Teachers- is this typical re: contract negotiations?

[quesyrah]

Is it typical to still be negotiating contract terms after school has started?

We had our first PTA meeting today and discussed getting volunteers for the Halloween carnival. Apparently the teachers typically stand at their classroom door and hand out candy but if they don't settle their contract, per the union, they aren't allowed to do anything school related that is outside their contract hours of 7:30-3:30. They've been told they cannot volunteer to do stuff outside those hours.

Also I just got a robo call from our superintendent saying that a social media campaign is underway urging students not to show up to school in support of the teachers (I hadn't heard that).

How are they working if they aren't technically under contract?

[auroraloo]

We often work off contract. My district doesn't currently have a contract. This happens when negotiations take longer than ideal. Our contract from two years ago was just settled in january (?) of last year.

When they reach a certain point in negotiations, teachers will go to a "work to rights" situation. When this occurs, teachers all wait in the parking lot in the morning, and walk in the door together, not one minute before our contracted hours. We all leave at the same time in the afternoon as well. We do not work from home, we don't stay late for non-contract hours, etc.

The idea is that it may prevent a strike because things slow down so much when we don't do all the work we do on our time. If work-to-rights doesn't help the contract get settled, that is when strike talks and votes start to happen.

[sallyanne]

Ours are going on strike next week unless a miracle happens this week. Not impressed.

[quesyrah]

I don't want to get into what it is they're disagreeing over but I'll be honest, I'm going to be upset (not just at the teachers) if this interrupts my kid's year

[quesyrah]

Sept 24, 2015 21:37:34 GMT -5 sallyanne said:

Ours are going on strike next week unless a miracle happens this week. Not impressed.

What the school's plan if they strike?

[auroraloo]

*walks away*

[lala]

I think many unions will agree to keep working w/o the new contract but like rora said, very bare bones, no extras. No one wants a strike.

[quesyrah]

Sept 24, 2015 21:43:30 GMT -5 auroraloo said:

*walks away*

First of all, I'm not blaming the teachers. Second, I have no issue with the teachers doing nothing but teaching and only during their contract hours.

But, if it causes issues with my kid's instructional time and learning, then I absolutely take issue with it. And I think anyone would feel the same.

If what the teachers at the meeting said today is true, I will be mad if they can't settle that issue and it impacts the kids.

[auroraloo]

Sept 24, 2015 21:51:15 GMT -5 quesyrah said:

Sept 24, 2015 21:43:30 GMT -5 auroraloo said:

*walks away*

First of all, I'm not blaming the teachers. Second, I have no issue with the teachers doing nothing but teaching and only during their contract hours.

But, if it causes issues with my kid's instructional time and learning, then I absolutely take issue with it. And I think anyone would feel the same.

If what the teachers at the meeting said today is true, I will be mad if they can't settle that issue and it impacts the kids.

I just figured with two people talking about disagreeing (implied) with the teachers, it was best if I didn't get involved  

lala is right. No one wants a strike, if it gets to that point, it's something both parties feel is super important. Chances are teachers (and school boards) are on a gag order about serious issues as well, so what parents may be hearing is most likely not the whole story. 

[quesyrah]

Sept 24, 2015 22:06:34 GMT -5 auroraloo said:

Sept 24, 2015 21:51:15 GMT -5 quesyrah said:

First of all, I'm not blaming the teachers. Second, I have no issue with the teachers doing nothing but teaching and only during their contract hours.

But, if it causes issues with my kid's instructional time and learning, then I absolutely take issue with it. And I think anyone would feel the same.

If what the teachers at the meeting said today is true, I will be mad if they can't settle that issue and it impacts the kids.

I just figured with two people talking about disagreeing (implied) with the teachers, it was best if I didn't get involved  

lala is right. No one wants a strike, if it gets to that point, it's something both parties feel is super important. Chances are teachers (and school boards) are on a gag order about serious issues as well, so what parents may be hearing is most likely not the whole story. 

Okay I thought you were saying I was blaming the teachers or thinking they were just being jerks or something. Fwiw, based on what the teachers said today and info thats availably publicly I can't say I blame them for pushing for what they're asking for.

I guess what it boils down to is that I'm kind of feeling like maybe they should've communicated some sort of "hey FYI we're in contract negotiations and we've got a plan in place for getting through the year should it come to that." Or something

[sallyanne]

Our district has been on work to rule (sounds the same as rora explained work to rights is) since April. The high schools had a strike for 6 weeks in the spring that almost made them lose their semester. The govement had to get involved and order them back to work to save the year. The primary grades are still on work to rule which is making communication very hard with the teachers. This is proving to be a big issue for getting the jk kids settled well in their classes and the parents trusting the schools.

