Baby Friendly hospitals: 1) have a written BFing policy 2) train staff to support this policy 3) inform patients of the benefits of BFing 4) Help Mother's initiate BFing within an hour of birth 5) Show Mother's how to BF and support Lactation when seperated from baby 6) Give nothing but BM unless medically indicated 7) Practice Rooming In 24/7. 8) Encourage on demand feeding 9) No pacifers or artificial nipples 10) Establish BFing support groups
Is it no pacifiers at all, or unless parent has given ok, or pacifiers can be given by the parent in their room, but not allowed in the nursery?
The pdf says Mom should be counseled about the potential effects of pacis on BFing and the problem leading to asking investigated and addressed. If Mom still wants to use a Paci the counseling should be documented. So I read it as can be given if parent wants with red tape first
Also, this thread is making me thankful for homebirths because there is no one there pressuring me to do things I don't want to do or judging me for how I feed my baby. You guys are making hospitals sound terrible.
Yep. Don't have to worry about people judging for whether or not you breastfeed, just have to deal with the people telling you you deserve to have your kids taken away for making such a terrible choice by having your baby at home.
I really wish people would just mind their own business when it comes to how women birth and care for their babies.
Nah, I've had both a home birth and 2 hospital births. The Baby Friendly hospital was annoying in some respects, but they saved my baby's life when an emergency arose, the kind of sudden emergency that doesn't give you time to transfer, and overall I was happy with our experience there. I'm not planning any more babies but if I had another, it would be a hospital birth for sure. To each their own.
Is it no pacifiers at all, or unless parent has given ok, or pacifiers can be given by the parent in their room, but not allowed in the nursery?
The pdf says Mom should be counseled about the potential effects of pacis on BFing and the problem leading to asking investigated and addressed. If Mom still wants to use a Paci the counseling should be documented. So I read it as can be given if parent wants with red tape first
OMG I would be so angry if I had to be counseled before giving a GD pacifier. NO.
The pdf says Mom should be counseled about the potential effects of pacis on BFing and the problem leading to asking investigated and addressed. If Mom still wants to use a Paci the counseling should be documented. So I read it as can be given if parent wants with red tape first
OMG I would be so angry if I had to be counseled before giving a GD pacifier. NO.
To be fair my BF hospital's 'counseling' was 'baby could develop nipple confusion but it's rare do you still want a Paci?' And I had one for DD, it took 5 minutes (3 of which was the nurse going to get the Paci)
From the anecdotes I have heard on this board, that is a really sanitized list of what these hospitals do.
Meh? I do not doubt that there are hospitals and medical professionals that take it too far and situations where these guidelines lead to less than ideal situations, you don't actually have to be staffed with a bunch of formula shaming assholes to get this designation. My hospital was fine. *shrug* keep in mind the horror stories make for better posts and are more memorable.
But I can totally tell a story about a non baby friendly hospital sabotaging my sister's attempt at bfing her first. Also her attempt at a med free birth. Works both ways.
Can't we agree that neither if these are ok? We should be striving for hospitals that support mom and baby, and not just be "meh," because there are sucky experiences on the other end of the spectrum.
Meh? I do not doubt that there are hospitals and medical professionals that take it too far and situations where these guidelines lead to less than ideal situations, you don't actually have to be staffed with a bunch of formula shaming assholes to get this designation. My hospital was fine. *shrug* keep in mind the horror stories make for better posts and are more memorable.
But I can totally tell a story about a non baby friendly hospital sabotaging my sister's attempt at bfing her first. Also her attempt at a med free birth. Works both ways.
Can't we agree that neither if these are ok? We should be striving for hospitals that support mom and baby, and not just be "meh," because there are sucky experiences on the other end of the spectrum.
I decided it was overboard when a lactation consultant told me that if my mom had breastfed me I wouldn't have all the health issues I have.
Not that it really matters, but my mom breastfed me exclusively until six months (lol my grandmother still brings up how my mom wouldn't give us rice cereal or baby food until six months) and continued until I self weaned at about 18 months. She bf all of us, and all of us have major health issues.
Breastfeeding isn't the magic protective blanket some people think it is.
Also, pumping sucks. I don't know anyone who didn't hate pumping.
I didn't. I expected to, but really, really didn't.
It got a whole lot better one I realized that I could watch a full sitcom (22 minutes without commericials) twice a day, or an episode of grey's anatomy in a day of pumping.
I never understand what makes it ok to even mention how someone else is feeding her baby. Is the baby fed? Great, you're doing it right. I breastfed because I wanted to and it was easy for me, and I had a schedule where I could pump at work. I nursed both kids well into their third year, and you can be sure I got some comments on that, but I just don't care. My baby, my choice. What is so hard about that?
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
I didn't. I expected to, but really, really didn't.
