I think my cynicism about 9/11 memorials stems from the weird narcissism that shows up every year. So often it's not really about the people who lost their lives, but instead couched in this, "Gee, how has this affected ME?" kind of way that seems counterproductive. While I think some introspection is normal, I feel as if it's becoming less about the tragedy itself and more about an opportunity for people to publicly keen; to say nothing of the weird, cloaked racism in some of the tributes (I'm looking at you, Toby fucking Keith).
Agreed. My feed is full of "I'll never forget where I was...." (Spoiler alert: none were in NYC or DC). I get that people want to share, but must we do it every.single.year?
Post by rugbywife on Sept 11, 2015 10:43:58 GMT -5
I think it is ironic to demand compassion for one's own situation, while simultaneously denying compassion to others (ie: 911 vs Syrian refugees).
I won't for a minute presume to know what any of this feels like for an American, in particular NYers (and people in PA too). My home has never been under attack, I have never feared for my safety or that of my loved ones, in that way. I can show compassion but I won't really ever get it, and for that I consider myself lucky. So I try to understand that everyone has to process their feelings about this every year, in different ways. But I can't with people who attribute it all to one who culture/religion. It isn't healthy and it doesn't help anyone, just keeps the cycle of hate going.
You know, if the people on Facebook where posting thoughtful articles that resonated with them; making a reference to an actual life that was lost that day, someone they knew or admired or had read about; or sharing a touching photo, one that is personally meaningful for reasons other than "it's the American flag!"; or any other commentary that actually reflected that the poster truly did not forget, that would be one thing.
But if all you do is post that same damn jpeg file of the twin towers and say "never forget," or post "OMG I will never forget hearing the news on TV. So sad!" or something equally lazy and trite, I will judge you. Because that kind of passive engagement suggests you are more interested in looking like a sensitive person than actually being one. If that's what someone does to remember 9/11, then they need to do a lot more thinking about what the lessons of it really are.
You remember and honor the day by reflecting, not by saying you are remembering it. 95% of Facebook posts fall under the latter category, and the trivialization of it is what makes this day the worst day to be a Facebook user.
On the other hand I'm annoyed by this converation every year: "you weren't in NYC or DC, you didn't lose a loved one, you don't have a right to have feelings about 9/11." Wrong. 9/11 was both a personal tragedy for many and a national tragedy for the rest. Suggesting that some people don't have the right to their feelings minimizes what 9/11 was for the nation. We don't tell older Americans that their feelings about JFK are less because JFK wasn't their dad or they weren't there that day in Dallas. So I don't know why we do this with 9/11. Everyone was affected. Everyone continues to live with the ramifications. Some people were affected more acutely and personally. But everyone can grieve.* And someday, maybe not in our lifetime, this will all become a very distant, rarely mentioned blip in American history. As all tragedies eventually become.
*the ways in which some people choose to grieve is where I roll my eyes, not that they are grieving at all.
I don't mean this to be snarky, but how else can people acknowledge that they are memorializing (not sure if that's a word...) this day?
If we put it on a smaller scale, if it were a death anniversary of a friend's loved one , it would be appropriate to say "I'm sorry for your loss, thinking about you in this hard time," or something to that effect.
What can one say to potentially many people on their feed who were personally affected? What about people who were just touched by it in some way?
I don't know. I feel like people do need a way to grieve and acknowledge other peoples' grief.
But at the same time, you would probably acknowledge that to that person personally, right? You wouldn't blast it out to all your FB feed.
I don't think there's anything wrong with acknowledging the day and the people who were affected by it (and please don't forget the first responders who ended up with lung cancer and other terrible diseases as a result of working clean-up shifts!). It's the AMERICA YAH! stuff that bothers me so much. Save that for the 4th of July.
It's hard with the personal vs national tragedy, but being from NY and having watched it happen through the window of my high school, it is most of my circle of friends. It is most people I know. It's everyone I grew up with. Just a different perspective, but when I see it, I know that it is posted to people like that.
I never leave out first responders and get frustrated that only PD/FD get acknowledged. My mom and a number of family members worked for private ambulance companies and all of them working were called in and they lost a number of friends. Then the aftermath that was physical, and extremely emotional... I don't see the harm in acknowledging anyone who was affected, even if you don't know them personally.
