Dear Prudie: Pumping in open-plan office?

[VillainV]

I know there are some other Dear Prudie readers.

Yesterday someone wrote in about a coworker who pumps in an open-plan office around coworkers and sometimes visitors. A lactation room is provided down the hallway. Coworkers are very put off by the noise of the pump. The mom loses productivity by using the lactation room and is comfortable pumping (I'm assuming covered?) at her desk.

What say MMM? Is this a case of needing to be considerate in an open floor plan office, just like not eating tuna or playing music? Should the mom be asked to pump in the provided lactation room and lose productivity? Or should the coworkers just get over it?

[anna7602]

I pumped in an open plan, even though I was technically behind a door. The door was basically to keep me out of view, but none of the walls reached the ceiling.

My co-workers made a few comments about the sound, but what can you do? In this case, though, I would want to know where the lactation room is. Is it in another building, on another floor, etc.? And how often are visitors coming to the office? Are these visits scheduled ahead of time? I can definitely see insisting on the lactation room when there are visitors.

[andthentherewere10]

If my coworkers were truly bothered and distracted by the SOUND and not the IDEA of what I was actually doing then I would make arrangements to go to the lactation room.

[VillainV]

Sept 1, 2015 5:35:55 GMT -5 anna7602 said:

I pumped in an open plan, even though I was technically behind a door. The door was basically to keep me out of view, but none of the walls reached the ceiling.

My co-workers made a few comments about the sound, but what can you do? In this case, though, I would want to know where the lactation room is. Is it in another building, on another floor, etc.? And how often are visitors coming to the office? Are these visits scheduled ahead of time? I can definitely see insisting on the lactation room when there are visitors.

The person just says that the lactation room is "down the hall" so I assume same building/floor. When I was pumping I had to walk "down the hall" to pump for several months (before my office mate moved offices) and it was a huge PITA to stop what I was doing to go pump. Between lugging my stuff down there, setting up, pumping, tearing down/packing up, and getting back to my office, I was away from my desk for about 30 minutes, and I had no access to email or a computer. The room was also in a section of our building where cell phones, tablets, and even kindles were prohibited. It was miserable.

[anna7602]

Sept 1, 2015 5:43:44 GMT -5 VillainV said:

Sept 1, 2015 5:35:55 GMT -5 anna7602 said:

I pumped in an open plan, even though I was technically behind a door. The door was basically to keep me out of view, but none of the walls reached the ceiling.

My co-workers made a few comments about the sound, but what can you do? In this case, though, I would want to know where the lactation room is. Is it in another building, on another floor, etc.? And how often are visitors coming to the office? Are these visits scheduled ahead of time? I can definitely see insisting on the lactation room when there are visitors.

The person just says that the lactation room is "down the hall" so I assume same building/floor. When I was pumping I had to walk "down the hall" to pump for several months (before my office mate moved offices) and it was a huge PITA to stop what I was doing to go pump. Between lugging my stuff down there, setting up, pumping, tearing down/packing up, and getting back to my office, I was away from my desk for about 30 minutes, and I had no access to email or a computer. The room was also in a section of our building where cell phones, tablets, and even kindles were prohibited. It was miserable.

I hadn't thought about the lack of computer/cell phone/etc aspect of it. I've never worked anywhere with a lactation room, so have no idea what they're like.

I still had to lug my pump and supplies to my co-worker's office with a door (I didn't have a door) and then back in the other direction to the office kitchen to put the bottles away, but it wasn't too challenging. Regardless, I stand by what I said above. The noise is what it is and people can get used to it (or maybe my co-workers were just nice). But I can see having a policy about no pumping with visitors in the office. I wasn't allowed to eat lunch at my desk at a former workplace when there were outside visitors.

[Deleted]

I personally would have felt beyond uncomfortable pumping in an open floor plan (e.g., cube farm with or without a door). YMMV.

ETA: So, to actually answer the question.

I can't begin to imagine complaining to my manager about something like this, and I wouldn't engage with other coworkers who had an issue with it.  Even pre-baby, I would have just KOKO if a co-worker did this. To me, it would have been in line with someone tapping a pen or something.  While the sound might have bothered me (in terms of just noise), I would have just done my thing and not worried about it since you know...it doesn't affect me.

Now, if there's a legit reason - person in next cube is on the phone a lot and the person on the phone can hear it? 





