Oh man. That is fucked up. What did you say in your text?
"First, I'm sorry you feel we're trying to undermine your parenting. I have never meand to do anything but help and try to support. I am sorry. Second, I will not stand by silently and let you hit your child with a spoon instead of your hand. That is abuse. I hope you can see that. You're the last person I ever thought I would say this to. You are loving and caring. We love you and your children."
Yikes. This is totally a MYOB situation unless you don't want to have further contact with them. People don't take kindly to others undermining and critiquing their parenting. You're free to do it of course, just know that may dictate if you continue to see them.
i don't think you went about the conversation the right way, but i sure as shit would not let someone hit a child in my presence. saying something is definitely the right choice, but it's a sensitive conversation and i don't think you guys treated it that way.
Okay, I am not going to call CPS. I will talk H and ask him to apologize for yelling at her.
I think both of your hearts are in the right place, and those kids are lucky to have an aunt and uncle who are so protective of them. It's just a matter of expressing it all in a way that your SIL will be receptive to, while still watching out for the kids.
By both parents now saying they will not use their hands but for "love" and they are admitting to using a spoon. No it was not just a threat. Like I said to papie, when BIL first made a comment, we did think it was just a threat.
And I agree that it does sound like my SIL is at the end of her rope. This is why we've tried to be supportive to that. We often have the kids at our house multiple times a week.
We don't even have to bother offering to take over because mother already does take over. SIL is the one who was telling MIL, "Go get your dinner, I'll handle the kids." MIL takes over more than she should. I think SIL was directing her anger towards us because H called her out on the spoon and she was being defensive.
Like I said about spanking, I feel it is up to the parent to decide. A spoon is not spanking. They fucking hurt 10 times worse. Have you actually been hit with a spoon before?
I was spanked with a spoon as a child. Notice I say SPANKED with a spoon. My parents were not "hitting" me. They were disciplining me. I'd say it happened maybe 10 times in my life and for just reasons. It stung for 10 seconds and it was over.
This is not your choice. You need to MYOB.
I feel bad for being la di da I got spanked and I turned out ok because I personally don't like spanking and think it isn't an effective method of discipline, but yeah...I got my fair share of spankings and if I was particularly bad I got spanked with a brush handle. My parents were amazing parents, so far from abusive and so I always feel weird about this topic. I never feared them and a spanking never deterred me.
Oh man. That is fucked up. What did you say in your text?
"First, I'm sorry you feel we're trying to undermine your parenting. I have never meand to do anything but help and try to support. I am sorry. Second, I will not stand by silently and let you hit your child with a spoon instead of your hand. That is abuse. I hope you can see that. You're the last person I ever thought I would say this to. You are loving and caring. We love you and your children."
There is a whole philosophy about spanking that revolves around not using your hand, only a tool. It basically says that you want your kid to associate your hands with love.
Your text comes off as judgmental and over the top. Calling it abuse shut that conversation down immediately. You might as well write this off because there is no way a smart parent would bring their kids around someone who is calling them an abuser. It would just be opening them up for more judgment, at minimum, or CPS visits in more dire circumstances.
I fully admit that H did not handle it the best possible way at that moment. And now I'm seeing I didn't handle it well afterwards. Yes, this was undermining her parenting choice to hit her kid with a spoon. Hopefully a situation like never presents itself again, but I think H and I will hopefully do better in addressing the issue in the future.
I still don't think spanking and using a spoon are equal. If using an object to hit your child is not abuse, then what the fuck is it?
If your brother really wants to help, the answer is asking her to go take a breather with him to de escalate. As long as the child's behavior isn't dangerous or destructive it is ok to walk away from bad behavior and take a minute. It is probably one of the hardest things to do as a parent bc you want to correct correct correct, but at that point everyone is just feeding off bad energy.
I fully admit that H did not handle it the best possible way at that moment. And now I'm seeing I didn't handle it well afterwards. Yes, this was undermining her parenting choice to hit her kid with a spoon. Hopefully a situation like never presents itself again, but I think H and I will hopefully do better in addressing the issue in the future.
I still don't think spanking and using a spoon are equal. If using an object to hit your child is not abuse, then what the fuck is it?
"First, I'm sorry you feel we're trying to undermine your parenting. I have never meand to do anything but help and try to support. I am sorry. Second, I will not stand by silently and let you hit your child with a spoon instead of your hand. That is abuse. I hope you can see that. You're the last person I ever thought I would say this to. You are loving and caring. We love you and your children."