Post by lurkingdobalina on Sept 11, 2015 11:02:10 GMT -5
Every year I feel the anxiety and fear creep up on me. 9/11 made me old. So many are gone. This day makes me miss my husband and Mom so much-they were with me, feeding people, calming people, keeping me alive. (They didn't pass on 9/11, but they were both with me that day)
I miss my Mommy. And M. G*d I miss him. He'd hold me and make the stretching pain in my chest that happens this day quiet down for a minute. Mom would just feed me and pat my cheek. The two bandaids for my soul who anchored me in the world this horrible day are gone and it's so, so hard to manage.
Post by litebright on Sept 11, 2015 11:50:15 GMT -5
I'm uncomfortable with the train of thought that you're only entitled to post/share or talk about where you were if you were in NYC, D.C. or personally grieving someone who died. That talking about individual experiences of that day is co-opting it unless you were there.
We don't say that about remembering, say, the Challenger explosion (when many of us were kids and definitely not directly involved). I don't think our parents/grandparents say that about the Kennedy assassination, or the assassination of MLK. Or Pearl Harbor. Yes, I think you have to recognize that for most of us, our experiences on 9/11 are very far removed from the shattering personal tragedies, and be respectful and careful not to equate them -- but to imply that unless you were in NYC or D.C. (or what, unless you were in Manhattan? Or near the Pentagon? Or in Shanksville?) then you didn't really 'experience' 9/11, I think, kind of diminishes the national and even international impact of that day. You didn't have to be in those places to be terrified or to have your life impacted in some admittedly smaller way, and have that stick with you. Hearing or reading or sharing those 'where were you' stories paints a fuller picture of the day, not a lesser one, IMO. I'm not saying I want to read a post on it every year, but I don't think it's disrespectful if it comes up.
When a national tragedy happens during our lifetime that becomes one of the moments 'everyone' remembers, our experiences are a piece of that day. They are what we remember, what we pass on to our kids, what we share with each other as part of being human and yes, I do think it's part of memorializing and remembering. We remember events by remembering what they meant to US personally, not what they meant to other people. Most of us didn't know anyone personally who died that day, so we can't exactly memorialize or grieve an individual and it would be disingenuous to do so. We have to leave that to their loved ones, and listen, and hopefully offer support in some form, because I think there is a very human desire to acknowledge the loss even if it wasn't ours personally.
I think we can recall our own personal details of that day without taking away from the sheer, terrible scale of the event, and I don't think it co-opts or "makes it all about yourself" to take the time listen to/read about other people's remembrances of that day and share your own.
My thoughts today are influenced by the absolute rage I have over Huckabee and Kim Davis and the blatant, willful stupidity I have seen everywhere for the past two weeks, so I apologize in advance for their inappropriateness.
Next year for 9/11, I'd like for everyone who is posting never forget to have to take a civics test to determine if they really know what we shouldn't be forgetting and what actually makes this country great. Because honestly, the people I know most likely to be all holier than thou and never forget and god bless america!!! are the people who lack a basic understanding of how things actually work and I'm tired of them co-opting my country and acting like they are the only ones who belong here and love it.
Post by sugarglider on Sept 11, 2015 12:20:36 GMT -5
I spent the 1st through 8th anniversaries of 9/11 in New York. I worked in a building that was the named target of a foiled terror attack (likely because it was named after the other company I worked for, which is headquartered in an entirely different neighborhood...stupid terrorists).
There's stuff on social media, but nobody is talking about it here IRL. Is that normal? I noticed it last year as well.
My office is in the skyscraper closest to military air space, and my window faces it. So I frequently see planes fly past my window. I'm not an anxious person, so I'm fine, but it still feels odd. Doesn't help that I saw Cory Lidle's plane crash from my (boss's) office window in NY, but it just is interesting that not everyone seems to be aware that planes can fly into buildings.
I'm uncomfortable with the train of thought that you're only entitled to post/share or talk about where you were if you were in NYC, D.C. or personally grieving someone who died. That talking about individual experiences of that day is co-opting it unless you were there.
