NYT: Inside Amazon's Bruising Workplace

[Velar Fricative]

I guess if people want to work in such an environment, that's on them. And I agree that these people likely have other options to pursue if they don't want to work at Amazon. I just can't imagine, at any point in my life, wanting to work in such an environment. What good is all that money if I am working a zillion hours a week, plus expected to work during the lavish vacations I can afford to buy? No thanks. That is why I did not pursue a career in the corporate world.

And as long as Amazon has a revolving door of workers and can manage to hire bright new people to work for them (if only for a couple of years), then there is little reason for them to change their culture.

[tuck]

We see my husband so much more now than we did when he was in grad school.

We're coming up on two years, and dh still loves everything about it.

[ttt]

I would even be willing to look the other way at these terrible practices if they would just "innovate" the goddamn third party sellers and their 5x retail prices away.

[ttt]

Aug 16, 2015 12:20:03 GMT -5 @littlemoxie said:

Aug 16, 2015 11:43:46 GMT -5 jenny1980 said:

It seems like Amazon is always focused on the next, bigger, more amazing thing instead of on their core business and processes. It does sound like most of the effort is directed toward "innovation" rather than just delivering on promises. 

That said, I have been really happy with Amazon whenever they failed to deliver something on time. A couple weeks ago they delivered a pair of sunglasses and fish food a day late and they ended up refunding me but letting me keep the items. 

Amazon is not UPS.  Sure, they are probably their largest account and can exert a lot of power on them, but they are not doing the actual delivery.  It's not 100% in their control.

I've also not noticed a difference in Prime, and if anything have gotten deliveries on Sundays and holidays to keep me to 2 days.  I don't think the "prime getting worse" is universal.

I wouldn't say its necessarily getting worse overall, but I do think it is significantly less consistent than it used to be. Same with the prices - I remember when I used to be able to go o Amazon and be basically guaranteed that their prices were the lowest. Now, I have to do research on everything to make sure I'm not paying $20 for something that actually only retails for $6.

[josieposy]

Aug 16, 2015 14:05:32 GMT -5 1234FIF! said:

What are people ordering from Amazon and so frequently they need this Prime stuff? I order from there so infrequently.

What I do is add stuff to my wishlist at random. Then I periodically check it, delete stuff I later realize I don't really want/need, and then of the stuff I do actually want/need I will buy. So usually it's like Christmas where I'll get a box of full of random stuff. It's actually kind of nice because it keeps my impulse shopping in check a bit.

[summer]

For all of this hoopla, Amazon should have a much better website.

That's me digressing again.

[robot]

I know a few people who work there (currently or past), and this response article is now going around:

www.linkedin.com/pulse/amazonians-response-inside-amazon-wrestling-big-ideas-nick-ciubotariu

[ttt]

Aug 16, 2015 14:36:06 GMT -5 robot said:

I know a few people who work there (currently or past), and this response article is now going around:

www.linkedin.com/pulse/amazonians-response-inside-amazon-wrestling-big-ideas-nick-ciubotariu

So the guy is complaining about how the NYT didn't publish his response in the comments, but he writes 811 words before he even gets to the part about rebutting the article's claims. 

Still trying to get through the rest.  

[dutchgirl678]

I interviewed for a research position in their speech technology group last year. I talked to another guy in that group who used to be a postdoc at our university and he claimed he loved his job. I had 3 phone interviews and they flew me to Seattle for the live interview. It took all day. I gave a presentation about my research and then I had 4 or 5 meetings with people who asked me algorithmic questions and made me solve them with pseudo-code on a whiteboard. I didn't get the job.

Now I am glad I didn't. As a mom of two young kids and being over 40 I don't think this would have been a good fit for me.

[pescalita]

Aug 16, 2015 14:05:32 GMT -5 1234FIF! said:

What are people ordering from Amazon and so frequently they need this Prime stuff? I order from there so infrequently.

I didn't use it a lot before I finally bit the prime bullet, but now I use it all the time for Target-like stuff. The cheapest staple kind of items are usually cost-prohibitive, but for lots of stuff Amazon can deliver before I can make it to Target.

My recent orders are a hat, lotion, shoes, razors, diapers, coffee, skimmies, batteries.

We've had great experience with prime delivery, but I expect it's the metro. We've ordered things at 9pm on a Friday and had it delivered on Sunday. FWIW, after business hours on a Friday I wouldn't expect 2-day delivery until Wednesday.

[Velar Fricative]

Aug 16, 2015 14:36:06 GMT -5 robot said:

I know a few people who work there (currently or past), and this response article is now going around:

www.linkedin.com/pulse/amazonians-response-inside-amazon-wrestling-big-ideas-nick-ciubotariu

Every paragraph was pretty much "I've been here for 18 months and I've never seen this!!" Well first of all, there are plenty of things that people don't see and it doesn't mean they don't exist.

