I think we can all agree that BigLaw is the worst when it comes to work/life balance. I was wondering whether companies or employers really do care about making sure their employees have a balance. It seems like it's something that they strive for, but does it really happen?
I'm not a lawyer, but there have definitely been times when I've had to miss events in my friends/family lives. There was also the time that I was halfway around the world when I wasn't sure my dad was going to make it out of the ICU. I left thinking he was fine, but he took a turn for the worse while I was traveling. Thankfully, my boss was understanding and I cut my trip short (I did finish what I was there to do) and I was able to come back sooner.
Also, I have been asked in interviews in the past how I feel about the potential for missing out on certain events etc in my life because of work commitments. I was a little taken aback by it, but I had plenty of examples to share where it has happened in the past and that I've worked around it.
So does your employer push for a work/life balance or do they leave that up to the individual employee to figure out for him/herself?
I have always had a good work-life balance, but I've also always worked in non-profits. They tend to be very family friendly and understanding of life events. At the job I just left, my boss's mantra was always "Family comes first." I could rearrange my schedule or take time off as needed to accommodate being there for events.
I don't really do anything important enough that I would have to miss out on a life event.
My firm markets itself as a place where it is possible and encouraged, but it's still on individual attorneys to make it happen for themselves. We've had some who feel like they have a good balance, and others (often the ones who work less efficiently/have poor time management skills/self discipline) who struggle to achieve it and feel like they have to work all the time to hit their numbers.
Partners take vacations and people are willing to cover for each other, so I feel like it's about as good a balance as a law firm is likely to strike. Doesn't mean it's easy or perfect though! Client service professions are hard that way.
Post by tacosforlife on Oct 2, 2015 10:42:30 GMT -5
My agency has a great work-life balance. We're limited by the leave allowed by federal law, but I have never once had a leave request denied. I don't even have to give a reason unless it's going to be sick leave beyond 3 or 4 days. And I'm literally not allowed to bring work home. When the job gets boring or annoying, I remind myself how awesome that is.
I don't know that I'd say that biglaw is the worst. It is an industry where work/life balance is often completely at odds with doing your job profitably and effectively (what are they selling? billable hours and 24/7/365 client service) -- but it certainly isn't the only industry like that.
My current managers certainly appreciate balance in their own lives and are perfectly fine with me finding balance in my own life. I do have to travel quite a bit which involves some sacrifice, but there's very little that couldn't be scheduled around a vacation or other important commitment. I'm not expected to check email constantly outside of office hours (I am expected to check it, but once a weekend is fine) and putting in insane hours isn't expected (nor do I think it would make me more appreciated).
Post by irene adler on Oct 2, 2015 10:56:41 GMT -5
My job (academia) has a great work/life balance. I love it. I keep a list of the awesome benefits of working here on my phone to refer to when it makes me crazy and/or cranky.
When I was working professionally, that was not often the case. Although fun, it was so stressful. I am very work oriented, and I don't think I could have handled having a long term relationship while working those kinds of hours because my job would have always come first. At least, that was my mindset at the time--it didn't change until I started working at a university.
My boss owns my company -- we have over 2000 employees right now. In our corporate office, he very clearly supports a work/life balance. He realizes that if people aren't chained to their email accounts and working weekends, he doesn't have to pay them top dollar. It also makes us more engaged and appreciative. I'm at VP level and I can leave at 4:30pm every day to go make dinner for my kids....I honestly can't put a price tag on knowing I can take PTO to care for a sick kid or call out when I need to. We will move mountains for this company because of it.
I'm in editorial. Things usually get tight around production time, but there's a lot of down time in between where it's easier to take time off.
I've always had a pretty good work/life balance because, frankly, my job isn't that major or important. Some managers have been more understanding than others. The manager at my first job was very reluctant to grant time off to anyone. He usually called me at home on a sick day to "ask how to do something" (i.e. check up on me) while he and others were covering for me. He didn't want me to take a day off, or come in late, to visit my father in the hospital after major surgery ... I went anyway, resolving to quit if he yelled at me for it. Thankfully he was nice about it - he was pretty nice to me in general (maybe because I was young?), but he could be a real beast to others.
I don't think I even took any time off at my worst-ever job, since I was only there a couple months and they didn't really seem to want to grant time off anyway. Vacation time had to be scheduled WAY in advance because you couldn't have more than one or two people out at a time. Holidays and peak summer vacation time got snapped up fast.
My current managers are very understanding and don't give me trouble when I need time off, but the new-ish CEO seems mad that people in the office aren't staying past the official quitting time. I got reprimanded today for coming in later than I should. I get it, and I need to get better ... but I get my work done, I don't cause trouble, and I typically stay later to make up for it.