There is a whole philosophy about spanking that revolves around not using your hand, only a tool. It basically says that you want your kid to associate your hands with love.
Your text comes off as judgmental and over the top. Calling it abuse shut that conversation down immediately. You might as well write this off because there is no way a smart parent would bring their kids around someone who is calling them an abuser. It would just be opening them up for more judgment, at minimum, or CPS visits in more dire circumstances.
This is fucking bullshit. I don't give a shit if it's a parenting philosophy. It's fucking wrong.
I fully admit that H did not handle it the best possible way at that moment. And now I'm seeing I didn't handle it well afterwards. Yes, this was undermining her parenting choice to hit her kid with a spoon. Hopefully a situation like never presents itself again, but I think H and I will hopefully do better in addressing the issue in the future.
I still don't think spanking and using a spoon are equal. If using an object to hit your child is not abuse, then what the fuck is it?
Unfortunately its a parenting decision. Not one many agree with or a good one, but one none the less.
There is a whole philosophy about spanking that revolves around not using your hand, only a tool. It basically says that you want your kid to associate your hands with love.
Your text comes off as judgmental and over the top. Calling it abuse shut that conversation down immediately. You might as well write this off because there is no way a smart parent would bring their kids around someone who is calling them an abuser. It would just be opening them up for more judgment, at minimum, or CPS visits in more dire circumstances.
This is fucking bullshit. I don't give a shit if it's a parenting philosophy. It's fucking wrong.
That's your opinion, and I share it, but I think you need to educate yourself on what abuse actually is. And maybe step back to look at why she chose to use the spoon instead of her hand.
So I totally understand being uncomfortable with the way someone else disciplines their child, but calling CPS is a bit much here. If I was your SIL I would be raging about how your H intervened and your text message would've been the cherry on top of my "fuck you" cake. You are an awesome aunt and uncle for caring so much about them but this was handled so poorly.
I fully admit that H did not handle it the best possible way at that moment. And now I'm seeing I didn't handle it well afterwards. Yes, this was undermining her parenting choice to hit her kid with a spoon. Hopefully a situation like never presents itself again, but I think H and I will hopefully do better in addressing the issue in the future.
I still don't think spanking and using a spoon are equal. If using an object to hit your child is not abuse, then what the fuck is it?
injuring your child (broken bones, significant bruising, etc) spanking with hand or object (belt, spoon, etc) only qualifies if it does real damage. I don't think spanking is an effective parenting choice but in the majority of places it is a legal choice that parents can make.
I think you and your H handled this completely wrong. He shouldn't have flipped the fuck out on her in front of the kids and you shouldn't have sent that text message calling her an abuser.
Unless she was running towards the kid with a spoon about to beat the living shit out of him, it definitely could've been handled in a different manner. I've seen it happen in my family.
I think you owe your SIL an apology for taking things over the top in the heat of the moment, but you can also make it clear that you're not cool with spanking or hitting with objects in your home and want to move forward. Hopefully she will take to heart what you say and try to change her discipline tactics.
Yes, she should allow the SIL to make her own parenting choices. She's not beating her child.
Well I am surprised I'm coming down on this side of the argument today, but my initial response was "yet." I mean she was on her way to get the fucking spoon. This isn't like respecting someone's decision to give their child juice. Obviously her H could have been calmer in his response and possibly avoided having the situation blow up, but it sounds like he was probably passionate based on his own experiences. Should one call CPS over this single incident? Probably not. But there was nothing condemnable about telling SIL to check herself before taking a spoon to her kid.
She had the spoon in her hand and was standing in front of the child.
O.k. - so... throwing you a bone - while you and your DH didn't handle it well, as this appears to be the first time something like this happened, I'm not surprised. Emotions got the best of you. It happens. Hindsight is always 20/20. All I can suggest is use what happened and learn for the future.
I don't know how to rectify this w/ your SIL. What I will say - she knows very clearly your stance on spanking/ using a spoon. whatever you do to try and move past this, do NOT rehash your views with her. She GETS IT.
I think you need to apologize for how you and your DH reacted. Own up that you handled it poorly and that you hope that she'll forgive you. FULL STOP. There needs to be no "but... we don't agree w/ what you did". She KNOWS that. Let that part of the equation go.
Yes, she should allow the SIL to make her own parenting choices. She's not beating her child.