We don't say that about remembering, say, the Challenger explosion (when many of us were kids and definitely not directly involved). I don't think our parents/grandparents say that about the Kennedy assassination, or the assassination of MLK. Or Pearl Harbor. Yes, I think you have to recognize that for most of us, our experiences on 9/11 are very far removed from the shattering personal tragedies, and be respectful and careful not to equate them -- but to imply that unless you were in NYC or D.C. (or what, unless you were in Manhattan? Or near the Pentagon? Or in Shanksville?) then you didn't really 'experience' 9/11, I think, kind of diminishes the national and even international impact of that day. You didn't have to be in those places to be terrified or to have your life impacted in some admittedly smaller way, and have that stick with you. Hearing or reading or sharing those 'where were you' stories paints a fuller picture of the day, not a lesser one, IMO. I'm not saying I want to read a post on it every year, but I don't think it's disrespectful if it comes up.
When a national tragedy happens during our lifetime that becomes one of the moments 'everyone' remembers, our experiences are a piece of that day. They are what we remember, what we pass on to our kids, what we share with each other as part of being human and yes, I do think it's part of memorializing and remembering. We remember events by remembering what they meant to US personally, not what they meant to other people. Most of us didn't know anyone personally who died that day, so we can't exactly memorialize or grieve an individual and it would be disingenuous to do so. We have to leave that to their loved ones, and listen, and hopefully offer support in some form, because I think there is a very human desire to acknowledge the loss even if it wasn't ours personally.
I think we can recall our own personal details of that day without taking away from the sheer, terrible scale of the event, and I don't think it co-opts or "makes it all about yourself" to take the time listen to/read about other people's remembrances of that day and share your own.
We don't/didn't say that about those events because they occurred prior to social media, which appears to have prompted some bizarre, supremely narcissistic "LOOK AT ME!! LOOK AT ALL THE FEELS I FEEL!!!!!11!!" brand of "reflection."
Heh. I can't tell if Blair hates Timehop altogether or just people who are doing it wrong. I like Timehop posts but the ones she featured are definitely people doing it wrong.
Post by laurenpetro on Sept 11, 2015 15:27:20 GMT -5
did anyone listen to The Takeaway this morning? john hockenberry had a very introspective monolouge at the start that i found very interesting. i was uncomfortable about it but i think that's because i related to so much of it and i'm disappointed in us as a country and all we've squandered in the last 14 years.
John Hockenberry: Why I'm done with the 9/11 ritual
I don't look at the calendar anymore this time of year. I dread this day. But not because of anything that might happen. It’s the ritual of 9/11 that I am through with.
I was actually done with the whole 9/11 thing sometime between the famous and politically disastrous "Mission Accomplished" moment from George W. Bush after the Iraq invasion, and the empty announcement by Barack Obama that this feeble terrorist mastermind, Osama bin Laden, had been killed by Navy SEALS in Pakistan.
I'm done with the whole heroes thing. Aren't we over this? There’s the American tragedy story and the talk of America as the preeminent victim of terrorism—America isn't even close to being the most victimized nation by terrorism. If anything, we are more of a victim of our own domestic terrorism than from any foreign enemies, even though it’s easy and convenient to fear them more than kids with guns who wander into churches to kill.
I cannot deny people's grief who lost loved ones that day. The people who were in the towers—I cannot deny the tragedy of those who couldn't make it out.
But I think the 9/11-ization of American life has been a kind of poison for all of us. We had our moment when the whole world was with us after 9/11, and we squandered it.
We spent trillions on two wars that turned a battlefield into a killing field for ISIS and gave us a refugee tidal wave from Syria and Iraq. And another battlefield in Afghanistan was turned into a fragile puppet government that rules over the biggest opium crops in the history of the world. Some of that Afghan heroin finds its way into our cities where it kills and destroys lives much more easily than flying planes into towers.
I'm just done with 9/11. If you don't agree, or if you think I'm being disrespectful, I'm sorry, and I don't begrudge other's feelings about this. But I can't help feeling a little cheated by the whole thing.
I can't get over this remark George W. Bush made back in 2003, trying to explain how 9/11 had changed America:
“It was very difficult to link a terrorist network and Saddam Hussein to American soil. As a matter of fact, it very difficult to link any attack on the American soil because, prior to September 11th, we were confident that two oceans could protect us from harm.”
