Did y'all talk about this bullshit judge yet?

[sparkythelawyer]

This Bitch. This Bitch right here. Holy crap.

I really hope someone from Legal Aid is helping this woman and filing all sorts of complaints against this Judge.

[bittybomb]

Holy shit. That screams abuse of power. The abuser gets 16 days, and she gets 3? WHAT THE FUCK? I hope someone makes a complaint to the judiciary committee because that is more fucked up than I can even put into words.

[1confused1]

This poor woman

[underwaterrhymes]

She's a piece of shit, that judge.

Talk about a complete lack of understanding about what victims of abuse experience.

[cookies]

This makes me sick to my stomach.

[dana2006]

Burn it down!

[ninjabridemom]

Except Sue I guess I don't see why testifying needs to happen if they have her official statements etc. Why couldn't they get that information in a place where she felt safe, even with both lawyers but no douchebag present? Or something? There has to be middle, safer ground for abuse victims here.

^ Not a lawyer.

[jeaniebueller]

Oct 9, 2015 10:42:31 GMT -5 @cse1960 said:

I'm sorry, but my empathy ends with the baby. She failed to testify; and that asshole who put not only her life in danger but that of her child, got off on a misdemeanor and served 16 days instead of being convicted of a greater crime and being removed from the child's life. She told the prosecutor to put her in jail, she didn't care, she wasn't going to testify.
I was a prosecutor for a while, and it's infuriating to see people use the system like this. Sure, call for help, get the police involved, but don't let anything HAPPEN. This judge would have had her own ass on a platter in the same newspaper if she'd done nothing and the child's father came over on day 17 and hurt the baby; I can see that headline too. "Liberal judge lets father kill baby" or "Injured baby falls through system cracks" or whatever. She had an order to appear and testify about a case she called in for protection for herself and a helpless child, and said screw it she didn't want to, so now this man is free to hurt her, the baby, and anyone else he chooses to.

What good is putting her in jail though? She may return to the abuser. He may abuse her again in the future. Like I said in the CEP thread, I am very concerned about what effect the judge's actions will have on other victims of domestic violence who are going to see this and not call the police at all. And this victim certainly won't.

[underwaterrhymes]

Oct 9, 2015 10:42:31 GMT -5 @cse1960 said:

I'm sorry, but my empathy ends with the baby. She failed to testify; and that asshole who put not only her life in danger but that of her child, got off on a misdemeanor and served 16 days instead of being convicted of a greater crime and being removed from the child's life. She told the prosecutor to put her in jail, she didn't care, she wasn't going to testify.
I was a prosecutor for a while, and it's infuriating to see people use the system like this. Sure, call for help, get the police involved, but don't let anything HAPPEN. This judge would have had her own ass on a platter in the same newspaper if she'd done nothing and the child's father came over on day 17 and hurt the baby; I can see that headline too. "Liberal judge lets father kill baby" or "Injured baby falls through system cracks" or whatever. She had an order to appear and testify about a case she called in for protection for herself and a helpless child, and said screw it she didn't want to, so now this man is free to hurt her, the baby, and anyone else he chooses to.

Sue, c'mon now. You know how domestic violence works. Women and men both who are abused by their partners are often terrified to call the police, let alone testify. Additionally, there are all kinds of other emotions wrapped up in it, making it terribly challenging for them to separate love from fear and anger.

This woman needs counseling and support services - not jail.

Furthermore, this sends a terrible message to other victims of abuse. The judge was wrong.

[bittybomb]

Oct 9, 2015 10:42:31 GMT -5 @cse1960 said:

I'm sorry, but my empathy ends with the baby. She failed to testify; and that asshole who put not only her life in danger but that of her child, got off on a misdemeanor and served 16 days instead of being convicted of a greater crime and being removed from the child's life. She told the prosecutor to put her in jail, she didn't care, she wasn't going to testify.
I was a prosecutor for a while, and it's infuriating to see people use the system like this. Sure, call for help, get the police involved, but don't let anything HAPPEN. This judge would have had her own ass on a platter in the same newspaper if she'd done nothing and the child's father came over on day 17 and hurt the baby; I can see that headline too. "Liberal judge lets father kill baby" or "Injured baby falls through system cracks" or whatever. She had an order to appear and testify about a case she called in for protection for herself and a helpless child, and said screw it she didn't want to, so now this man is free to hurt her, the baby, and anyone else he chooses to.

I see this.  But I can also see how she may have been terrified to testify against him.  And I cannot ever hold that against someone no matter the outcome.

That judge is still a piece of shit.

[zoomzoom]

The judge is a piece of shit. If the woman feared for her life, I can understand her not wanting to appear before her abuser. She should have been able to testify in chambers or via closed circuit camera. Three days in jail is quite extreme - especially considering she has a child to take care of.

[fryjack2]

Did she have a written statement? Were there law enforcement officers who could have testified?

Why does a victim of domestic abuse, who already feels threatened and petrified, need to be present to testify in front of her abuser?

