Official says God blesses raped women w/ pregnancy

[Deleted]

Aug 22, 2012 6:23:01 GMT -5 aw said:

Aug 22, 2012 0:12:14 GMT -5 screamingeagle said:

I'm sort of wondering why you thought this was the best place to put this.

I'm sorry. Did I miss the other thread in which a female politician expressed her pro-life views in a way that made people uncomfortable? I think it's the perfect place to put it.

ETA - While I don't agree with her that every baby is a blessing TO the woman who is carrying it, I am of the opinion that all life is precious and sacred.

Im glad that you are a vegan!

[Deleted]

It is really hard to take the concept of "god" seriously when people claim that this is the work of god.

A loving god wouldn't make a rape victim suffer through a pregnancy.

[Deleted]

Aug 22, 2012 7:26:03 GMT -5 @septimus said:

It is really hard to take the concept of "god" seriously when people claim that this is the work of god.

A loving god wouldn't make a rape victim suffer through a pregnancy.

Of course he would. The same god turned a woman to salt for just looking at something, and was fine with rape and murder as long as it was his absolute fave tribe all up in that shit.

[2vermont]

Aug 22, 2012 6:23:01 GMT -5 aw said:

In a thread yesterday people were talking about inconsistency in the pro-life movement and about how they don't understand how someone could view abortion is murder and then allow it in some circumstances, like rape and incest. So, then we have a politician speaking out about how she believes all life is a blessing, regardless of the circumstances in which it was conceived and people get upset. To me it seems like pro-lifers can't really win. If they are consistent with their views people are upset with them. If they are inconsistent with their views people are upset with them. What's a pro-lifer to do?

Obviously, STFU ;-)

I recognize that a woman often does not view a baby as a welcome blessing, whether it's the product of rape or not. Whether or not God can use the bad things in our lives as blessings is an entirely different idea than believing He intended for the bad things to happen.

Ding, ding, ding. I'm going to guess that the bolded is exactly what this woman meant.

[2vermont]

Aug 22, 2012 8:52:21 GMT -5 nuggetbrain said:

Aug 22, 2012 7:30:33 GMT -5 2vermont said:

Obviously, STFU ;-)



Ding, ding, ding. I'm going to guess that the bolded is exactly what this woman meant.

I can assure you, regardless of what she meant, if you told a woman who had been raped that she should keep her baby because it's a blessing from God you would rightly get punched in the fucking face.

I actually do understand where you are coming from....clearly it's not a discussion I would take lightly or flippantly if I were put in a position to speak to such a lady.

[daringmiss]

Here is something that most people forget in all of this:

If a federal "personhood" amendment goes through, the "morning after pill" would not be permitted. If sexual contact occurs (consensual or not) and an egg is fertilized, then the woman can not take the "morning after pill" or Plan B because that would prevent the fertilized egg from implanting, thereby aborting the zygote. Therefore, women who go to the ER to report a rape could not be given the morning after pill, resulting in many more pregnancies from rape.

"Personhood" amendments and the anti-abortion movement is aiming at a lot more than abolishing abortion. The aim is to prevent most family planning methods from being available, even to married couples.

[gretchenindisguise]

Aug 22, 2012 6:52:18 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

Aug 21, 2012 22:15:28 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

Ok, I'm tired and maybe didn't read well, but don't a lot of pro-lifers agree with this? Every baby/life is a blessing, that's why they shouldn't be aborted.

Maybe it was the town I grew up in, but I thought this was a fairly common belief.

I think the belief that all babies are blessings is a common belief among religious believers.

However, the way the politician phrased her comment -- that it was God's will that this woman be raped in order to "bless her" with a child -- is what has people all "WTF?!?"

That's not what she said. ""If God has chosen to bless this person (The Rape Victim) with a life, you don’t kill it."

I'm actually on your side on this, I'm just surprised the outlash against her saying that a baby is a blessing, you don't kill it, when I think that's a fairly commonly held belief.

[daringmiss]

And I am going to carry all of this to its inevitable conclusion:

Woman is violently raped by a stranger. Woman becomes pregnant as a result of the rape because no contraception is permitted under the new law.

Rapist is caught and imprisoned. The fact of her pregnancy is disclosed when she testifies at trial.

Woman wants to put child up for adoption, because she feels that raising a child conceived in such a traumatizing way is too much stress for her. Rapist asserts his parental rights and blocks the adoption, so the victim is forced to raise the child.

Victim goes to court to have paternal right revoked based on the horrifying crime of rape, but is told that the rapist has a right to see his offspring. Since the crime of violence was perpetrated against her and not the child, there are no grounds to deny parental rights.