We spend hundreds of billions of dollars on defense and it was the oceans that were protecting us? That was it? That was why no fancy fighter jets defended our airspace on September 11th? We bought the F16s for show, or to bomb and strafe other people?
The oceans were for us. Great plan.
One of my teenage daughters came to me last night. She was worried that I, as a somewhat public person, might get in trouble if she posted this statement on Facebook:
“I grieve for the thousands of innocents who died on 9/11, if I can also grieve for the hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians who died in Iraq after 2003."
I paused.
“Don't worry about me,” I said. “If that's your experience and how you feel, go for it.”
By the way, her first memory as a child on her first day of preschool was seeing a plane hit the towers and asking her mother who saw nothing, “Why would a plane do that?”
Now 14 years later, we are still working on that question from an innocent little girl.
On the other hand I'm annoyed by this converation every year: "you weren't in NYC or DC, you didn't lose a loved one, you don't have a right to have feelings about 9/11." Wrong. 9/11 was both a personal tragedy for many and a national tragedy for the rest. Suggesting that some people don't have the right to their feelings minimizes what 9/11 was for the nation. We don't tell older Americans that their feelings about JFK are less because JFK wasn't their dad or they weren't there that day in Dallas. So I don't know why we do this with 9/11. Everyone was affected. Everyone continues to live with the ramifications. Some people were affected more acutely and personally. But everyone can grieve.* And someday, maybe not in our lifetime, this will all become a very distant, rarely mentioned blip in American history. As all tragedies eventually become.
*the ways in which some people choose to grieve is where I roll my eyes, not that they are grieving at all.
Thank you for putting this into words for me. I still get anxious when I think about 9/11, I was living in DC, but certainly didn't lose a loved one to the tragedy. I really dislike listening to the "you are not allowed to feel a certain way" when it comes to 9/11 events. I get anxious when I think about 9/11, not necessarily upset or sad, but I do remember the very real sense of fear. That undercurrent of anxiety tends to come up when I think about what happened, and having people harping on how unless you were in NY and lost someone you are just a tragedy whore, makes me feel guilty about something that I don't have a lot of control over, which honestly just adds to the general feeling of anxiety about the day. I don't post about it on social media, this is really the only place I've ever really discussed it except for H and a few very close friends, but there is still a strong emotional undercurrent for me. Mostly I just avoid it, I don't like reading accounts of what happened or watching the news clips from that day. While I'm not grieving over the events of that day, I don't want my feelings about what happened minimized to nothingness either.
I don't know if it's b/c I don't suffer fools or the fact that I have so many military friends on FB, but I only have 1 bingo square, and it's the least offensive.
I am having fun watching a former military member post and post and post about how stupid the truthers are.
Post by Velar Fricative on Sept 11, 2015 17:10:59 GMT -5
I agree with many of the points here but I have to say that I resent others outside NYC or DC co-opting the tragedy when I think about the lack of governmental support for ill first responders. Stupid politicians talk about 9/11 and then deny the people who helped that day the healthcare they so desperately needed, or delayed passage of the bills needed to contribute more money to their healthcare for bullshit political reasons. THAT pisses me the fuck off. Of course, that could just be the politicians themselves but I'm sure they were supported by a lot of people because just say no to government spending!
And this is why I'm so so pissed off at Anthony Weiner. He was so impassioned about this issue and then Carlos Danger had to fuck things up.
I don't know if it's b/c I don't suffer fools or the fact that I have so many military friends on FB, but I only have 1 bingo square, and it's the least offensive.
I am having fun watching a former military member post and post and post about how stupid the truthers are.
On the other hand I'm annoyed by this converation every year: "you weren't in NYC or DC, you didn't lose a loved one, you don't have a right to have feelings about 9/11." Wrong. 9/11 was both a personal tragedy for many and a national tragedy for the rest. Suggesting that some people don't have the right to their feelings minimizes what 9/11 was for the nation. We don't tell older Americans that their feelings about JFK are less because JFK wasn't their dad or they weren't there that day in Dallas. So I don't know why we do this with 9/11. Everyone was affected. Everyone continues to live with the ramifications. Some people were affected more acutely and personally. But everyone can grieve.* And someday, maybe not in our lifetime, this will all become a very distant, rarely mentioned blip in American history. As all tragedies eventually become.