[sparkythelawyer]

Oct 9, 2015 10:42:31 GMT -5 @cse1960 said:

I'm sorry, but my empathy ends with the baby. She failed to testify; and that asshole who put not only her life in danger but that of her child, got off on a misdemeanor and served 16 days instead of being convicted of a greater crime and being removed from the child's life. She told the prosecutor to put her in jail, she didn't care, she wasn't going to testify.
I was a prosecutor for a while, and it's infuriating to see people use the system like this. Sure, call for help, get the police involved, but don't let anything HAPPEN. This judge would have had her own ass on a platter in the same newspaper if she'd done nothing and the child's father came over on day 17 and hurt the baby; I can see that headline too. "Liberal judge lets father kill baby" or "Injured baby falls through system cracks" or whatever. She had an order to appear and testify about a case she called in for protection for herself and a helpless child, and said screw it she didn't want to, so now this man is free to hurt her, the baby, and anyone else he chooses to.

That woman will never call the cops again.  The next time he beats her, she'll just take it.  Because if she gets too scared to testify, they'll put her in jail.

AND, now she has a criminal conviction on her record, so good luck getting any sort of job that could help her get out from under this wifebeating asshole.  

There were other avenues the judge could have pursued to express her displeasure with the victim.

And the victim was telling her advocate and the prosecutor a month prior she had no desire to go forward.  But they proceeded anyway.  They knew this was a risk.

This woman has such a higher risk of falling through the cracks now and ending up as another statistic.  

[sparkythelawyer]

Oct 9, 2015 10:42:31 GMT -5 @cse1960 said:

I'm sorry, but my empathy ends with the baby. She failed to testify; and that asshole who put not only her life in danger but that of her child, got off on a misdemeanor and served 16 days instead of being convicted of a greater crime and being removed from the child's life. She told the prosecutor to put her in jail, she didn't care, she wasn't going to testify.
I was a prosecutor for a while, and it's infuriating to see people use the system like this. Sure, call for help, get the police involved, but don't let anything HAPPEN. This judge would have had her own ass on a platter in the same newspaper if she'd done nothing and the child's father came over on day 17 and hurt the baby; I can see that headline too. "Liberal judge lets father kill baby" or "Injured baby falls through system cracks" or whatever. She had an order to appear and testify about a case she called in for protection for herself and a helpless child, and said screw it she didn't want to, so now this man is free to hurt her, the baby, and anyone else he chooses to.

SCREW IT AND DIDN'T WANT TO?!!?!?!?!?

You cannot possibly be serious with this.  Come on now.  

Think of the DV victims you have represented.  You know damn well the cycle in play here. 

[jojoandleo]

Oct 9, 2015 10:42:31 GMT -5 @cse1960 said:

I'm sorry, but my empathy ends with the baby. She failed to testify; and that asshole who put not only her life in danger but that of her child, got off on a misdemeanor and served 16 days instead of being convicted of a greater crime and being removed from the child's life. She told the prosecutor to put her in jail, she didn't care, she wasn't going to testify.
I was a prosecutor for a while, and it's infuriating to see people use the system like this. Sure, call for help, get the police involved, but don't let anything HAPPEN. This judge would have had her own ass on a platter in the same newspaper if she'd done nothing and the child's father came over on day 17 and hurt the baby; I can see that headline too. "Liberal judge lets father kill baby" or "Injured baby falls through system cracks" or whatever. She had an order to appear and testify about a case she called in for protection for herself and a helpless child, and said screw it she didn't want to, so now this man is free to hurt her, the baby, and anyone else he chooses to.

This shows such a lack of understanding about domestic violence.  She was probably TERRIFIED.  He threatened her with a knife.  He may have made threats if she DID testify.  She deserve COMPASSION not contempt.  I am actually really sad to see this coming from you.

All the judge did was guarantee she will NEVER call the police again.  She will never reach out for help.  She absolutely did not "use the system."  She NEEDED help from the police.  They provided it.  End of story. 

She left and she took her kid out of harm.  She did a lot more than many victims do.  This whole response reeks of victim shaming.  Especially with the "using the system" BS.  Blech.

[lovelyshoes]

]
Additionally, there are all kinds of other emotions wrapped up in it, making it terribly challenging for them to separate love from fear and anger.

This woman needs counseling and support services - not jail.

Furthermore, this sends a terrible message to other victims of abuse. The judge was wrong.[/quote]

Exactly this. There is so much involved in dv matters. This woman needs help. It's not easy to break out of the cycle.

[lilafowler]

Buy

[jeaniebueller]

Oct 9, 2015 11:03:00 GMT -5 tators said:

Does Florida not press charges as a state?

This shouldn't have ever been an issue in the first place. She shouldn't have needed to testify. There should have been documentation from law enforcement.

Even if it's the state pressing charges, in most cases the victim still needs to testify at the trial. Right of confrontation and all that. There are exceptions, but not likely.

[zoomzoom]

Oct 9, 2015 11:03:00 GMT -5 tators said:

Does Florida not press charges as a state?

