great things from me intellectually.
Looking back, I wonder why he never did this with his daughter. My mother adored her father but resented his unspoken assumption that her destiny was only to marry well. True, he taught her to read and play chess, but he also sent her to a school that focused on turning girls into homemakers. It was not unusual for students to be engaged and pregnant by their senior year. My mother managed to persuade her parents to let her attend a more academic institution halfway through high school, but university was still not in the cards, since she was engaged by senior year.
AMEN to the first part of the bolded. I HATE hearing that. Funny anecdote- a colleague of mine has a PhD in mathematics, I was out to dinner with his wife and him one night. When the check came he handed it to his wife to calculate the tip. That began the conversation about how he can't for the life of him calculate a tip in his head. His response was "That's arithmetic, not math. I'm an expert in mathematics, but I'm terrible at arithmetic"
As for the second bolded part- while I'm sure the thoughts of the generation were a large driving force for this- another contributor could be that the grandfather has since retired and had the time to teach the granddaughter all that stuff. I was fortunate to learn to love math and solving puzzles from my retired grandfather.
Lol, do you know my husband?! This is him to a T.
My husband's whole family is awesome at math. MIL works in finance. FIL was a math textbook editor. My husband is a statistician, PhD in applied mathematics. SIL1 is a high school calculus teacher. SIL2 has a PhD in marine biology.
So I'm not BAD at math, but compared to all of them, I'm an idiot. I know not to be self-deprecating about it, though. It's not socially acceptable to say, "Oh, I'm just so bad at reading. Hardly literate!" So it shouldn't be okay to do the same with math. BUT when people find out about my husband's PhD, a lot of time they're like: . Better him than me! And that kind of thing.