   

[VillainV]

Sept 1, 2015 5:42:25 GMT -5 andthentherewere10 said:

If my coworkers were truly bothered and distracted by the SOUND and not the IDEA of what I was actually doing then I would make arrangements to go to the lactation room.

I suspect that it's both the sound and the idea of pumping that bothers the coworkers. My coworkers didn't seem bothered by my pumping at all, as long as it was behind closed doors and they didn't have to be present for the whole operation :-).

[bowies]

I would want her to use the lactation room. I'm pro-BFing but I'm also pro-not being a distraction for others in a professional environment. It's the same principle as not using speaker phone in an open plan. If she had a door and cube walls to muffle the sound or pumped when most people were on their lunch break, I wouldn't mind if she decided to stay put.

I used my building's lactation room for 7ish months - no electronic devices were allowed so if I wanted to keep working I brought some print-outs or something with me. My job manager was supportive so he didn't care what I did in there though. He viewed it as no different than a cigarette break or chitchat time. My work was done and on time.

What was Prudie's answer?

[VillainV]

bowies Prudie said the pumper should excuse herself and go to the lactation room. I think this was based more on being a considerate member of a shared office space (re: noise).

[atarianna]

I worked in an open office environment and couldn't imagine pumping at my desk.

I worked in two locations. One had a shitty pump room only given to me because I needed it. Only one other person had access, but walked in on me several times. It was dirty and I was lucky if there was a chair. The other had a truly dedicated lactation room with a recliner, TV, magazines and supplies. I could have pumped there for years!

[linz]

Sept 1, 2015 6:17:42 GMT -5 @vicmo said:

I'm not in the US so maybe I shouldn't comment, lol. When people have to pump during the day, are they losing that time? Eg working an 8 hour day and pumping for 1 hour = having to stay at work for 9 hours? Because I'd be tempted to pump at my desk while working too if that was the case. Like working through lunch to get home earlier.

But I dunno, I get mega irritated by office noises (people with a nagging cough, obnoxious ringtones, someone with an annoying laugh) so I can see where the coworkers are coming from.

Not for me. I take 2 30 min breaks each day and it's just counted as work time. It doesn't bother me to pump and I have to go to another building. Sometimes I take a quick nap.

[anna7602]

@vicmo, I was salaried, so was always working more hours, evenings, etc anyway. Even before pumping.

But seriously, the thought of going out and getting a quieter pump in the days before insurance covered pumps would not have occurred to me. I had to listen to co-workers' conversations, etc in an open floor plan. There was no illusion of a "quiet" work space there, especially since all of our windows faced a busy avenue. I seriously wanted to tell the people who commented on the "noise" of my pump to eff off.

This may be why I WAH now?

[mrshandy]

I'm all pro BF, but that noise is annoying and I would not want any of my coworkers hearing my boob farts.

As long as it's not a PITA she should just use the room. Not sure what her break/leave situation is, but we have an hour lunch. If it's down the hall, you should be able to pump in the allotted time.

Also if you have any visitors/clients to the office, I think it is just not something you want out and about.

I find pumping (even with a cover) in front of others way more uncomfortable than nursing in front of others.

[boxerdog]

Sept 1, 2015 6:47:38 GMT -5 @starry said:

@vicmo your employer can require you to make up the time. I imagine many hourly people have to if it exceeds their standard break times.

Really?? I didn't know this. If this is the case for the Dear Prudie lady, then her coworkers can get over it. I wouldn't want to stay an hour later each day just to make them happy.

This is why open concept offices suck.

[purplecow0206]

I've pumped on an airplane before (the person next to me didn't even realize what I was doing until after I finished) and I would feel very uncomfortable doing this. When I was pumping, I didn't take a lunch break in order to get my three pumps in without having to work later and would bring reading work with me into the pump room when my work allowed. It wasn't easy, but the partial walls around my cube wouldn't have been comfortable for me to do it at my desk at all.

[redheadk]

I'm sensitive to sounds so this would really bother me if I was her coworker. I have no issues with pumping or hanging out with someone who is pumping but repetitive sounds when I'm trying to focus on something else are very distracting. I also don't like to listen to music while I do anything requiring mental focus.

[thebreakfastclub]

Most people don't pump where I worked, and definitely nobody with a higher level job. The expectation is that you get your job done either way, in whatever time it takes.