Post by fortnightlily on Oct 2, 2015 11:04:10 GMT -5
I work for a software company. We don't have a culture of working people to death but we don't hear a lot of explicit lip-service from the top to work-life balance either. So in practice it really comes down to your manager. My manager expects you to get your work done, even if that means nights or weekends if a tight deadline is approaching, but he doesn't care if you have to take off a few hours early here to take your car to the shop or there to attend your kid's recital or whatever. He sets the example because he's often leaving early to transit his kids around to soccer tournaments.
I'm an attorney for local government. In my office, you can kind of choose your own destiny, but may suffer some gossip regarding your choices. A lot of people (myself included) have managed to maintain a good balance. Other people are total trial animals, working nights and weekends on heavy-duty cases.
FWIW, we all get paid the same. So there's not much incentive to be a trial beast unless you really enjoy doing that or have ambitions of moving into management.
As far as time off, I've never had problems for major things like many leave, or when my dad passed. We get a lot of PTO, but longer vacations (more than a week) can get a little tricky depending on one's assignment due to the timelines we have for cases.
As a couple, Mr. P and I have hit every range and rung of work/life balance on the career ladder.
My hospitality career---70 hour work weeks with Tuesdays off. Working all holidays, all vacation periods, and please enjoy your one, maybe two weeks a year off during the shitty season. I had various other jobs with a ton of time committed, but still you understand that is part of the culture. I now SAH.
Mr. P worked on site in the oilfield, 24/7 sometimes for 30 days straight for about 8 years. He put in his time and now has a position where he works at home, travels some (I usually go too) and it's pretty damn nice. He jumps when called, but it comes with a ton of free time. He's basically a technical consultant. We will do what we have to, but as the oil & gas industry contracts, we have no idea what his next position will look like. One good thing is that we both understand the demands.
I work for the federal government. I feel like my agency and my office in particular has a great work/life balance. Telework is the biggest thing that contributes to my ability to balance work and life.
Time off is somewhere in the middle, not as progressive as some companies, but fair enough. Maternity leave is the one huge thing that is missing, IMHO.
I'm in O&G and my balance is pretty good. I'm not out in the field though, Those guys have it bad. It's typical to miss most holidays, birthdays, anniversaries etc. working in the field. My cousin schedules birthday parties around when her H is off the rig. So we have been to parties that were a month after the actual birthday.
Post by jerseyjaybird on Oct 2, 2015 12:09:43 GMT -5
I work for a non-profit. In the arts/education.
My work is project-based, with firm deadlines. Ideally, we would all be encouraged to use the generous vacation leave we're awarded during less-busy periods. In reality, only middle managers and the director take their vacation time, and they are generally unavailable during their vacations. When the rest of us use vacation time and/or sick leave, it's really frowned upon and we are generally expected to respond to texts/e-mail several times a day. Teleworking is totally discouraged, but sometimes tolerated, though, again, the managers are permitted to work from home whenever they'd like.
I sound so bitter. It's really, really tough to land a job in my field, so we're pretty easy to exploit. The elephant in the room is how fungible we all are.
And all that said, when someone has a genuine family emergency, their time away from the office is 100% respected.
Post by steamboat185 on Oct 2, 2015 12:18:40 GMT -5
I work for a larger company with over 30k employees. In my current role I have great work/life balance. My VP really emphasizes flexibility and balance. I work from home one day a week and can leave when needed. My previous role with the same company was not as forgiving. I usually worked 55 hours a week and had to fight to work from home occasionally. It was common to answer emails at 10pm and on vacation.
So it sounds like most people have a 'choose your own destiny' situation and it's up to whether your management is supportive. That's good to hear except you could get totally screwed if you end up with a micromanager or a group that doesn't care for any sort of balance.
jerseyjaybird - that is really unfortunate that the managers can use telework arrangements but it's not available to everyone. That definitely sends the wrong message.
So it sounds like most people have a 'choose your own destiny' situation and it's up to whether your management is supportive. That's good to hear except you could get totally screwed if you end up with a micromanager or a group that doesn't care for any sort of balance.
jerseyjaybird - that is really unfortunate that the managers can use telework arrangements but it's not available to everyone. That definitely sends the wrong message.
This place is a Vanity Fair article in the making.
I work in finance which is known for it's crazy hours and complete lack of work-life balance.
I do have to cancel things and I am chained to my work phone 24/7. But I do believe my work cares about a balance and not working us to the bone and while I may not get much time off during the week, I have weekends fairly free, depending on the deadline.
I admittedly don't personally know any big law lawyers, but is it really the worse job lifestyle wise?
From a medicine perspective, I think it depends on your specialty, but during residency no matter your specialty, especially intern year, you expect to not have work/life balance and just make the most of it. 12-15 hours per day, 6 days a week is pretty typical. Taking a sick day, unless you are in the ER, is unheard of for the most part. But it's pretty much expected, so we get used to it.