Rapist insists on visitation with his child, so the child must be brought to the prison to see his/her father. Perhaps the rape victim must even be required to do the transportation, so as not to be thought in contempt of the custody agreement.

Rapist is released from prison and continues to exercise visitation rights. In order to be involved in the child's life, he knows where the rape victim and child live, can attend school and athletic events and perhaps even do pick up and drop off at the victim's house. The rape victim can not move to another town or state if it might interrupt the rapist's ability to see his child.

Through the next 18 years, the rapist knows all sorts of details about the victim's life and in effect, continues to control her life by forcing her to raise the child conceived in rape as well as being present in her life in a daily way.

[mcgee]

^ This happened in Missouri, when Todd Akin was in the state legislature. I don't remember all of the details, but I do remember the legislature discussing a bill that would prevent someone convicted of rape from gaining custody or visitation of any child conceived from that act because apparently a rapist DID sue for custody.

[mcgee]

childsupportguidelines.com/articles/art200106.html - info here about the states that have guidelines addressing custody/visitation/parental rights of convicted rapists regarding children conceived via rape.

[daringmiss]

Aug 22, 2012 12:56:25 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

That's not what she said. ""If God has chosen to bless this person (The Rape Victim) with a life, you don’t kill it."

I'm actually on your side on this, I'm just surprised the outlash against her saying that a baby is a blessing, you don't kill it, when I think that's a fairly commonly held belief.

Here is the reason for the outrage:

A rapist violates your body for the period of time that the act of rape occurs. The rapist pushes himself into her most intimate place against her will. He occupies her body for as long as he wants

Then, because she was not allowed to take contraception after the rape or abort the fetus that comes from the rape, the woman is pregnant. She is required by law to carry this pregnancy to term. Every day she must wake up with a physical, moving, growing reminder of this horrific act. Her body will experience all of the physical effects of pregnancy -- the pains, discomforts, the detrimental physical effects -- not out of joy and wanting, but because she was forced to do so. The physical violation of her body continues for nine months. Her life, her body is hijacked for the length of the pregnancy.

Every time someone comes up and congratulates her on her pregnancy, she will be reminded of how it occurred. It will stay fresh and hot in her mind. And when she delivers this unwanted child, who knows if the birth will go easily. Who knows what damage will be wrought upon her body during the birth?

I don't think that most women would find this forced pregnancy a blessing. If a rape victim held the beliefs that would find this pregnancy a blessing, she is entitled to keep the child. But to force ALL rape victims to continue with the pregnancy because of the beliefs of some people is just cruel.

No law

[daringmiss]

Aug 22, 2012 13:14:04 GMT -5 mcgee said:

childsupportguidelines.com/articles/art200106.html - info here about the states that have guidelines addressing custody/visitation/parental rights of convicted rapists regarding children conceived via rape.

Notice how many of those laws use the word "MAY". That means that the judge is free to use his/her discretion in ordering the termination of parental rights.

Too much leeway in my book.

[daringmiss]

And my final point...

We talk about rape victims as if they were all single women. What if the victim is married? Or has other children? What about the effect of a forced pregnancy on her marriage? Her husband and their marital relationship? Her children?

[penguingrrl]

I'm curious how much higher the suicide rate among rape victims would be if they were forced to carry the baby to term. I assume there would be some amount of back alley pre-Roe abortions going on, but for those who can't access that I wonder if they would take their own life to escape that nightmare.

[mcgee]

Aug 22, 2012 13:31:56 GMT -5 daringmiss said:

And my final point...

We talk about rape victims as if they were all single women. What if the victim is married? Or has other children? What about the effect of a forced pregnancy on her marriage? Her husband and their marital relationship? Her children?

There's a REALLY good article here: georgetownlawjournal.org/files/pdf/98-3/Prewitt.PDF

I have just skimmed the first few pages, but I think it's probably worth the read when I have more time.

[bqbride]

Aug 22, 2012 12:47:51 GMT -5 daringmiss said:

Here is something that most people forget in all of this:

If a federal "personhood" amendment goes through, the "morning after pill" would not be permitted. If sexual contact occurs (consensual or not) and an egg is fertilized, then the woman can not take the "morning after pill" or Plan B because that would prevent the fertilized egg from implanting, thereby aborting the zygote. Therefore, women who go to the ER to report a rape could not be given the morning after pill, resulting in many more pregnancies from rape.

"Personhood" amendments and the anti-abortion movement is aiming at a lot more than abolishing abortion. The aim is to prevent most family planning methods from being available, even to married couples.