My one CW was 7-4 and out the door at 4:01. She was leaving time sensitive work undone to leave. She said she couldn't get her job done by 4pm because of pumping. That excuse didn't fly.

I knew I would have to stay late if I pumped, so I never even ordered one.

[Jalapeñomel]

Sept 1, 2015 7:23:22 GMT -5 anna7602 said:

@vicmo, I was salaried, so was always working more hours, evenings, etc anyway. Even before pumping.

But seriously, the thought of going out and getting a quieter pump in the days before insurance covered pumps would not have occurred to me. I had to listen to co-workers' conversations, etc in an open floor plan. There was no illusion of a "quiet" work space there, especially since all of our windows faced a busy avenue. I seriously wanted to tell the people who commented on the "noise" of my pump to eff off.

This may be why I WAH now?

I just find it really hard to believe that the sound of the pump was actually the reasoning behind wanting her to pump elsewhere. Just say it makes you uncomfortable.

Phones ringing, nails typing on a keyboard, people having conversations, microwaves dinging, people eating, and the noise of the pump is the thing that bothers you? Really?

EDIT: I agree with whomever said the open-floor plan is the problem here, because I actually do think all of those things would be annoying, not just the pumping.

[boxerdog]

Sept 1, 2015 7:40:55 GMT -5 @starry said:

Sept 1, 2015 7:30:24 GMT -5 boxerdog said:

Really?? I didn't know this. If this is the case for the Dear Prudie lady, then her coworkers can get over it. I wouldn't want to stay an hour later each day just to make them happy.

This is why open concept offices suck.

Looks like "reasonable break time" is allowed. Of course only for employers who fit under the law. And I can see when I worked fast food fifteen minutes twice a day was "reasonable" but not enough time to pump.

alphamom.com/your-life/postpartum/workplace-breast-milk-pumping-laws/

Eta: just kidding. It says right in the law you don't have to be compensated for the time

Oh that sucks. I thought the breaks were paid.

[water*drop]

Personally, I wouldn't want to pump in an open floor plan because I'm just not that confident? or something about it. I don't really care if my coworker wants to. I would, however, point out at every possible opportunity that it likely wouldn't be an issue at all if we had better maternity leave policies.

[VillainV]

Sept 1, 2015 7:57:11 GMT -5 @simpledog said:

Jalapeñomel I definitely couldn't pump and talk on the phone so I'm assuming that may also be part of the issue. It's so loud.

My PISA was way too loud to talk on the phone!

[thebreakfastclub]

Sept 1, 2015 8:02:46 GMT -5 @starry said:

Sept 1, 2015 7:45:38 GMT -5 thebreakfastclub said:

Most people don't pump where I worked, and definitely nobody with a higher level job. The expectation is that you get your job done either way, in whatever time it takes.

My one CW was 7-4 and out the door at 4:01. She was leaving time sensitive work undone to leave. She said she couldn't get her job done by 4pm because of pumping. That excuse didn't fly.

I knew I would have to stay late if I pumped, so I never even ordered one.

I feel like this is reality in much of corporate America. You only get so much flexibility. It's hard to pump an hour a day plus work a family friendly schedule and get your shit done.

I am having bad flashbacks of four hour long meetings with only ten minute breaks, sigh.

My work place is 99.9% open concept. Literally only the CEO has an office without a glass door. And only eight of 3000 people have offices at all.

My company was definitely on the harsh side.  But, you can start any time between 7-9 and finish between 4-6.  This person worked out in our gym at lunch every day.  I think she was right to be called out on leaving her stuff in that case.

I also think that when people say that BF is free, it's really not.  The time that you are putting in, at home or work, is so much.  

[t]

I hate the sound of the PISA, so it would drive me nuts and everyone in my department, I'm sure. My team reads reports all day long though, so quiet is essential. My office is almost entirely women/mothers, so I don't think the concept of pumping would bother people as much as the noise would.

I couldn't pump in an open space because I am so uncoordinated and messy. And I wear dresses sometimes, which requires me to disrobe almost completely lol. That wouldn't go over well.

[Deleted]

Sept 1, 2015 7:45:51 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

Sept 1, 2015 7:23:22 GMT -5 anna7602 said:

@vicmo, I was salaried, so was always working more hours, evenings, etc anyway. Even before pumping.