I do hope things are as nice for this guy and others as he says they are there. But there's nothing in the article that tells me everyone else at Amazon has the same experience. It's really all about his experience. And how do we know he's just not trying to further his ambitions with the company by writing this?

I'll acknowledge that the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. But some of the specific thing written in the article do give me pause, but it's a matter of whether they're the result of rogue asshole bosses that Amazon eventually pushes out or a company-condoned shitty culture that involves lack of compassion for someone who gave birth to a stillborn child or who fell ill with cancer.

[Velar Fricative]

For me, Prime delivery works great and it's just nice not to shop outside the house. For most things, I don't need them in 2 days (because if I need it quickly, I will go to the store) but I'm not complaining.

I also started using their cloud for back up my photos, plus we use their streaming service.

[StrawberryBlondie]

We use prime for a lot of the crap we'd normally go to Target for. It's much more convenient than in-person shopping with a toddler.

[Nonny]

It's kind of funny to me that this article comes out and people are acting like it's brand new information, when everyone in the tech industry in Seattle has known forever that Amazon has a horrible reputation with how it treats its employees.

My H and I both interviewed there in moments of desperation, we both got jerked around by the recruiting process, and we both were very glad that nothing came of those interviews because we knew how shitty it would be.

[ttt]

Aug 16, 2015 15:10:59 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Aug 16, 2015 14:36:06 GMT -5 robot said:

I know a few people who work there (currently or past), and this response article is now going around:

www.linkedin.com/pulse/amazonians-response-inside-amazon-wrestling-big-ideas-nick-ciubotariu

Every paragraph was pretty much "I've been here for 18 months and I've never seen this!!" Well first of all, there are plenty of things that people don't see and it doesn't mean they don't exist.

I do hope things are as nice for this guy and others as he says they are there. But there's nothing in the article that tells me everyone else at Amazon has the same experience. It's really all about his experience. And how do we know he's just not trying to further his ambitions with the company by writing this?

I'll acknowledge that the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. But some of the specific thing written in the article do give me pause, but it's a matter of whether they're the result of rogue asshole bosses that Amazon eventually pushes out or a company-condoned shitty culture that involves lack of compassion for someone who gave birth to a stillborn child or who fell ill with cancer.

I especially appreciate a man explaining that there's no sexism.

[Deleted]

Aug 16, 2015 14:05:32 GMT -5 1234FIF! said:

What are people ordering from Amazon and so frequently they need this Prime stuff? I order from there so infrequently.

I rarely buy anything online at all either, so I don't "get it." But my boyfriend literally orders everything from Amazon. He doesn't have a car and travels a lot so he just finds it convenient to use Amazon. So everything thing from groceries to toiletries to office supplies he gets from Amazon. It's insane how many deliveries he gets.

I stick to my old fashioned ways of walking to the store

[elleblue]

Aug 16, 2015 19:10:52 GMT -5 @mrsbecky said:

So if this article is true, why are people okay with shopping from Amazon but not Walmart?

I ask because on these boards a lot of posters refuse to shop at Walmart because of their employment practices, impact on local economies and so on. Is Amazon better because they offer health insurance?


I'm honestly asking. I find it curious that more and more stories are coming out about Amazon but Walmart gets all the hate.

These are fair questions. What I want to know is how many Amazon employees have to collect government assistance to make ends meet. And is Amazon holding meetings to help people fill out their government forms to collect said assistance? I know Walmart does (or has done) both and I find it abominable that we are subsiding their profits by filling the gaps created by their low wages. For me that's one of the most egregious of Walmart's litany of awful business practices. 

Mind you, I'm not at all happy about what I'm hearing about Amazon, the warehouses in particular. 

[StrawberryBlondie]

I have to wonder if this is part of it being a huge company, and with a huge company you're going to have wonderful departments and miserable departments.

[ttt]

Aug 16, 2015 19:10:52 GMT -5 @mrsbecky said:

So if this article is true, why are people okay with shopping from Amazon but not Walmart?

I ask because on these boards a lot of posters refuse to shop at Walmart because of their employment practices, impact on local economies and so on. Is Amazon better because they offer health insurance?


I'm honestly asking. I find it curious that more and more stories are coming out about Amazon but Walmart gets all the hate.

I don't agree with the way Amazon treats its employees but I do feel like people who are making $100k a year likely have some other options and I don't feel like they're exploited in the same way that employees making $14k a year are. 

That said, the concerns about the way warehouse workers are treated are more likely to make me boycott Amazon a la Walmart. 

[karinothing]

Aug 17, 2015 6:34:54 GMT -5 @mrsbecky said:

Aug 16, 2015 23:23:38 GMT -5 ttt said:

I messed up your quote ttt but the warehouse stories are more what I was referring to. Amazon corporate sounds like hell but there are some people who thrive in that sort of environment and like someone upthread said, it doesnt necessarily sound that different from some places in the financial industry (and I'm sure Big Lawyers have similar stories, etc) . It probably just seems so extreme compared to the stories you hear about Google et al. The people who get the jobs at Amazon probably have other options and its not the same type of exploitation that comes with being less educated, less work history, etc.  