It got a whole lot better one I realized that I could watch a full sitcom (22 minutes without commericials) twice a day, or an episode of grey's anatomy in a day of pumping.
Yep. Time each day where no one could bother me for 15-30 min? Yes, please.
I breastfed until my kid was about 14/15 months. She pretty much self-weaned. For the most part, it was easy for me, so I did it. I had no qualms with giving her a bottle of formula when I just didn't feel like it. She had no trouble going back & forth. I did bottles of pumped milk a lot when she was really little and I'm 100% positive it helped her latch.
I appreciated this. BFing is a wonderful and important thing. But we need to make sure it's not being sold as this amazing thing that will change your baby's life FOREVER and your child will be SO SUPERIOR if you breastfeed. Which is how it is marketed.
My hospital is in the process of becoming baby friendly. So DS1 got a pacifier, DS2 did not. They had a LC on staff when DS1 was born and she came in twice but I had to ask to see her. With DS2 they asked me before my csection what I planned to do, and I received lots of praise for just planning to BF. The LC came in twice a day without being asked.
With DS1, I got a small case of formula upon discharge (nothing was said, just like "oh here.") with DS2 I got a manual pump.
I think had my experience with DS1 been what it was with DS2 I actually would have said "eff it." There was a lot of pressure. I was okay with it bc I HAD BFed DS1 for 15 months and supplemented with formula a great deal. So I was not wed to the idea of BFing exclusively. But with DS1 I was so exhausted post surgery, so emotionally wiped out, and it was just awful. The best part was when the head nursery nurse walked into my room, took one look at me and said "we are taking the baby. You sleep." So any additional pressure just would have broken me I think. I realize that sounds extreme but I was such a mess.
I am worried about a potential #3 bc I won't deliver in a hospital without a well baby nursery. Not after a csection. And I love my OBs and they only deliver at one hospital. So it's definitely a worry.
When "baby friendly" makes moms not want to deliver there, something is off. There has to be a middle road.
Some hospitals will have an area where the nurses will take a baby for a few hours to let moms get ready. It's not advertised as a nursery, but it may still be there. It's probably worth asking.
Post by mrsdewinter on Oct 18, 2015 19:43:32 GMT -5
Pumping is awful for me. I cannot get enough anywhere near enough milk out, even with a hospital grade pump. There's no way I could have been a working mom, even part-time, and not given my babies formula.
I went on a Girl Scouts overnight with my daughter last spring and even with a double electric pump, I spent the whole trip with rock hard throbbing breasts. I spent what felt like half the night sitting on the restroom floor trying to get milk out and still woke up soaked in milk. And I missed seeing my kid meet a dolphin because I was stuck with the stupid pump. Breastfeeding is great but sometimes it blows.
Post by laurenpetro on Oct 18, 2015 20:21:36 GMT -5
I loved pumping for the most part. I had a great supply and it was easy. I suspect I could have easily BFd but will never know. Know why? I didn't want to. So I didn't.
I BF because it's been easy this time, I enjoy it and I don't work so DS2 is always with me. But I think that if I was working I'd probably be on formula.
I desperately wanted to BF DS1. I tried and failed miserably for a number of reasons, but the main reason was that I didn't know it was actually difficult. He couldn't latch and I didn't produce much, and after meeting with LC's in the hospital they sent me home with a few cans of formula.
DS2 was born at a baby-friendly hospital and that turned out to be excellent for us. The nurses asked me if I wanted to BF beforehand, instead of forcing anything on me. Everyone was helpful and encouraging, which is what I needed.
wawa a baby-friendly hospital has every l &d nurse certified as LC's. They are room-in only and don't have nurseries. They don't give formula samples automatically and they make sure mom feels confident with the latch (if she chooses to bf) before leaving.
Agreed. IMO, the baby friendly designation is not caught up to the current science regarding what makes BFing successful, particularly around pacifier use (the hospitals aren't supposed to supply them after babies are born). I brought one in with me when my second kid was born because it was a lifesaver the first time without a single ill effect.
. Yes, the no pacifier rule is one of the things I was thinking of. Geez, let the mom soothe her baby without having the kid latched on like a lamprey every minute.
Another one that really bothers me is no longer having a well child nursery, which is how the BF hospital I delivered at was. I was fortunate with my third that I had a very easy recovery and my husband there too help so I didn't need the nursery. But women who have a difficult delivery or a CS or no family to stay with them should be able to send their baby to the nursery if they wish, so they can rest and recover. It's not fair to expect mothers to recover from birth and no allow them a real break from their babies and I think it could even be dangerous. I don't know what I would have done if I couldn't send my baby to the nursery after my emergency CS with baby #1. Fortunately that hospital wasn't Baby Friendly then--but it is now.