I fully believe in some of the reasons for them taking action. A major point of theirs is classroom sizes. 40 kids in high school and 30 in primary classes. So I support this part. They also want more money, more vacations blah blah blah same things they have been asking for since I was 15.

If they go on strike (which they 99.9% will) all classes are cancelled. All day cares run out of schools are cancelled. With something like 12 hours notice. And if history is any indication it will last a month. There has been a month long strike almost every year for the past 15 years. It is ridiculous.

Ds1 has only been in school for 9 days now. So he might get another 4 days before the strike happens. He will have just started to get use to school then be out for who knows how long and then they will need to start all over again.

I personally feel the teaching profession should not be able to strike. In primary grades the curriculum might be able to be caught up to again. But missing 6 weeks of grade 12?! That is settle those kids behind going into post secondary.

A long term solution needs to be made so teachers stop working without contracts and going into the same cycle over and over. I don't know what that solution is but there has got to be something that can be done.

[quesyrah]

Sept 24, 2015 22:14:30 GMT -5 sallyanne said:

Our district has been on work to rule (sounds the same as rora explained work to rights is) since April. The high schools had a strike for 6 weeks in the spring that almost made them lose their semester. The govement had to get involved and order them back to work to save the year. The primary grades are still on work to rule which is making communication very hard with the teachers. This is proving to be a big issue for getting the jk kids settled well in their classes and the parents trusting the schools.

I fully believe in some of the reasons for them taking action. A major point of theirs is classroom sizes. 40 kids in high school and 30 in primary classes. So I support this part. They also want more money, more vacations blah blah blah same things they have been asking for since I was 15.

If they go on strike (which they 99.9% will) all classes are cancelled. All day cares run out of schools are cancelled. With something like 12 hours notice. And if history is any indication it will last a month. There has been a month long strike almost every year for the past 15 years. It is ridiculous.

Ds1 has only been in school for 9 days now. So he might get another 4 days before the strike happens. He will have just started to get use to school then be out for who knows how long and then they will need to start all over again.

I personally feel the teaching profession should not be able to strike. In primary grades the curriculum might be able to be caught up to again. But missing 6 weeks of grade 12?! That is settle those kids behind going into post secondary.

A long term solution needs to be made so teachers stop working without contracts and going into the same cycle over and over. I don't know what that solution is but there has got to be something that can be done.

Wow that's crazy.

My mom taught for 20 years and I don't ever remember her having contract negotiations like this. I guess things have changed.

[lala]

If they've had a month long strike every year for 15 years, this has nothing to do with whether teachers should strike or not but that the school district is fundamentally dysfunctional. That's not anywhere near normal.

[sallyanne]

Sept 24, 2015 22:24:29 GMT -5 lala said:

If they've had a month long strike every year for 15 years, this has nothing to do with whether teachers should strike or not but that the school district is fundamentally dysfunctional. That's not anywhere near normal.

I agree there is a major issue at a higher level. It is a provincial issue it seems. The spring strike was across at least 6 districts. It was a mess. I do stronger feel though that the profession sound need to work through their negotiations even if it is at a work to rule level. The problem with work to rule (at least around here) is it accomplishes nothing. The strike always seems to happen before the contract is finilized.
I don't understand a lot about how it all works. So this is all just at a basic opionon of being a student and now parent in the school system.

[lexus]

Sept 24, 2015 22:31:58 GMT -5 sallyanne said:

Sept 24, 2015 22:24:29 GMT -5 lala said:

If they've had a month long strike every year for 15 years, this has nothing to do with whether teachers should strike or not but that the school district is fundamentally dysfunctional. That's not anywhere near normal.

I agree there is a major issue at a higher level. It is a provincial issue it seems. The spring strike was across at least 6 districts. It was a mess. I do stronger feel though that the profession sound need to work through their negotiations even if it is at a work to rule level. The problem with work to rule (at least around here) is it accomplishes nothing. The strike always seems to happen before the contract is finilized.
I don't understand a lot about how it all works. So this is all just at a basic opionon of being a student and now parent in the school system.

So my rights as an employee mean nothing? IME teachers don't want to strike, unions try everything else first. At the end of the day, higher salaries and good work conditions attract better quality teachers.

