Why So Many Minority Millennials Can't Get Ahead

[ttt]

80%+ of black parents expect their children to support them?? Can we talk about this? This stuns me - is this a cultural thing I've just been oblivious to?

[penguingrrl]

That was a really interesting read. Thinking about it now, most of my friends did not work in college and accrued no debt to get their degrees and many of the minority students I know did work (I worked and am nowhere near paying off undergrad despite having a partial scholarship at a public school) and I have no idea if they had loans. I had never considered how starkly a lot of that cut across racial lines, but it maps pretty clearly with my experience.

[LadySusan]

"20 percent of wealth can be attributed to formal and informal gifts from family members, especially parents."

I like this part especially.  This is the part my relatives conveniently forget whenever they get into a bootstraps frame of mind.

[orangeblossom]

Nov 30, 2015 18:27:44 GMT -5 ttt said:

80%+ of black parents expect their children to support them?? Can we talk about this? This stuns me - is this a cultural thing I've just been oblivious to?

I wish I didn't have homework, so I could really get into this.

I think it's cultural in a different way than what one traditionally thinks of as a culture that's raised to support their parents.  For some it may be more tradition, like the oldest daughter or only daughter knows that as an adult they will have to take care of their parents, even though a son and his family would be better suited to do it.

I think in black families the expectation is different, in that there may be one person or a few people that are more solvent, and that may be their child or some other younger person, and it's unspoken that they're supposed to carry the rest of the family.  I find it especially common in single parent households, where either there is only one son or they're the oldest child, period.

Some of it can be guilt they heap on themselves, "Mama sacrificed so much for me as a single mother, so now it's my turn to help her OR if could be mama saying, "You know how much I sacrificed for you, you need to help me."

I've talked about and asked for advice on here about this before.  On one hand, I don't think we have to subscribe to the cultures where the younger generations take care of the older ones, and that's known from birth.  I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but it doesn't really fit into the "boot strap" model of the US.  On the other hand, sometimes I find the distance one can put between a parent and their finance is too much.  Like what is the happy medium.

DH is that person in his family.  It's trying.   Something I learned here a long time ago, is different doesn't mean bad.  Supporting a parent in my family, lest they were super ill just wouldn't happen.  We have been really fortunate and blessed in our lives, and there are enough people to go around if help was needed and financial planning that at least, initially, they'd be okay.  Parts of DHs family is not like that, so we've had to navigate the waters.

[orangeblossom]

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[StrawberryBlondie]

Nov 30, 2015 18:27:44 GMT -5 ttt said:

80%+ of black parents expect their children to support them?? Can we talk about this? This stuns me - is this a cultural thing I've just been oblivious to?

That really stuck out to me, too.

[skwcm80]

As I think about it the 80% number seems to be close. In my case it is cultural. I feel like I've always known that my parents' care would eventually be our responsibility. My relationship with my dad would be described as non existent but when he got sick at the end of his life his care and living expenses fell to all of us. It seems to be norm for my parents' generation that they pour everything into their kids because we are their retirement plans.

It seems to be case with my friends who've had family here for generations. A friend of mine and her BF have discussed what they will do when it's time for her mom to move in with them. 

[Velar Fricative]

It infuriates me that minority citizens can "do everything right" and still fall way short because of so many things beyond their control. And we're supposed to believe that they just didn't tighten their bootstraps enough. No. It's clearly systemic racism but nope, black President so no racism here.

[Deleted]

Nov 30, 2015 18:27:44 GMT -5 ttt said:

80%+ of black parents expect their children to support them?? Can we talk about this? This stuns me - is this a cultural thing I've just been oblivious to?

Yes, very much cultural, especially in Caribbean and African households. 

[LoveTrains]

I feel that we have discussed similar issues on MM. It is no surprise that members of the SCRU club are those who tend to be financially literate and have been set up by their families for success were the first on the board to buy homes, have bigger downpayments, etc. and plus also, overwhelmingly white (but so is MM in general).

[orangeblossom]

Nov 30, 2015 20:44:39 GMT -5 1234FIF! said:

My grandma and her siblings expected it, but my parents don't have this expectation of me BUT I am the most "together" so when hard times hit, I was the one laying out cash. Even so I am always seen as the selfish one among some of the extended family.

