The "only four hours a day" thing is a negative for me though. that's more after school care to pay for! lol
DS started Kindy this year and ours is only 3 hours a day. There is no social studies, no science, no gym or art. They do literacy and math. Once a week they have computer lab and 30 minutes of music. The amount of stuff he brings home is crazy, but there isn't enough time during the day for them to get it done. I hate it.
I'm all for early reading and literacy, but only if kids are interested and ready. A lot of the things this piece brings up are why we have the youngest in Montessori. I wish there were an option past Kinder for it here.
I did Montessori and learned to read on my own in K, as did my older sister. My little sister, OTOH, went to a much more strict K and struggled with reading for a long time. I don't know if that's just because she's different, or if it's because of the differences in the curriculums. I can distinctly remember sitting in the reading station and working with one of the teachers. I definitely learned to read in K, I just got to work on it for the amount of time that I wanted to work it, which seems to have been enough.
Eh. Finland does not seem to have the same issues as we have. Are their schools apportioned money based on how wealthy or poor (read: black/brown or white) the residents of the school's district are? Do they have a long, long history of racism against these black and brown kids, that includes keeping these black and brown kids out of these good schools? Are they routinely dealing with kids who come from homes with nothing including adequate shelter, healthcare, food, supervision and etc? I'm really glad for Finland, utopia that it is, that they are able to chuck the notion of academic for play. That's great. Really. Great nation doing great things, that Finland is. But we also did this type of schooling once upon a time and look where it got us? The achievement gap is larger than it ever has been between the haves and the haves nots, the black and the white. Forgive us for trying something different Finland, and Atlantic writer who was in the FIRST GRADE in the mid 90s.
But what if your 4yo wants to learn to read? I have never done anything formal with my kids (until this year - and it's totally whenever Scarlett wants to - and she wants to), and both were reading before K. Scarlett is reading now and has been for awhile (just turned 5). Jackson was reading at around 5.5 (his birthday is October, so he started K at almost 6).
I just let them play, so on the one hand, I see what the article is saying because that's how I approached my kids' lives until K. But both of them were ready for more before school really started for them, too.
you're just bragging that your kids are smarter then everyone else. it must have been the clothes.
Well and I wanted to know if this was going to be what they talk about in therapy one day, and if I had fucked up and they would be joyless...lol.
The reality with my kids is that MH and I did it right... a liberal arts nerd with a photographic memory who is above average in science/math even if she doesn't like it breeding with a science/math oriented nerd/genius.
It's all about genetic balance to produce the perfect specimen... ha!
FTR I really do believe in play based learning for the under K crowd. For K though I haven't seen studies to suggest that bringing in more acasemics is harmful.
Post by StrawberryBlondie on Oct 6, 2015 13:08:10 GMT -5
This is one thing I love about our daycare right now. Their curriculum is really heavily play-focused. I can tell she's learning every day, bit they really do do it in a way where they're just playing. Like, today, they learned about fall. So they read books about the season and then ram around outside to collect leaves.
She's 1 1/2 so how much she truly comprehends is a bit of a mystery, but she got to run around outside all morning.
you're just bragging that your kids are smarter then everyone else. it must have been the clothes.
Well and I wanted to know if this was going to be what they talk about in therapy one day, and if I had fucked up and they would be joyless...lol.
The reality with my kids is that MH and I did it right... a liberal arts nerd with a photographic memory who is above average in science/math even if she doesn't like it breeding with a science/math oriented nerd/genius.
It's all about genetic balance to produce the perfect specimen... ha!
And race too. If you and your H were born black and impovershed and due to systematic racism and inequality not allowed to let your academic talents flourish, would your kids be in the same position they are in today? How many science/math geniuses are sitting in abject poverty, going to underfunded, overcrowded schools right now? I don't think it's a matter of two smart people mating. It's a matter of two smart white people mating who were given a life of opportunity not afforded to so many others in America.
Which is again why I don't think comparing Finland to the US is fair.
Play based learning doesn't have to be stripped of academics, it is simply that the academic learning is done in the context of play and student interest/readiness. It recognizes the benefit of creative play and inquiry in skill and knowledge acquisition, as well as social and emotional development.
Well and I wanted to know if this was going to be what they talk about in therapy one day, and if I had fucked up and they would be joyless...lol.