But seriously, the thought of going out and getting a quieter pump in the days before insurance covered pumps would not have occurred to me. I had to listen to co-workers' conversations, etc in an open floor plan. There was no illusion of a "quiet" work space there, especially since all of our windows faced a busy avenue. I seriously wanted to tell the people who commented on the "noise" of my pump to eff off.

This may be why I WAH now?

I just find it really hard to believe that the sound of the pump was actually the reasoning behind wanting her to pump elsewhere. Just say it makes you uncomfortable.

Phones ringing, nails typing on a keyboard, people having conversations, microwaves dinging, people eating, and the noise of the pump is the thing that bothers you? Really?

EDIT: I agree with whomever said the open-floor plan is the problem here, because I actually do think all of those things would be annoying, not just the pumping.

This. I am surprised to hear it makes THAT much noise. Idk. I kind of feel like she should just do it and people will get used to it.

[AmyRI]

I don't really know how to feel about this. Her job is making reasonable accommodation and on one hand I think she should use it. I'd love a lactation room down the hall.

On the other hand, I don't get paid break time and my lactation room is a piece of shit on the other side of campus 0.5mi away. I pump while I drive to/from work and on my lunch break to avoid extending my day any longer. It sucks and I have been wishing there was a way to make pumping in my cubicle feasible, so I guess I'm a hypocrite. Ultimately my cube is too open and lacks the necessary privacy, so I either won't do it or beg to switch offices, but that's unlikely to happen given the union structure here. I'm not comfortable disturbing a whole office of people because of my choice to breastfeed, so I will do what I have to do, even if it's inconvenient. (But I will be fighting for an appropriate lactation room as soon as I hit 12w this pregnancy. I have decided it is my hill to die on and I am now tenured in my position with glowing reviews so they can't/won't fire me this time.)

[rosebud]

My old office was a leased suite and the building had no lactation room. As I'm a fed the solution (put in while I was on ML) was to raise my cube walls 1 foot and install 2 doors I could lock so I could pump at my desk. I figured if I had to listen to Right-wing radio then the ring-wingers could listen to my pumping.

[Deleted]

Sept 1, 2015 6:17:42 GMT -5 @vicmo said:

I'm not in the US so maybe I shouldn't comment, lol. When people have to pump during the day, are they losing that time? Eg working an 8 hour day and pumping for 1 hour = having to stay at work for 9 hours? Because I'd be tempted to pump at my desk while working too if that was the case. Like working through lunch to get home earlier.

But I dunno, I get mega irritated by office noises (people with a nagging cough, obnoxious ringtones, someone with an annoying laugh) so I can see where the coworkers are coming from.

Yes and no. I think employers are supposed to provide an hour of time for the first year, but I work a management salaried job and it's pretty much work until your work is done, so I work a weird schedule of working through half of lunch, staying half hour late and working some at home later on days I work in the office.

[Jalapeñomel]

Sept 1, 2015 8:00:28 GMT -5 @simpledog said:

Sept 1, 2015 7:58:20 GMT -5 VillainV said:

My PISA was way too loud to talk on the phone!

Yes! My intern had an urgent question so I took my phone off do not disturb so she could talk to me. She was like WOW IS THAT THE PUMP?!?!?! Lol.

Eta and it was in a drawer with my sweater on it.

I didn't have any issues with talking on the phone with my pump, so this is obviously clouding my opinion.

I'm just feeling defensive at yet another person complaining about working moms who are just trying to do their best with managing their career and home lives. I blame PMS.

[Deleted]

It's possible the lactation room isn't open at the times she needs to pump--that has happened to me.

In general, pumping is so hard when not at home. I am supportive of women doing it wherever they like.

[hermione]

I thinks it's interesting that the letter to Prudie only addresses noise, people here confirm that pumps are super loud and could disrupt a professional environment; yet there are still responses that state the coworkers are obviously upset at the IDEA of pumping. That's utter speculation based on nothing presented in this specific situation.

I think that this is important because if BFing and pumping are going to become normalized, issues like this one (the noise) are going to have to be addressed for what they are. Maybe that means the coworkers deal with the noise, maybe it means the mother should use the room provided but jumping to the conclusion that people just don't support breast feeding is not always the answer or even helpful.