I think there's also the expectation that everybody is supposed to throw in when Jr knucklehead who is hustling weed gets thrown in the pokey or when cousin somebody's car is brokedown or when auntie whatever needs that air conditioner fixed.

So much to the bolded.  No, you do not get to suggest to someone that DH can help them out.  It's not even knucklehead stuff, but again, the expectation.

I actually almost ripped a card up from MIL that silmultaneously thanked us for helping a sibling, and at the time saying "Thanks for helping like a big brother should." Um, no.  

[blacksred]

I am that person in my family. We buy my grandma's groceries and pay her medical expenses. My siblings barely help out it causes some resentment in me sometimes as I see the stark contrast between my up bringing in poverty and my husband's who had the huxtable life.

Sent from my SM-N920V using proboards

[skwcm80]

orangeblossom that way of thinking sent me to a counselor when I was about 26. I had to finally tell my mom that the pressure was affecting my well being and I couldn't be responsible for my siblings too. 

[orangeblossom]

Nov 30, 2015 21:13:53 GMT -5 skwcm80 said:

orangeblossom that way of thinking sent me to a counselor when I was about 26. I had to finally tell my mom that the pressure was affecting my wellbeing and I could be responsible for my siblings too. 

I'm glad you were able to speak to your mom about it, and recognize that it was affecting you.

It's hard because you want to help family, but you have to think about yourself and nuclear family too, if that applies.

I think because we don't have kids, and DH has a good job, and when I do work, make decent money, people think we're the bank of Orangeblossom, and that's just not the case.  We have our own responsibilities.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind helping, but in our case, it's the sense of entitlement that really bothers me.  It's the I'm not going to change my way of life, but hey, can you still pay for my needs, while I get what I want.

At this point, for one family member, we won't have them without shelter, food and medications, but until they're ready to make some changes and talk to us about long term plans, that don't have us as the sole provider, the money is not as forthcoming.

It really bothered me to get to this point, especially since my mother is deceased and have a soft spot, for her just simply being a mother, but the soft spot has really closed in the last year or two.  It's closed some for DH too.

[skwcm80]

orangeblossom I completely understand what you mean by the sense of entitlement. I hate people counting my money for me. My sister actually was upset with me because I wouldn't move into an apartment with her so we could split rent. I had a lot of guilt for a while but it took my sister understanding that I wasn't going to bail her out any longer to start standing on her own two feet.

Like you, I won't have family go homeless or without food but the bank of Skwcm has been closed for some time now. ((Hugs))) i hope your family member starts to make the changes needed.

[NitaX]

Nov 30, 2015 18:27:44 GMT -5 ttt said:

80%+ of black parents expect their children to support them?? Can we talk about this? This stuns me - is this a cultural thing I've just been oblivious to?

We don't really believe in putting our parents and grandparents in nursing/senior living homes. The expectation is that once you get up in age, your kid just takes you in.

Like, I fully expect at some point there to be a conversation about my mom living with us. This kinda irks me because while I love my mom - she doesn't have any real savings and it's already becoming an ordeal dealing with her and my sister. My mom is only 58, but still, she's on disability thanks to a heart issue that caused her to pass out at work (scariest day of my life).  She worked for a while after that, but the job stress got to her and my stepdad asked her to quit. 

My stepdad died 7 yrs ago of a massive heart attack, so it's just her and whatever he left her (some pension and small life insurance).

[NitaX]

Nov 30, 2015 20:44:39 GMT -5 1234FIF! said:

My grandma and her siblings expected it, but my parents don't have this expectation of me BUT I am the most "together" so when hard times hit, I was the one laying out cash. Even so I am always seen as the selfish one among some of the extended family.

I think there's also the expectation that everybody is supposed to throw in when Jr knucklehead who is hustling weed gets thrown in the pokey or when cousin somebody's car is brokedown or when auntie whatever needs that air conditioner fixed.

You know, I'm sure folks think I'm bougie. I don't fucks with my criminal family members. They don''t even know where the hell I live. All I know is that if you'll steal fro your aunt, you'll for dayum sure steal from me - your second cousin. So, nawl - them mofos can't cross my damn door.

Also, during my sis and mom's latest fallout (because they are co-dependent as hell), she told my dad that she doesn't understand why mom won't ask me and my H for money. Then she said we probably made close to X amount. I wanted to cuss her out for counting my coins. 