But ambulances waiting to take people to the hospital as they collapsed? That sounds like something from the turn of the (20th) century, not present day america.  

My friends dad works in a warehouse in AZ. He seems to really enjoy the work and I know that he had had a lot of opportunity for promotions and bonuses. I know it gets insane around Christmas time, but otherwise it seems like a typical warehouse job and he is happy working there.

That being said I am sure the is a lot of truth to the article. It seems like any big corporate retail place sucks when it comes to employee treatment. I do boycott Walmart but have been doing so so long it is not a hardship or anything. I probably should boycott amazon but I know I won't because it would be hard, and I feel like they are such a staple on my life now between my Kindle and their tv/video programming. I fully admit this is hypocritical

[kirra]

Aug 16, 2015 14:05:32 GMT -5 1234FIF! said:

What are people ordering from Amazon and so frequently they need this Prime stuff? I order from there so infrequently.

With the exception of clothes (because I have to try them on) and usually food (H does most of the grocery shopping) I buy almost everything online, including things like toilet paper and laundry detergent. Quite a bit of it comes from Amazon. Unless I don't have a choice, shopping in person is just too much work. Thanks to crutches I can't carry anything unless it's in a bag, but you can't do that in stores because they think you're shoplifting, and even if they have electric scooters they're slow as hell, I have to get up and down a ton of times, and I get bitchy comments from random people for using one.

I can see how the appeal of everything delivered to your doorstep would appeal to a lot of people.

[zoegirltx]

Very interesting- TFS & good discussion.

I like the anecdotes. It must vary by department/region. I have a friend who is IT & said everybody he knows hates it there & they do very strong recruiting.

[josieposy]

I freely admit that some of my beef with Walmart is personal because I worked for them for 3 years.

[simpsongal]

Aug 16, 2015 10:16:22 GMT -5 madisen said:

Funnily enough, their $5 towards Prime Pantry for foregoing prime shipping has helped me see I really don't need most of the items I order in a 2-day timeframe. I'll be dialing back my amazon spending too.

Is this the new thing?  B/c the credit towards downloads or whatever wasn't appealing to me.

ETA: Also, has Amazon turned a profit?  DH always says they've never turned a profit ??

[LoveTrains]

GAH, just finished reading the rebuttal on LinkedIn. That guy truly does not understand the ways in which sexism can effect women in the workplace.

[moreace01]

4 of my former co-workers work there in Technology. One of whom is a woman in her 60's - she's been there for around 5 years at this point. While I don't really have contact with any of these people any more, I would find it hard to believe any of them would have lasted as long as they have if it was as bad as the original article makes it seem.

That said, I did interview there at one point and can attest that the process was grueling. My work was ripped apart and I spent all day defending it. Overall, it was a rather negative process - to the point where when my friend who had gotten me the interview was walking me out, I point blank said I don't think I'd want to work in a place where I was constantly shot down and all of my co-workers were so negative all the time (also Seattle is really small and I wasn't sure I wanted to live there - but that's beside the point).

I did not know that they did forced ranking of employees at review time. That is a huge negative for me and I don't ever want to work for a company that uses it ever again. It is not a fair system at all in my experience and creates a lot of negativity in the work place.

[pescalita]

Aug 17, 2015 8:04:39 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

Aug 16, 2015 10:16:22 GMT -5 madisen said:

Funnily enough, their $5 towards Prime Pantry for foregoing prime shipping has helped me see I really don't need most of the items I order in a 2-day timeframe. I'll be dialing back my amazon spending too.

Is this the new thing?  B/c the credit towards downloads or whatever wasn't appealing to me.

ETA: Also, has Amazon turned a profit?  DH always says they've never turned a profit ??

They're profitable, but not very.

[pantsparty]

This post reminded me to update my Subscribe-and-Save list. So....

[epphd]

I look at about six Amazon buildings out my window at work, and do battle with Amazonians at food trucks every time I go out for lunch. I agree that these stories have been out there for a while, but the difference between Amazon and WalMart is basically white collar and blue collar: AFAIK compensation at Amazon is not "competitive" - it's extremely high. Another article in the local paper quotes the average salary at $100K at the corporate offices (i.e. among the 24,000 people who work in South Lake Union). Further, some of the perks are totally nuts: yes you will work 80 hour weeks, but your summer party will be headlined my Macklemore. We've had a number of employees leave our organization to go to work for Amazon, and the several people I know working there now love it. It's intense, for sure - and it may not be forever - but they love it. Two are even on the board of our kids' child care center. They may VERY well be exceptions to the norm so I'm not at all saying that I suspect untruths in this article. I do think that Amazon represents a high-paying, high-intensity, admittedly short term growth opportunity for a lot of people.

I contrast that to, say, the academic community where pay is shit, hours are long and bureaucracy is high... and sort of shrug.

[sushi]

I don't have the work ethic to get through that article.