NCPER - WWYD Family+Vaping question

[wawa]

Last thanksgiving we did with my whole family (year before last) my brother and SIL vaped pretty much the whole time.  In the kitchen, at the table, etc.   I hate it.  It's eleventybillion times better than actually smoking for sure - and I'm thrilled for my brother that he's found a healthier alternative because he was a HEAVY smoker.  But at the same time, I'd rather not have what amounts to a talking smoke machine at our thanksgiving table.  It smells unpleasant, the sight of clouds of vapor drifting over my dinner is ick, and I will admit to being skeptical that it's TOTALLY SAFE for my small children to breath the second hand vapor.  (Particulates, trace nicotine, etc.   There have been contradictory studies on this.  I dunno where the science stands at the moment because it does feel like a lot of regulatory agencies are being a bit kneejerk alarmist about it.)

The venue is not anybody's actual home - it's neutral territory so there's no "host" to set rules on shit like this.  Unspoken rule to date has been that there is no cig. smoking in the main part of the house, but what is essentially a giant enclosed porch is fair game.  So there is a climate controlled and furnished area for smokers, they don't have to freeze their balls off outside in November.  But nobody has ever set any sort of rule on vaping, and the assumption was made last time without any discussion that it was fine everywhere.  I didn't like it then, but I just bit my tongue because I hadn't seen my brother in ages and didn't want to be a bitch.

Turkey day planning email just kicked off the other day.  Confirmed that brother is attending.  I'd like to request up front that there not be any vaping in the kitchen/living/dining room area.  Is this unreasonable?  If not, how would you word it?  I mentioned it to my mom on the phone the other day and she said she also doesn't love it with how constant it is, but I got the impression that while she would rather they didn't,  left to her own devices she wouldn't say anything.

[epphd]

I would just ask candidly - hey, the data are not out as to whether it is safe for kids to breathe vapor fumes. For the kids, I'd like to request that you take it out to the porch. Simple as that. You are not asking him to not vape, just saying you don't like it at the dinner table. Hell, make a blanket "no electronics" policy in certain rooms. No phones, no tablets, no e-cigs.

As for the science - I am familiar with recent studies that found that in particular, teenagers who vape are 8 times more likely to become regular smokers of cigarettes. I can link the study if you want it

[MrsAxilla]

Totally reasonable. Most places ban vaping the same as smoking, so I'm sure the idea will not be a shock to them. I would just be direct but nice - "can we keep the vaping outside or in the smoking room this year? Thanks!!"

[MrsAxilla]

Oct 12, 2015 12:25:27 GMT -5 epphd said:

I would just ask candidly - hey, the data are not out as to whether it is safe for kids to breathe vapor fumes. For the kids, I'd like to request that you take it out to the porch. Simple as that. You are not asking him to not vape, just saying you don't like it at the dinner table. Hell, make a blanket "no electronics" policy in certain rooms. No phones, no tablets, no e-cigs.

As for the science - I am familiar with recent studies that found that in particular, teenagers who vape are 8 times more likely to become regular smokers of cigarettes. I can link the study if you want it

See, I was going to suggest not bringing data into it.  The last thing she wants is to get into a research war.  Although I do like the bit about teenagers.  Maybe just "I don't want my kids to be around it."

[josieposy]

Totally reasonable.

[epphd]

Oct 12, 2015 12:34:20 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

Oct 12, 2015 12:25:27 GMT -5 epphd said:

I would just ask candidly - hey, the data are not out as to whether it is safe for kids to breathe vapor fumes. For the kids, I'd like to request that you take it out to the porch. Simple as that. You are not asking him to not vape, just saying you don't like it at the dinner table. Hell, make a blanket "no electronics" policy in certain rooms. No phones, no tablets, no e-cigs.

As for the science - I am familiar with recent studies that found that in particular, teenagers who vape are 8 times more likely to become regular smokers of cigarettes. I can link the study if you want it

See, I was going to suggest not bringing data into it.  The last thing she wants is to get into a research war.  Although I do like the bit about teenagers.  Maybe just "I don't want my kids to be around it."