I think this varies by hospital. My hospital didn't have a nursery but all yhe nurses were adamant about offering to keep the baby at the desk or just walk around with the baby for a minute so mom can shower or sleep. We saw babies hanging out in their cribs at the nurse desk, too.
When I had a section with Leo they did not have a nursery. But they also had no problem taking him for a couple hours at night. I can't imagine not at least getting one 3 hour chunk of sleep after having fucking surgery. And it wasn't good enough to have H take him because they were still in the room.
It is a bit cruel what we expect women to endure after birth when you really think about it.
OMG I would be so angry if I had to be counseled before giving a GD pacifier. NO.
To be fair my BF hospital's 'counseling' was 'baby could develop nipple confusion but it's rare do you still want a Paci?' And I had one for DD, it took 5 minutes (3 of which was the nurse going to get the Paci)
Yeah I think the "counseling" sounds much worse than it is. The hearing test lady came in and asked if she could give DS2 a paci for the test, I said yes, she asked if i was aware of nipple confusion. That was it. And he kept the paci and not another nurse said anything.
Neither of the hospitals where I delivered my kids gave me the option of getting a few hours rest while a nurse or the nursery took the baby. It was all me, the whole time.
TBH, when I look back, especially with SST, my first baby, I feel really bitter about the complete lack of support we were given - everything from the hospital to the pediatrician to society at large. I was literally on the verge of a nervous breakdown - having powerful thoughts while driving about veering the car off the road or into traffic, some crazy stuff. I was so, so desperate for help and every time I reached out, I got none. I still don't know how we made it through those first few months. And it's a true miracle that my marriage survived it too.
people told me "you won't want to send the baby to the nursery anyway, you'll just want to soak up all that time!" they were wrong. Two to three hours where I didn't have to either listen to baby cries, OR worry the baby had just died when s/he did go silent ...
childbirth is exhausting and often results in a night of no sleep during labor. So you're sleep deprived to begin with and then you're supposed to stay awake another 48 hours at the hospital?
First, I think this is the first time I've been truly annoyed by aw's comments. But whatever.
Second, I hate the pressure we get to breastfeed. I attempted to breastfeed DS. He was crap at it. His latch was crap. He had a tongue tie that we didn't discover until he was 4 months old. I had breastfed him up until then while also supplementing with formula. I saw lactation consultants and did all kinds of things to get him to nurse. I was so emotional about not being able to do this one thing. It was awful and I attribute a lot of my feelings around it to the immense pressure from my mom community. Needless to say, I dropped that community like a hot potato. I ended up formula feeding DS from 5 months on. He's perfectly healthy and happy. What's more is that I started to ENJOY feeding my baby. Bottles are easy peasy. I HATE the argument that breastfeeding is just easier. It's not for some people and fuck you for implying that breastfeeding is the "lazy" way.
DD was amazing at breastfeeding. Girlfriend just got it. She had a great latch. She didn't have a tongue tie. By the time I had her, I had worked through all my hang ups about being an amazing breastfeeder. I figured I'd give it a shot. If it went well, great. If not, than formula it is. I nursed her and fed her formula from day 1. Why? Because I don't really like to breastfeed. I don't like the way it feels. I don't like heavy, leaky breasts. I don't like being my child's ONLY source of food. I hate pumping. I can afford formula so I chose to do a mix of both. I stopped nursing her all together when she was 8 months old. Guess what? She's perfectly healthy and normal.
I think it's bullshit for WIC to undercut nutritional resources for moms who choose to formula feed. There are any number of reasons that a mother may not breastfeed and I don't think that choice is anyone's but hers. To give her fewer resources because she makes a choice to formula feed is crap.
people told me "you won't want to send the baby to the nursery anyway, you'll just want to soak up all that time!" they were wrong. Two to three hours where I didn't have to either listen to baby cries, OR worry the baby had just died when s/he did go silent ...
childbirth is exhausting and often results in a night of no sleep during labor. So you're sleep deprived to begin with and then you're supposed to stay awake another 48 hours at the hospital?
Both hospitals I gave birth at did not have nurseries and it was awful to be 12 hours out from a c section and for both of us to be up all night caring for a newborn. I was bitched about this at length on these boards, but suffice it to say that we could not wait to be discharged.
Post by fortnightlily on Oct 19, 2015 8:01:03 GMT -5
I had a c-section too, and though my hospital had a nursery it as "baby-friendly" and they discouraged its use if the baby was healthy. They took him on night two for one 2-hour stretch, so we could 'sleep', but I think the nurse still interrupted me during that window at one point to give meds or take my vitals. Grrrr.
Agreed. IMO, the baby friendly designation is not caught up to the current science regarding what makes BFing successful, particularly around pacifier use (the hospitals aren't supposed to supply them after babies are born). I brought one in with me when my second kid was born because it was a lifesaver the first time without a single ill effect.
