I agree Bernie might be a long shot - but I am surprised at how many in this thread are like "He can't win". I mean, does anyone remember how Obama couldn't win? He just couldn't. No way. Nope.
BBBLLLAAAAMMMMMMMO! lol
I know they are not the same, but still, I think the "he can't win" thing is no longer on the cards. I think Donald could win too (shudders) because it could happen. People were very tired of politics when Obama got in, they are even more fed up now. I actually think that both Bush and Clinton may suffer from their names. Maybe not enough to do damage, but still.
The the difference, and this is key, is that Obama brought out the black vote, and white vote, and others. Bernie has the white vote. Comparing Bernie to Obama is a mistake.
Yeah, thats true. I don't think they could win the same way, I just don't like writing anyone off simply "because" you know? I agree its unlikely, but so was Obama - thats the only correlation probably lol.
If I were part of an oligarchy who got to appoint the president, then Bernie. But I definitely fell HRC is more electable.
I do think it will be a very, very good thing that Bernie is around, though, for HRC's campaign.
all of this. If I thought he had a chance, I'd gamble on him. But I don't see anyway (barring Trump continuring to be the GOP front runner....) he can win, so I think the nominee for the DNC should be HRC.
I agree Bernie might be a long shot - but I am surprised at how many in this thread are like "He can't win". I mean, does anyone remember how Obama couldn't win? He just couldn't. No way. Nope.
BBBLLLAAAAMMMMMMMO! lol
I know they are not the same, but still, I think the "he can't win" thing is no longer on the cards. I think Donald could win too (shudders) because it could happen. People were very tired of politics when Obama got in, they are even more fed up now. I actually think that both Bush and Clinton may suffer from their names. Maybe not enough to do damage, but still.
Now, the latest Quinnipiac poll showed that the only matchup that would result in a republican victory at this point would be Sanders/Rubio. But still.
I am glad Bernie is around to push Clinton's policy proposals to the left. I think he was the only one to mount a legit challenge this year because he's not a real Democrat and not beholden to the party, really.
I think a hard fought primary, like in 2008, is actually better for the candidate who makes it to the general election. However, with most candidates in the ring, or who are considering throwing their hat in, I think the reasoning is to see if there is legitimately anyone else at all besides Clinton. :/
Thankfully, I do think she has enough support to win.
The best thing about it though, for me anyway, is I am absolutely fine with either. I would like to see Clinton get in - she can deal with the idiots and will get stuff done. Plus I would like to see a woman president - even though I am a white man, I am also sick of white men in charge. I just like Bernie's polices and trust him more than Clinton. But either way, its a win win
Post by iammalcolmx on Sept 2, 2015 23:49:33 GMT -5
Everyone already liked Obama, folks just thought he couldn't win. You can't say the same about Bernie. Clinton will do her thing, INCLUDING having Bill, Barack, and Michelle, campaign for her. This will bring out the same people, who waited for hours, to vote when after the race was called for Obama. You can bet your ass Clinton and Obama have an "agreement".
Post by pistolshrimp on Sept 3, 2015 12:14:47 GMT -5
I am not a Democrat and don't believe I have ever voted for a Democratic candidate but if I had to I would probably vote for Sanders as I feel I more closely align with him on issues important to me than I do Clinton.
I am not a Democrat and don't believe I have ever voted for a Democratic candidate but if I had to I would probably vote for Sanders as I feel I more closely align with him on issues important to me than I do Clinton.
Can you elaborate? Do you normally vote Republican or some other party? What issues do you more closely align with him on?
Genuinely non-snarky question because pretty much everybody I know who is a Sanders supporter is also a die-hard far left Democrat.
I am not a Democrat and don't believe I have ever voted for a Democratic candidate but if I had to I would probably vote for Sanders as I feel I more closely align with him on issues important to me than I do Clinton.
Can you elaborate? Do you normally vote Republican or some other party? What issues do you more closely align with him on?
Genuinely non-snarky question because pretty much everybody I know who is a Sanders supporter is also a die-hard far left Democrat.
BTW, nice avatar.