*the ways in which some people choose to grieve is where I roll my eyes, not that they are grieving at all.
Thank you for putting this into words for me. I still get anxious when I think about 9/11, I was living in DC, but certainly didn't lose a loved one to the tragedy. I really dislike listening to the "you are not allowed to feel a certain way" when it comes to 9/11 events. I get anxious when I think about 9/11, not necessarily upset or sad, but I do remember the very real sense of fear. That undercurrent of anxiety tends to come up when I think about what happened, and having people harping on how unless you were in NY and lost someone you are just a tragedy whore, makes me feel guilty about something that I don't have a lot of control over, which honestly just adds to the general feeling of anxiety about the day. I don't post about it on social media, this is really the only place I've ever really discussed it except for H and a few very close friends, but there is still a strong emotional undercurrent for me. Mostly I just avoid it, I don't like reading accounts of what happened or watching the news clips from that day. While I'm not grieving over the events of that day, I don't want my feelings about what happened minimized to nothingness either.
Thank you both for putting into words what I've felt all day. I just don't know how I'm supposed to feel about this day. That day for me kicked off a ridiculously crazy year, from the anxiety of not knowing when and how I was going to get home via plane, to traveling via plane every single week post 9/11 for the next 8 months, to my company collapsing under Enron scandal. So I just reflect on what I have, those people that woke up and went to work like me for the last time that day. I usually just go for a really long run and just think and remember how lucky I am to be here (not in those organized runs though). I dress my kids in RWB because I don't know how else to teach them. No FB posts.. That's my 9/11. ETA- meant to say this day to me is never "yay America" like July 4th is but I too don't want it to be nothing.
Post by Black Lavender on Sept 11, 2015 19:06:48 GMT -5
Luckily I haven't had too many self-serving posts today, I think the best one I saw linked the red bandana story with a note saying "I pray that my kids have this much courage one day".
What I don't need to see, above all, are visual reminders. I don't know how the jumping man, planes exploding into the buildings, or the buildings falling will serve to help anyone heal.
A friend who now lives and works in NYC posted this on her FB this morning: "When I first moved to NY, I was talking to a New Yorker about 9/11 and she said, "9/11 happened to ALL of America but it's is different for us here because we had friends and family and neighbors who left for work that morning and never came back." "
I think that's a pretty decent summation of the situation, acknowledging it affected the country as a whole, but the NY area much more personally.
I also had a (now unfriended) friend tell me that ALL Iraqis train their kids to be terrorists. So that was my special moment for the day. Her husband is a cop, you would think she would be much more sensitive to generalizations than others.
I keep typing and deleting because everything keeps sounding angry and I'm sad more than anything. It wasn't just New York or New Yorkers who lost that day. People from other parts of the country boarded those four planes, there were first responders in both DC and Pennsylvania, people who worked in the Pentagon, not to mention the loved ones of all of those people who were directly affected. I realize the destruction of the Twin Towers cost many people their lives, not just on that day but also later, and that left a very physical hole that serves as a constant reminder for those whose lives are divided into before and after, but it isn't New York's loss alone. It's extra painful to not only be confronted with these memories that rip open wounds year after year but simultaneously ignore the other lives lost and impacted that day.
I wish more than anything that I could forget and not have reminders yearly that a personal tragedy is also a public one but somehow it's made even worse when people neglect to mention the other people involved.
I also always think about the victims of the Oklahoma City bombing and how they must feel about this "never forget 9/11" stuff when everyone has basically forgotten that a day care center full of babies was bombed by terrorists.
I agree. I am thinking it was because it was done by non-white people (think Pearl Harbor).
It's a pretty emotional day for me both because of where I was at the time and because I lost two friends (highs school and college) in the WTC that day. I'm also frequently hit with "holy shit, that should have been me" on this day - I turned down a job that would have put me in the WTC on 9/11.
And to add insult to injury, my FIL, who was amazing in every way, passed away on 9/11 3 years ago. This day is full of suck.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”