The reality with my kids is that MH and I did it right... a liberal arts nerd with a photographic memory who is above average in science/math even if she doesn't like it breeding with a science/math oriented nerd/genius.
It's all about genetic balance to produce the perfect specimen... ha!
And race too. If you and your H were born black and impovershed and due to systematic racism and inequality not allowed to let your academic talents flourish, would your kids be in the same position they are in today? How many science/math geniuses are sitting in abject poverty, going to underfunded, overcrowded schools right now? I don't think it's a matter of two smart people mating. It's a matter of two smart white people mating who were given a life of opportunity not afforded to so many others in America.
Which is again why I don't think comparing Finland to the US is fair.
Fair. And mostly that was TIC anyway. It's something we joke about to help us keep our differences and areas where we clash in check because we truly have very different strengths and ways of communicating.
My FIL grew up in a very rural area. He wasn't poor really but his education was basically nonexistent especially in the area of study he chose to pursue. He was able to basically teach himself high level math when in college so he could get to where he needed to be despite being super far behind his peers. His family also wasn't supportive of him choosing college over the family business. I always find it so interesting and impressive that he was able to be so successful. I mean, yeah he's white and he went to college in a different era. But listening to him talk about the huge gaps in his knowledge in math and science and how he was able to study engineering at a top engineering school is fascinating to me because I honestly can't fathom it. I had a lot of advantages and access to teachers and classes and I'm not sure I could have hacked it in that program, let alone flourished. I guess that level of intelligence and drive is amazing to me, even as someone who was always a high achieving student. Like the very idea of doing that (teaching myself math to be able to keep up and get to where I needed in my college class) blows my mind. Those things seem so hard to me even when you are adequately prepared.
Post by marriedfilingjoint on Oct 6, 2015 13:55:46 GMT -5
I'm not sure what goes on before compulsory education at age 6/7 in Finland, but research supports pre-K in the states. I imagine that's age-appropriate, play-based pre-K.
My daughter just turned 4. We had her in preschool in the UK. I was curious if they would get as much play time since the British start compulsory education a year earlier than we do in the states. They had me watch some of the pre-reading exercises and it was very playful. They formed letters out of spaghetti noodles and took turns coming up with words that started with a particular sound. They don't name the letters at all because naming letters has no impact on literacy, which, meh, whatever.
Then we came back to the States. Last week J's teacher told me they were doing worksheets (4 year olds!) and J did one letter and was all "peace y'all" and went to play. I told her teacher that I couldn't even be mad and that I'd rather her not push the issue because I don't want her to have negative associations with reading and writing.
Research shows that there is really no point to learning to read at an early age. While early readers outperform their illiterate peers in K-2, research shows that it all evens out in grades 3-4 when the others catch up. Trying to force an unwilling child to sit and read does more harm than good - not only does it frustrate the child and harm their self esteem, but it also causes them to think reading is boring. Waiting until the child is ready and willing to learn will help give them a love of reading. And let's not even get into the pathologizing normal behavior in little boys who don't want to do it and the longterm damage the stigma if a diagnosis or health consequences of unnecessary medication.
I know everyone thought I was crazy in the homeschooling thread for saying that we get good results with only an hour or two of structured lessons with my 6 and 8 year olds, but kids at these young ages learn best by being given the freedom to play and explore the world around them. They do eventually WANT to learn to read and do math when they realize they need it to function and understand the world around them. Why force them to learn it before they need or want to? Good for Finland.
Pretty sure that's not the reason why people thought you were crazy...
Wasn't there another article posted here about how learning to read is NBD in Finland because everything is phonetic and grammar rules are consistent? They spend significantly less time on reading and spelling because there is much less memorization required. I think play is important for elementary students and it sounds like Finland does have a different model for early education, but there are other factors at play if the other article was accurate.
Yes, the Finnish language is almost 100% phonetic and consistent in its grammar rules.
Finnish people also have the best names. Teemu Selanne just rolls off the tongue.
But it is true that while Finland has been experiencing increased immigration since the 1990s, the immigrant community is still far smaller than elsewhere in Europe. So they have a more level playing field for their children, IMO.
I went to kindergarten in 1983 and what they are describing sounds pretty close to what I remember. I am now a super-awesome genius. Obviously, this is a causal relationship and all kindergartens should be this way.