I agree- but you can be armed in case he comes with the "research shows it's totally safe!" I would agree though that most people would likely just be polite and NOT do something that another person has said they find objectionable -- just, you know, to be nice

[awick14]

We don't allow people to smoke or vap in our house. When people vap in others houses I try and stay on the other side of the room. I defiantly wouldn't seem it safe, it needs to be around a lot longer before and conclusions are made. (At least that's my opinion.)

I would send an email out asking if everyone would be ok with vaping only in the designated smoking areas. (But I would also voice my opinions on smokers smoking in an enclosed porch, as it's not really different then smoking in a back room or anything.)

Smoking is a hot topic with me though, so I'm very vocal about it.

[StrawberryBlondie]

I'd be a bitch and demand that the same rules as for cigs apply.

I'm vocal about this crap. Of people smoke at holidays, they take their asses outside. I don't care what the weather is.

[pamela]

No different that cigarettes in my opinion as far as where. While it smells less, you are still exhaling part of the drug that is the reason for you to be using it so anyone else is breathing that in. Not ok.

[fumbalina]

Most people I know like the vanilla ones, and I am allergic to vanilla so I ask them to refrain from vaping around me because I do not want to break out in a rash. There are other flavors that make me wheeze as well, so even if it is "all natural" it does not mean no one will have a reaction.

[miniroller]

Hmmm. I'm really pleased we haven't experienced people who continuously vape, but we have friends who have expressed similar issues with his brother. I'm not sure if they think it's suitable to vape at the table/ everywhere all the time, because at least they're not smoking, so nobody should care/ be bothered. Or if they depend on constantly vaping to avoid cigarettes? Of course, it could be both or somewhat of a mental addiction.

Depending on your relationship, I'd maybe try to figure this out. If answer is the latter, sorry, you might have to cut back on time spent together. But if the former, I think letting them know that it does still bother your family, & you'd really appreciate it if they could vape in another room &/or outside. They might not realize it's creating a problem, since they're applauded (applaud themselves) for not smoking. GL OP!

[WanderingWinoZ]

I'd also treat it as a behavioral thing- you don't really want your kids seeing that behavior or looking like it's cool with or approved of by everybody.

good luck!

[kristie]

My husband does it. I have had to remind him repeatedly that while it is supposedly safer, it doesn't change the fact that people don't want a huge cloud of anything blown in their face. Common courtesy. I can't stand the stupid vanilla smell. And I swear that crap leaves a film on everything. His phone screen and inside car windows are foggy. He thinks I am delusional. I'm not.

[omgzombies]

I'd just say that the smell really bothers you and ask if they can keep it outside. Simple as that. It keeps judgement about the behavior out of it, and so there's less likelihood of someone getting defensive over it.

"Hey brother, sorry to be a pain, but the vaping smell really bothers me. Can you do me a huge favor and just keep it outside this year? Thanks!"

[Aquatica]

We started going to a friends house for the holidays (since it costs too much to travel home for the holidays) and vape smoke makes my asthma act up just like cigarette smoke. Anyone who vapes is asked to do so on another room or outside.

I don't think you're asking a lot by having the vapers smoke in a designated area. Just because it's not a cigarette doesn't mean the smoke isn't annoying, or the smell.

[2curlydogs]

I agree with everyone else - it should have the same rules as cigs.

I was in a meeting once and someone pulled out their vape and started "smoking". I was like "What the hell are you doing?" and they were all shocked I protested. It's a weird thing.

[meshaliuknits]

Tell them I said they are uncool and look like they're smoking iPods. (ttt)




But, really, I would expect the places where food is cooked and consumed to be smoke free. Unless you are cooking with smoke.

[sparkythelawyer]

My MIL is also one who vapes now, basically because we threw down about "Oh, yes, you WILL quit smoking once the baby is born" so like you I am hesitant to get too heavy handed where the "no-vaping" comes in to play. I know its not perfect, but at least I can now walk upstairs at their house without choking. I'll take it.

That said, I think it is perfectly ok to ask for them to vape somewhere NOT where you all are eating. Nobody wants to eat near a fog machine.