Well I am surprised I'm coming down on this side of the argument today, but my initial response was "yet." I mean she was on her way to get the fucking spoon. This isn't like respecting someone's decision to give their child juice. Obviously her H could have been calmer in his response and possibly avoided having the situation blow up, but it sounds like he was probably passionate based on his own experiences. Should one call CPS over this single incident? Probably not. But there was nothing condemnable about telling SIL to check herself before taking a spoon to her kid.
I've been in the situation where my siblings/friends have sparked their children in my presence. It's certainly uncomfortable, but still not my business.
Another side of it: I've never met a parent who WANTS to spank their child. But if they decide that is what they do, they need to be consistent. What if they never spanked their child in public for fear of what others will say? Their child will recognize this and be an asshole in public because they know their parents won't follow through.
I wouldn't call cps in this situation but I am a bit confused ie the legal definition of abuse bc I think it actually varies by state. A good friend of mine who is a police officer had told me that it is abuse if an object is used or if it leaves a mark. I certainly would have said something and not allowed it to happen in my home.
Actually a lot of parents who spank will not do it in public. They tell the kid they are getting a spanking when they get home. Not that that really matters in this thread.
You know, I can see that working for an older child. But I don't know that a 2 year old would be able to associate the undesired behavior with the spanking if it happened hours later.
I wouldn't call cps in this situation but I am a bit confused ie the legal definition of abuse bc I think it actually varies by state. A good friend of mine who is a police officer had told me that it is abuse if an object is used or if it leaves a mark. I certainly would have said something and not allowed it to happen in my home.
It certainly could be different state to state. I gleaned my information from a former CPS investigator (as recently as 6 months ago).
You know, I can see that working for an older child. But I don't know that a 2 year old would be able to associate the undesired behavior with the spanking if it happened hours later.
Well they wouldn't. But it doesn't mean parents don't do it. Or are we actually discussing the right way to spank? This is like bizzarro world in this thread since the board has come down pretty strongly against spanking in the past. WTF is going on?
Well agnes didn't clarify which part upset her. The actual spanking or the use of the spoon. It is hard to tell.
Well, you can simultaneously be anti-spanking and anti raving lunatic reaction. I think that's the issue at hand. No one is pro spanking. It's just...this wasn't handled well on any side.
Actually a lot of parents who spank will not do it in public. They tell the kid they are getting a spanking when they get home. Not that that really matters in this thread.
You know, I can see that working for an older child. But I don't know that a 2 year old would be able to associate the undesired behavior with the spanking if it happened hours later.
Dude, they barely associate it with a time out at this age. Pretty sure if you're spanking at 2 they have no idea what the fuck it's for. TWO. They're still in diapers. FFS.
I wouldn't call cps in this situation but I am a bit confused ie the legal definition of abuse bc I think it actually varies by state. A good friend of mine who is a police officer had told me that it is abuse if an object is used or if it leaves a mark. I certainly would have said something and not allowed it to happen in my home.
Yeah it does vary by state as state laws are different. In NY, spanking with a spoon wouldn't constitute child abuse unless it essentially caused injury or risk of death. You can't say that using an object automatically equals child abuse. Here is the definition: (it also includes sexual abuse)
"inflicts or allows to be inflicted upon the child physical injury by other than accidental means which causes or creates a substantial risk of death, serious or protracted disfigurement, protracted impairment of physical or emotional health or protracted loss or impairment of the function of any bodily organ; or
creates or allows to be created a substantial risk of physical injury to the child by other than accidental means which would be likely to cause death, serious or protracted disfigurement, protracted impairment of physical or emotional health or protracted loss or impairment of the function of any bodily organ; or "
She is sick right now and cries because she has a stuffy nose and can't breathe, and she cries even more when I use a Nosefrida on her, even though that takes out all the snot and makes her feel better.
She thinks everyone on Sesame Street is "Elmo."
She thinks anything with four legs is a dog.
The notion of a child that age understanding that being hit is a consequence of poor behavior is tenuous at best.
The thought of an adult coming at her with a spoon breaks my fucking heart.
Not a parent, but you have every right to be unhappy with that type of parenting. What kind of a wackadoo teaches a child to associate an object that feeds themselves (regardless of the size) with pain/punishment? What kind of a crazy decides that using physical harm is the way to control a human being? Someone who is lacking in communication and research into non-violent methods of discipline, that's who. You are the normal one, here.
My H has spanked our dogs before (because he was spanked) and I FLIPPED. The same would go for our kids--no physical punishment. Don't get me wrong, I would not be perfect. They'd get The Look, The Scream, and I'd probably pummel a few pillows.