This is my suspicion as well, and my tin-foil hat theory is that the purpose is to create a permanent, uneducated, poverty-stricken underclass that is easily manipulated and can be endlessly exploited for fun and profit by the corporate puppet masters who rule this country.

Yay! fiscal responsibility! ^o)

[gretchenindisguise]

Aug 22, 2012 13:24:03 GMT -5 daringmiss said:

Aug 22, 2012 12:56:25 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

That's not what she said. ""If God has chosen to bless this person (The Rape Victim) with a life, you don’t kill it."

I'm actually on your side on this, I'm just surprised the outlash against her saying that a baby is a blessing, you don't kill it, when I think that's a fairly commonly held belief.

Here is the reason for the outrage:

A rapist violates your body for the period of time that the act of rape occurs. The rapist pushes himself into her most intimate place against her will. He occupies her body for as long as he wants

Then, because she was not allowed to take contraception after the rape or abort the fetus that comes from the rape, the woman is pregnant. She is required by law to carry this pregnancy to term. Every day she must wake up with a physical, moving, growing reminder of this horrific act. Her body will experience all of the physical effects of pregnancy -- the pains, discomforts, the detrimental physical effects -- not out of joy and wanting, but because she was forced to do so. The physical violation of her body continues for nine months. Her life, her body is hijacked for the length of the pregnancy.

Every time someone comes up and congratulates her on her pregnancy, she will be reminded of how it occurred. It will stay fresh and hot in her mind. And when she delivers this unwanted child, who knows if the birth will go easily. Who knows what damage will be wrought upon her body during the birth?

I don't think that most women would find this forced pregnancy a blessing. If a rape victim held the beliefs that would find this pregnancy a blessing, she is entitled to keep the child. But to force ALL rape victims to continue with the pregnancy because of the beliefs of some people is just cruel.

No law

Yes, yes, I get all of that. I'm on board with all of that. Like I said, I'm really truly fervently on your side.

What I don't get is the outrage of her saying "a life is a blessing" because that's not a new idea being expressed. It's just odd to me.

[meshaliuknits]

I cannot bring my head around on this sentiment. The lack of empathy it shows is astounding.

But, FSM, I love this pic so, so much.

Aug 21, 2012 20:45:46 GMT -5 lyssbobiss, Command, B613 said:

[NitaX]

Aug 22, 2012 13:31:56 GMT -5 daringmiss said:

And my final point...

We talk about rape victims as if they were all single women. What if the victim is married? Or has other children? What about the effect of a forced pregnancy on her marriage? Her husband and their marital relationship? Her children?

YESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!

This is exactly what I was telling my H this morning. I decided I no longer wanted to take bcp. After our daughter was born, my H decided he would get the Big V done. We found out it was less costly for him to do the vasectomy and less recovery time than if I got a tubal ligation.

If I were raped, this could be me under such a proposed law. I would be forced, as a married woman, to carry a child I did not want. Not only my mental anguish, what about my husband? To know that some man violated his wife, and then the law violates us further by saying I have to carry this child to term? What fucking sense does this make? Or what if I'm a woman who has a horrible time with pregnancy? What if I have to be placed on bedrest? And I also have to foot the medical bills?

Hell and No.

[msmerymac]

Aug 22, 2012 13:50:41 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

What I don't get is the outrage of her saying "a life is a blessing" because that's not a new idea being expressed. It's just odd to me.

I've said many times that I can understand the stance that a fetus is a human life, and abortion is murder. And in that case, yes, even the fetus growing inside a rape victim is a human life worthy of being born. I honestly can see that as more compassionate in a way than being pro-life, but allowing exceptions for rape and incest. So, those babies don't count? You only want women who have sex for funsies to not have smashmortions? Okay, then. At least if you're consistent, I can see how it really might be about the fetus. I think it's short sighted, I don't agree with the position, and upon further inspection, it brings up a whole host of other moral and legal issues. But I get it.

But there's also a time and a place to talk about that. Basically, if you're talking in generalities, like, "I never think abortion is the right option," then, well, good for you. If we are talking SPECIFICALLY about rape victims and you make a comment akin to, "time to make lemonade out of those lemons!" you're a douchebag. Have some compassion and know when to shut your pie hole.


But I also understand how pro-lifers are damned if they do, damned if they don't. You support exceptions for rape and incest, and you're a misogynist who wants to punish women for having consensual sex. You don't support those exemptions and you are incalculably cruel to victims of sexual assault and clearly don't care about the well-being of rape survivors. All the more reason not to be pro-life, I guess.