[heyjude]

The state of Ca says the secondhand exposure is bad:

www.californiahealthline.org/capitol-desk/2015/1/public-health-director-calls-ecigarettes-a-serious-risk-to-californians-health

[downtoearth]

I would pull an asthma/reaction thing with my kid as the excuse and send it in an email so they can vent and complain behind my back, but hopefully I won't have to confront them over the turkey. Do you have a vulnerable-lung kid that you can use as the excuse?

ETA: Oh and AAP doesn't like e-cigs either - health risks are real, too easy for kids to get nicotine with candy flavors, inviting, and normalizes smoking - www2.aap.org/richmondcenter/pdfs/ENDShandout.pdf

[pixy0stix]

Oct 12, 2015 13:53:43 GMT -5 heyjude said:

The state of Ca says the secondhand exposure is bad:

www.californiahealthline.org/capitol-desk/2015/1/public-health-director-calls-ecigarettes-a-serious-risk-to-californians-health

Yes, but tbf, CA also says driving your car will give you cancer.

[heyjude]

Oct 12, 2015 13:59:37 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Oct 12, 2015 13:53:43 GMT -5 heyjude said:

The state of Ca says the secondhand exposure is bad:

www.californiahealthline.org/capitol-desk/2015/1/public-health-director-calls-ecigarettes-a-serious-risk-to-californians-health

Yes, but tbf, CA also says driving your car will give you cancer.

True.

[wawa]

Oct 12, 2015 13:56:54 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

I would pull an asthma/reaction thing with my kid as the excuse and send it in an email so they can vent and complain behind my back, but hopefully I won't have to confront them over the turkey. Do you have a vulnerable-lung kid that you can use as the excuse?

ETA: Oh and AAP doesn't like e-cigs either - health risks are real, too easy for kids to get nicotine with candy flavors, inviting, and normalizes smoking - www2.aap.org/richmondcenter/pdfs/ENDShandout.pdf

Not to my knowledge. 
There's only so much kid guilt I can bring to bear since they have two of their own and it starts to just sound like judging their choices.

I just sent a planning email stuffed full of logistical issues and a preliminary menu and just had a line in there of "can I make a request that there not be any vaping in the kitchen/living/dining area?" as just one of many items among "so, do we need to get a camper again this year or can we still cram in three bedrooms?" and "are the other local family members coming or doing their inlaws turkey day and joining us for the after party?"

[msmerymac]

Will you still be able to blame post-partum... something? "My sinuses have really been acting up since pregnancy, so I was wondering if everyone would be okay implementing a rule about vaping only outside or on the back porch?"

[msmerymac]

Actually, I think that was good. You shouldn't have to reach for an excuse as to why.

[wawa]

Oct 12, 2015 14:39:23 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

Actually, I think that was good. You shouldn't have to reach for an excuse as to why.

yeah, that's what I talked myself into.  I don't want to debate it - it's a perfectly reasonable request.  IF it's a problem we can work it out at that point, but I decided there was no reason to muddy the waters with excuses that just invite a rebuttal.

[foundmylazybum]

Oct 12, 2015 13:20:23 GMT -5 kristie said:

My husband does it. I have had to remind him repeatedly that while it is supposedly safer, it doesn't change the fact that people don't want a huge cloud of anything blown in their face. Common courtesy. I can't stand the stupid vanilla smell. And I swear that crap leaves a film on everything. His phone screen and inside car windows are foggy. He thinks I am delusional. I'm not.

I think this is a great reason! Overall, I think of vaping as the substitute for smoking (or dipping) and c'mon now: You couldn't smoke over the turkey, so why do you think that vaping is now allowed?

[shopgirl07]

I wouldn't go if there was vaping in the house. It bothers me so much.

[curmudgeon]

Perfectly reasonable request, hope they don't throw a fit. I always ask before I vape in someone's house, and would go outside if a guest in my house mentioned it bothered them (except with my pregnant friend, even though I used to vape around them, now I always go outside). I can't imagine it's as harmful as smoking, but it is still exposing everyone to nicotine and it's resonable for them to get their fix elsewhere as was expected when they smoked.

Regarding pp: yes, it does leave a nasty film on car windows. On that note, I noticed today that my windows are hazy again so I get to detail...again, damn it.