[sallyanne]

Sept 24, 2015 22:45:21 GMT -5 lexus said:

Sept 24, 2015 22:31:58 GMT -5 sallyanne said:

I agree there is a major issue at a higher level. It is a provincial issue it seems. The spring strike was across at least 6 districts. It was a mess. I do stronger feel though that the profession sound need to work through their negotiations even if it is at a work to rule level. The problem with work to rule (at least around here) is it accomplishes nothing. The strike always seems to happen before the contract is finilized.
I don't understand a lot about how it all works. So this is all just at a basic opionon of being a student and now parent in the school system.

So my rights as an employee mean nothing? IME teachers don't want to strike, unions try everything else first. At the end of the day, higher salaries and good work conditions attract better quality teachers.

As I said, I don't know what the best solution would be. But taking weeks out education away from students each year is not fair to them. Teachers were on work to rule all summer. Except schools were closed so of course it didn't impact anything and nothing happened with contracts. It seems nothing happens until a full strike happens. I understand teachers are stuck doing as the union tells them they have to. Maybe it needs to be treated more like an emergency service. Police cannot go on full strike and some how their contracts get renewed.

15 years of strikes has unfortunately left teachers looking like the bad guys to the public and it needs to be taken care of so we can start trusting the school system again.

[quesyrah]

Sept 24, 2015 22:55:31 GMT -5 sallyanne said:

Sept 24, 2015 22:45:21 GMT -5 lexus said:

So my rights as an employee mean nothing? IME teachers don't want to strike, unions try everything else first. At the end of the day, higher salaries and good work conditions attract better quality teachers.

As I said, I don't know what the best solution would be. But taking weeks out education away from students each year is not fair to them. Teachers were on work to rule all summer. Except schools were closed so of course it didn't impact anything and nothing happened with contracts. It seems nothing happens until a full strike happens. I understand teachers are stuck doing as the union tells them they have to. Maybe it needs to be treated more like an emergency service. Police cannot go on full strike and some how their contracts get renewed.

15 years of strikes has unfortunately left teachers looking like the bad guys to the public and it needs to be taken care of so we can start trusting the school system again.

I don't know, if its been like this for 15 years it sounds like the district is being totally unreasonable.

[sallyanne]

Sept 24, 2015 22:58:32 GMT -5 quesyrah said:

Sept 24, 2015 22:55:31 GMT -5 sallyanne said:

As I said, I don't know what the best solution would be. But taking weeks out education away from students each year is not fair to them. Teachers were on work to rule all summer. Except schools were closed so of course it didn't impact anything and nothing happened with contracts. It seems nothing happens until a full strike happens. I understand teachers are stuck doing as the union tells them they have to. Maybe it needs to be treated more like an emergency service. Police cannot go on full strike and some how their contracts get renewed.

15 years of strikes has unfortunately left teachers looking like the bad guys to the public and it needs to be taken care of so we can start trusting the school system again.

I don't know, if its been like this for 15 years it sounds like the district is being totally unreasonable.

I honestly don't know what the issues have been over the past 15 years. Media of course always focuses on the same things. I just hope some miracle happens this year so they don't strike while ds1 is just settling into JK.

[lovebeingmama]

Yes. Our school district worked for an entire year without a contract. Strikes were discussed, I believed, but never happened.

I promise that the teachers also want to avoid strikes.

[andrewsgal]

We are a non Union state so we can work all the hours and there is no such thing as contract negotiations. You sign a basic 187 day contract and are paid by the district pay scale the end.

[chatterbox]

We went six years without a contract. The union ended up having to put negotiations on hold until a new mayor was elected.

[dizzycooks]

We don't have a contract right now. We haven't done work to rule, but that's just because our union has grown soft in the last decade. They use to. I kind of wish they would because it might get people off their butts and help push them to make some choices. That said, not working after hours (grading papers, planning, etc) would make my life hell and unfortunately, it would impact the classroom because I wouldn't get things back to kids as quickly, and wouldn't be planning as complicated activities (prep wise).

And I'm probably going to walk away from this now because I'm already in a pissy mood.

[lexus]

Sept 24, 2015 23:01:19 GMT -5 sallyanne said:

Sept 24, 2015 22:58:32 GMT -5 quesyrah said:

I don't know, if its been like this for 15 years it sounds like the district is being totally unreasonable.