Post by pinkdutchtulips on Oct 2, 2015 13:31:18 GMT -5
I lasted 2 years as a paralegal in BigLaw
Everywhere else has STRONGLY encouraged work/life balance. My old firm gave me a week of paid admin leave (outside of my PTO) to deal w whatever I had to deal w when xh and I split. It was awesome to have a week to pack, move and unpack AND not have to worry about work !
Post by tacosforlife on Oct 2, 2015 13:39:44 GMT -5
I'd actually argue that there are many small law firms that are probably worse than BigLaw. A lot of them have similarly abusive environments and require similar very high workloads but pay substantially less. So you're stressed to a similar level as a BigLaw associate, but you aren't paying off your student loans quickly, saving a lot, and/or outsourcing household tasks.
Post by Balki.Bartokomous on Oct 2, 2015 13:52:43 GMT -5
First two jobs (gov and university) were great. Last corporate job was not. Current job is MUCH better but I think it will still have its moments at quarter end.
I hate how corporations these days get away with basically owning people. It's so depressing. Fuck the man. It's been a long week, can you tell?
I'd actually argue that there are many small law firms that are probably worse than BigLaw. A lot of them have similarly abusive environments and require similar very high workloads but pay substantially less. So you're stressed to a similar level as a BigLaw associate, but you aren't paying off your student loans quickly, saving a lot, and/or outsourcing household tasks.
First two jobs (gov and university) were great. Last corporate job was not. Current job is MUCH better but I think it will still have its moments at quarter end.
I hate how corporations these days get away with basically owning people. It's so depressing. Fuck the man. It's been a long week, can you tell?
Yup. H is fighting this at work. He'll get in at 8 and start to leave at 4:30 or 5, and his coworker will say, "You're leaving already?" Fuck you, man, he's got a wife and pets at home that he'd like to spend some time with. His coworker will also work a lot over the weekend, and H isn't having any of that. Fortunately, he's really good at what he does and his boss generally likes his work, so he seems to have some leverage to not work all the time. But the expectation is creeping in, and it's annoying as fuck. Why, no, he would not like to do work at 3pm on a Saturday when his father is having a retirement party, fuckyouverymuch.
My agency has a great work-life balance. We're limited by the leave allowed by federal law, but I have never once had a leave request denied. I don't even have to give a reason unless it's going to be sick leave beyond 3 or 4 days. And I'm literally not allowed to bring work home. When the job gets boring or annoying, I remind myself how awesome that is.
Same for me. It's one of the major reasons - ok probably the reason - I have stayed here.
FWIW, I don't think there is any such thing as truly balancing the two. We recently had a speaker come, and she expressed how much she hates the term "work/life balance." She described it more accurately as a "work/life teeter totter." One side is work, and one side is life outside of work. The goal is not to remain perfectly balanced in the middle, but to move gracefully up and down, and that requires a network of supportive coworkers to take over work when life is busy, and a network of friends and family to take over home life when work gets busy. If you have no safety net on either side, you're going to fall and slam on the ground. It really resonated with me and I have taken steps to broaden my network in all areas of my life to help make those transitions gently.
Financial analyst at a megacorp here. Work-life balance in this company is generally good, though it varies based on your boss. Our group manager is a stickler about us being in office 9-6 pm, but doesn't expect us to come in early or stay late. And we never work weekends or late nights.
My boss also owns the company and for that reason, the work life balance message we get is schizophrenic at best. In theory, we have unlimited vacation. In reality, the only "acceptable" reason to take time off is to go on vacation. Moreover, the only acceptable reason to ignore emails while on vacation is if you're out of the country (which really makes no sense, because I've yet to travel anywhere where I don't have wi-fi or can't get it, but it's nice not to have the expectation, so whatever). I work from home and am off every Friday, but there's rarely a Friday I don't do some kind of work and today, I've probably put in 3-4 hours.
If BigLaw isn't the worst, it's definitely in the top three in my opinion. For the most part, the only people not clawing their way out are maniacs.
I've spend the last 8 years working for a local government (BTW, FOUR MORE DAYS IN THE OFFICE!!! Adios mother fuckers!). It was very much a chose your own scenario situation. Once I cleared the 6 month probabationary period and became a full member of our employees union I could chose to be average or excellent, with really no ramifications or benefits in either direction.
I can't shake my type A and tend to take on more than I can handle. I also chose to expand past my bare minimum duties in order to flesh out my resume and become a better candidate once I was ready to leave. This entailed working from home in the evenings and weekends, but It was usually on stuff I enjoy. I mean, come on! I have a fellowship to research the economic impact of historic beer breweries! That shits fun!
Finally, in the last 6 months I had a couple of quiet offers from colleagues in the private sector, so it was going to pay off. Now we're moving instead, which I'm pumped about!