. Yes, the no pacifier rule is one of the things I was thinking of. Geez, let the mom soothe her baby without having the kid latched on like a lamprey every minute.
Another one that really bothers me is no longer having a well child nursery, which is how the BF hospital I delivered at was. I was fortunate with my third that I had a very easy recovery and my husband there too help so I didn't need the nursery. But women who have a difficult delivery or a CS or no family to stay with them should be able to send their baby to the nursery if they wish, so they can rest and recover. It's not fair to expect mothers to recover from birth and no allow them a real break from their babies and I think it could even be dangerous. I don't know what I would have done if I couldn't send my baby to the nursery after my emergency CS with baby #1. Fortunately that hospital wasn't Baby Friendly then--but it is now.
I am so fucking glad that both hospitals where I delivered had nurseries AND my nurses were super awesome about taking my babies for a few hours. With DS (my first) I agonized over sending him to the nursery, but getting just those three hours of sleep before he needed to nurse again were a great boost to me.
With DD, my husband had to stay at home with our son so I was in the hospital alone. I actually loved it to be honest. Just me and the baby and bad reality TV. I sent DD to the nursery each night of my stay so I could sleep. It was GREAT! My nurses were totally awesome about it. They were also super cool about formula and pacifiers, etc. No shame. Lots of "you do you."
Both times my hospital stays were wonderful because of the nurses I had. Most of them were moms themselves and had been-there-done-that. No one gave me shit about the breastfeeding thing. They were all tremendously helpful, supportive, and empathetic.
I know some people here are from the Carolinas--has anyone heard about Chapel Hill and Carborro becoming breastfeeding friendly cities? I think the program is terribly formula shame-y.
It sounds like a good program until you realize that it discourages any advertisements/sales of formula, wants formula placed on non-preferential shelves, and provide literature where formula is sold showing the benefits of breastfeeding. It also says that pregnant women need to be warned about the risks of unnecessary formula feeding. It's so offensive, IMO: www.townofchapelhill.org/Home/ShowDocument?id=28918
I'm not a fan of the Baby Friendly Hospital initiative either. I had my third baby at one and it seemed like a lot of their policies just make things harder for moms who are recovering from childbirth.
Yes, I hate that some hospitals are discourage the nursery for healthy babies. I just had a baby, I need some rest.
The hospital I had DD at had a pro-bf message that flashed on the screen every so often, I believe it said Breast is best. I felt bad for all the moms who chose to FF. At that point I wasn't even sure that I would be successful at breast feeding and here the hospital was already making me feel judged.
First, I think this is the first time I've been truly annoyed by aw's comments. But whatever.
[
Tit for tat. Pun intended.
Yes, how annoying of me to say that even though it's easy for me, I recognize that it isn't for others and would probably make the same decision to FF if in their shoes. How annoying!
Listen, it IS easier for women like me. I'm not the only one in this thread who said that. It isn't easier for you, cool. You have your reasons for FF, I have my readons for BF.
ETA: And it just makes sense to allow someone who uses less WIC money on one thing to use it on sonething else. If a person on WIC is dealing with a food allergy with their child and can't buy milk or bread, the money they don't use on that should be allowed to be used for more eggs or more of sonething else instead. If they aren't using the mobey for formula, they should be allowed to use it for something else, like baby food. If they don't want to feed their baby infant cereal, they shoild be able to get more feesh produce. That just makes sense to me.
people told me "you won't want to send the baby to the nursery anyway, you'll just want to soak up all that time!" they were wrong. Two to three hours where I didn't have to either listen to baby cries, OR worry the baby had just died when s/he did go silent ...
childbirth is exhausting and often results in a night of no sleep during labor. So you're sleep deprived to begin with and then you're supposed to stay awake another 48 hours at the hospital?
Both hospitals I gave birth at did not have nurseries and it was awful to be 12 hours out from a c section and for both of us to be up all night caring for a newborn. I was bitched about this at length on these boards, but suffice it to say that we could not wait to be discharged.
Noooo that's just cruel. I loved the nursery but it also seemed like every time we sent ds a nurse would come in and poke me or I would need my dose of pain meds. Now if they actually left me completely alone for those 4 hrs he was allowed at one time in the nursery it would have been heaven.
When I had a section with Leo they did not have a nursery. But they also had no problem taking him for a couple hours at night. I can't imagine not at least getting one 3 hour chunk of sleep after having fucking surgery. And it wasn't good enough to have H take him because they were still in the room.
It is a bit cruel what we expect women to endure after birth when you really think about it.
And all for the sake of the bottom line too.
(Hospitals might pretend the reason they're cutting nurseries is to encourage breastfeeding but let's face it, it's to save money under cover of being "baby friendly").