I honestly don't know what the issues have been over the past 15 years. Media of course always focuses on the same things. I just hope some miracle happens this year so they don't strike while ds1 is just settling into JK.

I understand what you are saying that would be unfortunate. I urge you to look into the problem, heck maybe you should even ask your son's teacher. Jumping to conclusions and ranting to a group of teachers or former teachers about how their rights aren't as important as your son's JK year isn't going to win you any friends. We have kids we are providing for too. Forty kids in a classroom is incredibly high, in fact, it's four more kids than the max in California . Now multiple that times five classes a day and your talking about two hundred kids, essays or math tests. And like Lala said earlier, fifteen years of problems sounds like serious issues.

[sallyanne]

If I had realized this is just a group of teachers/former teachers I wouldn't have posted at all. Lol. As I mentioned I am not informed of all the issues. And around here 90% of the teachers have a holier then you attitude which makes it hard to have a peer to peer conversation with them. I am currently trying to break down that wall with my son's teacher so we can focus on issues he is having. If they do strike though I plan on going with my son to ask them to explain the strike points with us. It will be a good learning experience.

I think we can leave this at both agreeing that as a parent the idea of a month of school would be unsettling. And I would assume that as a teacher going on strike (along with the contract issues) it would be hard to lose that amount of time teaching the students and having to basically restart the year again at the end of October. It isn't that I don't think the contracts should be finilized. I just wish there was a better way to get them done without taking away from the kids education.

[mamaalysson]

We worked without a contract my entire last two years of teaching. And the nutty thing was that once that whole mess was settled, the contract team had to turn right around and do it again because the contract they had just settled was set to expire at the end of the school year. That was one of the huge sticking points was to get the district to agree to a three year contract instead of a two year so that teachers could have at least a year to just teach and not worry about a contract.

There were definitely strike talks my last year, and we did a week of "work to rule" before things settled. Honestly, that sucked. I taught kindergarten, there is a lot of prep that happens in the evening. We weren't supposed to take work home, but I'll be honest and say that more than one of us teamed up to sneak work into our cars during the middle of the day when parents wouldn't see. Teachers want to teach as much as parents want their kids to learn. Contract years suck, especially in a political climate, and no teacher is sitting in those meetings joyful about the possibility of striking. And often the sticking points are not the things that people think the "greedy teachers" are after. Our big sticking points were class size and increasing the school year/day without a plan to increase supports or compensation.

[lattelady5]

30-40 kids per teacher? Hellz no.

If strikes are happening that often, clearly there is an issue with the district.

There was talk of a strike when I was in elementary school but it was settled before anything happened.

[mamaalysson]

Also, understand that when a strike is looking imminent, there is a team of people working tirelessly to avoid it. NO ONE thinks a strike is good for the children, and no one wants to strike. But teachers have every right to be compensated fairly and heard when it comes to issues of class size and work days. Last year, when the contract negotiated in my last year was set to expire, teachers got even closer to a strike. They got so far as to pack up their classrooms of all personal and teacher created/provided materials (which is most everything). Contract negotiations went for a straight 36 hours and a settlement was reached in the wee hours of the morning. Not fun for anyone.

[lala]

When we were having a class size issue, I am not sure what the union was doing if anything. But I know the parents were at every school board meeting arguing & fighting fir another teacher to be hired. Other concerns have also been settled by the board due to parent involvement.

[mamaalysson]

Sept 25, 2015 9:51:17 GMT -5 lala said:

When we were having a class size issue, I am not sure what the union was doing if anything. But I know the parents were at every school board meeting arguing & fighting fir another teacher to be hired. Other concerns have also been settled by the board due to parent involvement.

Parent support and involvement is huge. sallyanne I would suggest asking questions, getting answers, and fighting alongside your teachers for your child's education. And understand that you may not be hearing a lot from the union because they probably cannot speak about the contract negotiations, or are really limited in what they can say. Talk to people - teachers, other parents, community members - and figure out how to make it better.

[quesyrah]

Honestly I hadn't even thought of a strike until SallyAnne mentioned it. This is our first year in school. If a strike does happen I have no idea what to expect as far as how the school will handle it without disrupting the kids learning. And I think that's a fair feeling as a parent.

I didn't even know the teachers were only working their contract hours so they are obviously committed to their students.

I just didn't know it was possible or even common to be working without having a contract.

And again, based on the info available publicly and what the teachers said at the PTA meeting, I don't think they're being unreasonable in their demands.

I'm not anti teacher. At all.