But that's cool tho. I got one for you. How about I stop paying for this damn storage locker you've been using the past 3 years and ain't moved out of mom's house yet. Boom.

[josieposy]

Maybe someone already touched on it and I missed it, but what is generally the expectation once a parent gets to the point where in-home care is no longer viable?

[NitaX]

Nov 30, 2015 21:24:23 GMT -5 orangeblossom said:

Nov 30, 2015 21:13:53 GMT -5 skwcm80 said:

orangeblossom that way of thinking sent me to a counselor when I was about 26. I had to finally tell my mom that the pressure was affecting my wellbeing and I could be responsible for my siblings too. 

I'm glad you were able to speak to your mom about it, and recognize that it was affecting you.

It's hard because you want to help family, but you have to think about yourself and nuclear family too, if that applies.

I think because we don't have kids, and DH has a good job, and when I do work, make decent money, people think we're the bank of Orangeblossom, and that's just not the case.  We have our own responsibilities.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind helping, but in our case, it's the sense of entitlement that really bothers me.  It's the I'm not going to change my way of life, but hey, can you still pay for my needs, while I get what I want.

At this point, for one family member, we won't have them without shelter, food and medications, but until they're ready to make some changes and talk to us about long term plans, that don't have us as the sole provider, the money is not as forthcoming.

It really bothered me to get to this point, especially since my mother is deceased and have a soft spot, for her just simply being a mother, but the soft spot has really closed in the last year or two.  It's closed some for DH too.

Right. I'm like hell - we have student loans and kids. Regular ass expenses. Why the fuck y'all always asking us for money.

My H's mom asked him to co-sign on a car. My SIL asked my H to get an apt for her so she could move. I was like WHERE DA HELL THEY DO THAT AT? NAWL. DAMMIT.NAWL.

My mom burned her money bridges with me a long time ago. She would ask me for money and I'd say I didn't have it. To which she'd retort "you gotta be the brokest, workingest person I know." No. It's just your ass won't ever pay me back and I have my own bills. I'm not footing your extra shit.

Going back to working in college. I always wished I could have done an overseas or state capital internship. But nope. I did one locally and held down two part-time jobs (campus job and off-campus job). Because books. I'm forever grateful to my campus job boss because she would routinely buy all of her students workers' books and then we'd pay her back. That woman is amazing and I wouldn't be half the person I am today without having her in my life.

[NitaX]

Nov 30, 2015 22:20:04 GMT -5 josieposy said:

Maybe someone already touched on it and I missed it, but what is generally the expectation once a parent gets to the point where in-home care is no longer viable?

How are we paying for it? Black folks don't have money for that. If you're super lucky, a few people in the family are nurses and that's how you care for folks. They pitch in. My mom and aunt are nurses. My mom is currently assisting two other relatives with care.

[wawa]

Nov 30, 2015 20:44:29 GMT -5 LoveTrains said:

I feel that we have discussed similar issues on MM. It is no surprise that members of the SCRU club are those who tend to be financially literate and have been set up by their families for success were the first on the board to buy homes, have bigger downpayments, etc. and plus also, overwhelmingly white (but so is MM in general).

What's an SCRU?

[tacosforlife]

Nov 30, 2015 23:00:58 GMT -5 @vicmo said:

Nov 30, 2015 22:53:01 GMT -5 wawa said:

What's an SCRU?

Spoiled children r us.
So like extensive financial support from parents/family including education, wedding, car(s), random gifts of money, etc.

Spoiled children of rich upbringing.

Signed,
That $90k student loan balance says I'm definitely not a SCRU

[aurora]

See, this kind of thing is why I've morphed into a supporter for higher estate taxes. It seems like the only way to fight the kinds of generational advantages still around due to slavery and more recent racist practices.

[sarabi]

I just read this on fb and sent to my DH. i think the difference in wealth generation for the same amount of income was interesting. We're doing well (and had help in college), but not nearly as well as probably expected for other couples with our income and I think so much of it is the pass down from previous generations.

[whatnext]

Nov 30, 2015 20:41:54 GMT -5 @wandering said:

Nov 30, 2015 18:27:44 GMT -5 ttt said:

80%+ of black parents expect their children to support them?? Can we talk about this? This stuns me - is this a cultural thing I've just been oblivious to?

Yes, very much cultural, especially in Caribbean and African households. 