Not ignoring but on my phone and about to go into a meeting. Will be back to respond
Whatever your personal reason, y'all gotta quit reasoning with policy when talking about how you think the general population will vote. You guys are forgetting that policy doesn't come into play for many, many Americans when voting for pres. A lot of people just want someone personable and that hadn't rubbed them the wrong way in the past. Hillary has so much baggage, that many people on the fence in a primary and the actual election, won't be able to see past her history and her baggage. I think is a huge reason Obama did well, he didn't have a ton of baggage at the national level to remind people of.
Whatever your personal reason, y'all gotta quit reasoning with policy when talking about how you think the general population will vote. You guys are forgetting that policy doesn't come into play for many, many Americans when voting for pres. A lot of people just want someone personable and that hadn't rubbed them the wrong way in the past. Hillary has so much baggage, that many people on the fence in a primary and the actual election, won't be able to see past her history and her baggage. I think is a huge reason Obama did well, he didn't have a ton of baggage at the national level to remind people of.
Where are you coming up with this idea that the majority of voters don't vote on policy but on personality? I think this is vastly untrue.
Whatever your personal reason, y'all gotta quit reasoning with policy when talking about how you think the general population will vote. You guys are forgetting that policy doesn't come into play for many, many Americans when voting for pres. A lot of people just want someone personable and that hadn't rubbed them the wrong way in the past. Hillary has so much baggage, that many people on the fence in a primary and the actual election, won't be able to see past her history and her baggage. I think is a huge reason Obama did well, he didn't have a ton of baggage at the national level to remind people of.
Without a doubt she brings along a lot of baggage, but it's legitimately not enough to sink her in the general election. Most of the vitriol towards her is coming from die-hard Republicans who wouldn't be caught dead voting for a Clinton, ever. Yes, there are probably some Dems or left-leaning voters who are not a fan of voting for her, but they will either hold their nose, or not vote, or vote third party.
Polls show there are basically very few fence-sitters who would vote Dem UNLESS it was HRC, at which point they will go GOP. It's just not common. HRC, so far, will win in every head-to-head poll against the main GOP candidates.
She also brings along black and latino voters far more than any other candidate, on either side, which is make-it-or-break-it in this (and every future) election.
Everyone already liked Obama, folks just thought he couldn't win. You can't say the same about Bernie. Clinton will do her thing, INCLUDING having Bill, Barack, and Michelle, campaign for her. This will bring out the same people, who waited for hours, to vote when after the race was called for Obama. You can bet your ass Clinton and Obama have an "agreement".
Do you really think people who waited hours to vote after the vote were called would be as enthusiastic about Clinton? Barack being on her side is not the same as voting for Barack himself.
Yes, the situation I am speaking of happened during the second election. They stood there to make sure their vote was counted just in-case of shenanigans. The election is next year, that's plenty of time for the republicans to scare people shitless enough to do the same.
Whatever your personal reason, y'all gotta quit reasoning with policy when talking about how you think the general population will vote. You guys are forgetting that policy doesn't come into play for many, many Americans when voting for pres. A lot of people just want someone personable and that hadn't rubbed them the wrong way in the past. Hillary has so much baggage, that many people on the fence in a primary and the actual election, won't be able to see past her history and her baggage. I think is a huge reason Obama did well, he didn't have a ton of baggage at the national level to remind people of.
Where are you coming up with this idea that the majority of voters don't vote on policy but on personality? I think this is vastly untrue.
Post by oscarnerdjulief on Sept 3, 2015 15:45:00 GMT -5
I'd pick Sanders over Hillary. She is corrupt and very unlikable, not to mention entitled and in a bubble even more than the other politicians. She is rapacious, acquisitive, and materialistic while trying to seem like she's not.
I do not think Sanders' policies could be implemented. People don't want taxes raised to pay for spoiled brat milennials to get drunk and laid at college. (referencing free public tuition, which to me is enraging and unfeasible)
If he implemented universal health care, it would be totally effed up and scrapped just like the Vermont plan had to be. It would've bankrupted local businesses to the tune of 2.59 billion dollars. Shumlin almost got beat by a nobody because of it. Heck, he was freaking SELECTED by the assembly because he didn't get a majority, and that election wasn't on anybody's radar screen as even close to a toss-up.
I do not think Sanders' policies could be implemented. People don't want taxes raised to pay for spoiled brat milennials to get drunk and laid at college. (referencing free public tuition, which to me is enraging and unfeasible)
Or 30-something's that want a career change and can't afford $60k+ in school loans to become a teacher. But go ahead and pigeon hole all college students, ok.