This shouldn't have ever been an issue in the first place. She shouldn't have needed to testify. There should have been documentation from law enforcement.

In Kansas, it's the state that presses charges.  The victim doesn't get to decide. It's one way to take blame off the victim so the abuser can't blame her for pressing charges.  When I had to appear at my abuser's arraignment, the only people in the room were attorneys and victims.  All of the abusers were on closed circuit camera so they couldn't view their victims.  This woman should not have been jailed.  Period.

ETA: deal was made with the prosecutor so there was no trial so I'm not sure if I would have been required to be there or not.

[slcjess]

On the radio today, they said that she told them she didn't appear because the last time he was jailed he wasn't able to pay her child support and she lost her place to live (I skimmed responses, so sorry if this came up). I feel so devastated for her, I cannot imagine having to choose between letting my abuser go free or providing a home and food for my baby,

[jigsy]

Did we all watch John Oliver's piece about public defenders...the bit that was just perfection was in the reading of the "accurate" Miranda rights and they cited the crazy judge who wouldn't let a public defender in the court room.

Police: "Where do you you think that happened"
Arestee: "Uhh...I don't know...
Police: "Just Guess"
Arestee: "Uhhh...Florida?"
Police: "Of course it was Florida"

[kirra]

The system is there to be used- as many police calls as it takes until she's ready to leave for good.

[Deleted]

The judge was out of line with her comments, and one night would have been more appropriate, but I am generally with @cse1960 on this one. The guy walked because she no showed. There is no indication she was willing to appear by closed circuit television, or even tried to.

There's plenty of blame to go around- the DA should have offered close circuit as an option, though we don't know for a fact that they didn't; victim-witness services should have been more robust; the woman should have been given her own lawyer- but 99% or the time the victim won't testify because they get back together with the abuser. And I completely understand the frustration with that when there is a child victim.

[penelope]

Knowing how DV completely fucks with a person's perspective on things, the cycle of abuse, the fear that the person being abused feels, and the confusion of facing the fact that the one they love is actually a bad person (because in the end, it's always their fault they got the shit beat out of them. It's never the abuser's fault, and the person being abused lives a life of guilt and shame for all of it) I don't blame her for not showing up.

Anyone that doesn't see that has obviously never been in those shoes and needs some serious education on just what abuse does to someone. It is much, much more than bruises and broken bones. Those heal.

[starlily]

Pretty much everything elle and @cse1960 said.

Holding a victim in contempt of court is usually a measure of last resort, but in light of the fact here that this woman's refusal to testify affected the state's ability to hold the defendant accountable for his actions toward the baby, I can see why this judge made this decision. The 3 days might be too many, and I do think the comments about anxiety were out of line, but not the decision itself.

And pp who thinks victims calling up the prosecutor to say "Screw it (or more commonly, Fuck you), I'm not testifying. Go ahead and put out a warrant!" is a gross exaggeration --- it actually does happen pretty often, and not just in DV cases.

[miso]

The other lawyers already said everything.

Addendum: Sorry, I meant just @cse1960, elle, and starlily.

[papie]

Fuck this bullshit. I don't care how the law works. I know how depression works though and fuck that shit.

[sparkythelawyer]

Legally I get that they had the right to do it. And I absolutely understand the importance of showing up to court when handed a subpoena to do so. And as I've never done criminal work I don't know whether or not they could have realistically proceeded without her. Yes, she should have shown up at court when she was compelled to do so.

I just think that there had to be other ways to express their displeasure than three days in jail. I don't think they'll get what they want out of the actions the judge took. This won't do anything to help curtail DV. It will just help women stay silent. It sucks.

[miso]

Oct 9, 2015 10:55:53 GMT -5 @tambcat said:

Even if the judge felt she had to hold her in contempt, 3 nights in jail is pretty extreme. I don't see a good reason for that. And the judge's comments about anxiety were also unnecessary. FWIW I can't imagine that happening here. I feel the need to defend my little part of FLorida. lol

I do agree with this. Unacceptable.

[miso]

Oct 9, 2015 11:35:40 GMT -5 sparkythelawyer said:

Legally I get that they had the right to do it. And I absolutely understand the importance of showing up to court when handed a subpoena to do so. And as I've never done criminal work I don't know whether or not they could have realistically proceeded without her. Yes, she should have shown up at court when she was compelled to do so.

I just think that there had to be other ways to express their displeasure than three days in jail. I don't think they'll get what they want out of the actions the judge took. This won't do anything to help curtail DV. It will just help women stay silent. It sucks.

As a lawyer, you should also know that consequences are generally equally applied. There typically aren't exceptions or new methods of punishment concocted according to every circumstance.

If you want to be angry at somebody, be angry at the woman's shitty counsel who didn't MAKE HER SHOW UP. Seriously. Rules are rules. They're not impossible to follow. Any lawyer worth anything would've made sure the woman went to court when she was ordered to do so.

@cse1960 would never let her client fail to appear. Ever. And, frankly, neither would any of us who have liked her posts.