In my experience this is true for the Polynesia communities as well, more so in that the ones with steady employment will pay for siblings and parents healthcare, food, rent etc. it's a given

[sfy]

This really resonated with me the same as it likely does for most black people. 80% sounds about right to me. I'll be 40 soon, so not a millennial, but I think this is something that can apply to the last few generations. In the past few years, I have started to have more frequent conversations with friends who are supporting relatives. Sometimes, it's as small as just paying a cell phone bill, but other times, it's as much as rent/mortgage or more. I was recently talking to someone who is paying tuition for her sibling because her father was forced into early retirement during the recession. Another friend pays rent, car insurance for a MIL and just sent her a car. Personally, I know we've "loaned" a relative in the low five digits in the last 12-18 months (why am I keeping track when we will never get any of this money back?). The entitled attitude discussed above makes it an even harder pill to swallow. Moreover, we have a kid in college, so we are being squeezed on two ends. My parents helped me quite a bit when I was younger, but I still have student loans, mostly from grad school, and while DS will not have loans from undergrad, I don't know if/what/whether we will do anything for grad school.

My family doesn't ask and my parents didn't have to help their own family financially (my mother was a caretaker for my grandmother at the end of her life) so that all helps, but I still understand and respect the obligation we have as it relates to my husband's family. Also, because of the no nursing home attitude (although I am kind of excited to go to a nursing home when I'm old , definitely sounds better than living with DS and some DIL I don't know yet lol), I plan to move my mother in with us when she is ready. My father will go to my sister and BIL. My FIL and H do not have enough of a relationship to make him an issue for us and my MIL will likely go to SIL. So, the way I look at it, it evens out. We will physically care for someone on my side, so we can financially care for someone on H's side now. Also, although it does suck, we do at least have the ability. I have a friend who is a divorced parent of three and not a super high earner and she still pays several bills for her mother. It is a tremendous source of stress for her and what really sucks, is that I do not doubt that one of her children will probably end up helping her because her ability to save for retirement is limited. I have like 80 anecdotes, seriously, I'll just stop now.

[mrsukyankee]

Hi from London and living with my MIL - expectation of marrying into an Indian family. We'll be taking care of her for the rest of her life.

I do get the hardship of someone who has student loans, no money from family, etc. I still have loans at 46 (graduate school later on), didn't buy my first property until I got married at 38, to a guy who lived at home until he was 30 (so he could save money for a downpayment to afford a place to buyin London). If I didn't get married, there is no way that I could have purchased a house. I also had medical debt from living in the US (high deductible & % on top of that for ACL reconstruction). I'm lucky that I married someone who had no debt and had a decent salary - it allowed me to pay off debts that could have taken a lot more years to pay off.

[Deleted]

Do you think this generation will have the same expectation of their own children? I guess the women on this board are pretty successful so may need less help as they age but help isn't only a financial thing.
Do you have plans to lean/ not lean on your kids? Is the culture changing?

[spaghettisquash]

My in-laws are Thai and there is definitely an expectation that we will take them in once they retire or are unable to continue living in their current home. My husband is the eldest. I think they'd prefer my SIL or BIL but neither is financially stable so they want us. There is also the expectation that if anyone in the family needs anything, they will call my husband for assistance.

His family views us as wealthy and an unlimited source of funds. It's caused some stress for my husband, especially now that we are trying to pay off my student loans while saving for two college educations and paying for daycare.

[downtoearth]

Dec 1, 2015 8:39:28 GMT -5 pt716 said:

Nov 30, 2015 23:53:32 GMT -5 aurora said:

See, this kind of thing is why I've morphed into a supporter for higher estate taxes. It seems like the only way to fight the kinds of generational advantages still around due to slavery and more recent racist practices.

I wonder how much the estate tax actually helps with this though. It doesn't do anything for financial help like parents paying for college, down payments, etc. which give people a boost early on and allow them to in turn be better off financially. It's also a contributing reason to why my parents give us money now. Their goal is to transfer as much of their wealth as possible before they die to avoid the estate tax.

I also feel like an estate tax wouldn't make a huge impact - we still have generations of people (mostly white) who have owned land and passed that on or put it in trusts for kids and who made money in the stock market early and started retirement planning early and so on. It just seems like the "haves" keep having more and as the "don't-haves" start earning more and having more, they're still paying for other generations and so they can't acquire wealth early and make it grow fast.

Interesting read.