Gloria Steinem is gonna get it

[jeaniebueller]

I'll have to watch the Real Time clip later. Bill probably lost his mind.

.

[Kristinmo]

The gif in your siggy sums up my reaction

[jeaniebueller]

Also, the Berners have totally hijacked her FB page now.

[overture]

Fucking boomers.

Edit: Holy shit she's 81? Nevermind.

[derp]

This is so sexist and furiously offensive.

Those little women don't know their own minds.

Between this and Albright's comments, I'm just completely disgusted and reconsidering my decision to vote for Hillary in the general if she's nominated. I was going to, but the tactics or getting more and more gross. And I've not seen this kind of vitriol from the Berner side.

[elleblue]

Feb 7, 2016 2:25:24 GMT -5 derp said:

This is so sexist and furiously offensive.

Those little women don't know their own minds.

Between this and Albright's comments, I'm just completely disgusted and reconsidering my decision to vote for Hillary in the general if she's nominated. I was going to, but the tactics or getting more and more gross. And I've not seen this kind of vitriol from the Berner side.

Really? I mean, I'm not condoning what either of them have said but if you think they're the only ones being ugly, you haven't been paying attention. Or maybe you just don't have the same friends on social media. It's ugly out there. Really gd ugly. 

[mrsukyankee]

Feb 7, 2016 2:25:24 GMT -5 derp said:

This is so sexist and furiously offensive.

Those little women don't know their own minds.

Between this and Albright's comments, I'm just completely disgusted and reconsidering my decision to vote for Hillary in the general if she's nominated. I was going to, but the tactics or getting more and more gross. And I've not seen this kind of vitriol from the Berner side.

You're kidding, right?  I've seen a lot worse from Bernie's side.  

[jeaniebueller]

Feb 7, 2016 2:25:24 GMT -5 derp said:

This is so sexist and furiously offensive.

Those little women don't know their own minds.

Between this and Albright's comments, I'm just completely disgusted and reconsidering my decision to vote for Hillary in the general if she's nominated. I was going to, but the tactics or getting more and more gross. And I've not seen this kind of vitriol from the Berner side.

You aren't going to vote for HRC because of comments that Albright and Steinem said? Sounds legit.

[jeaniebueller]

Also, I watched the show last night, it was maybe a 10 second exchange, she started to elaborate more and Maher cut her off and they moved on. I tend to think her comment was made TIC.

[One Girl In All The World]

Feb 7, 2016 7:12:52 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

Also, I watched the show last night, it was maybe a 10 second exchange, she started to elaborate more and Maher cut her off and they moved on. I tend to think her comment was made TIC.

Yeah honestly that was my take as well. I was expecting much worse. And I have seen much worse from the Berners. I can't believe there are still people claiming not to have seen that from Bernie supporters.

[NewOrleans]

Feb 7, 2016 2:25:24 GMT -5 derp said:

This is so sexist and furiously offensive.

Those little women don't know their own minds.

Between this and Albright's comments, I'm just completely disgusted and reconsidering my decision to vote for Hillary in the general if she's nominated. I was going to, but the tactics or getting more and more gross. And I've not seen this kind of vitriol from the Berner side.

LOL!  

[heyjude]

Derp was never going to vote for HRC.

[asdfjkl]

Here's the full interview.  



I love Gloria.  I love Hillary, but I'm not sure I love her for president.  I love Bernie, but I'm not sure he's much more than a big picture talker.  Like what can he actually get done?  

But to the point about the comment here, I don't think Gloria was being TIC.  I think she was trying to make what actually might have been a sort of very demographic-data-supported comment about specifically very young women voters.  So the context is that "Women get more radical as they get older and men get more conservative because women lose power as they get older and men gain it."  WHICH IS A FUCKING TRUE AND AWESOME STATEMENT.  She then states the older women support Hillary while younger women support Bernie and then is starting to explain why when the cut-off music starts playing and Bill starts cutting her off and getting shitty with her.  I think what she would have said if Bill would have let her, is that these are women who in 15 years would have been "Hillary voters" and men who in 15 years would be Rubio voters.  So Hillary is the more radical choice, but women at 19 or 23 aren't really all that radical.  I'm not sure she's wrong about that demographic summary.  

[asdfjkl]

And I don't mean to get off topic, but Bill is a total dick to Steinem from "go."  He plays with her clothes, he cuts her off, he argues with her about shit that just doesn't deserve an argument.  I mean, yes, "This is Bill Maher being Bill Maher" but these are two people who are actually on the same side and he's like, "No, you're wrong."  And she's like, "How am I wrong?  I'm saying what YOU'RE saying?"  

[ESF]

I spent a good part of my 18-24 year old years feeling dumb. It was, without a doubt, the point in my life where I was the most unsure of myself. High school was easier for me self esteem wise than that age range.

I've actually been skeptical of the claims that young women overwhelmingly support Bernie. Sure, I think most are probably supporting him. But I still think there are a lot of young women who are either supporting Hillary or at least, have respect and admiration for her, but are too insecure, too overrun by Bernie Bros, or yes, even trying too damn hard to be accepted and loved.

To dismiss Steinem's point as sexist without anything else is to dismiss the very real problem of how for many girls, their confidence crumbles as they get older.

[aussiecrush]

Feb 7, 2016 2:25:24 GMT -5 derp said:

This is so sexist and furiously offensive.

Those little women don't know their own minds.

Between this and Albright's comments, I'm just completely disgusted and reconsidering my decision to vote for Hillary in the general if she's nominated. I was going to, but the tactics or getting more and more gross. And I've not seen this kind of vitriol from the Berner side.

So you missed Susan Sarandon stating that she supports Bernie because she doesn't vote with her vagina? That's no less sexist and offensive.

[asdfjkl]

I think there's also a problem with Steinem's comment because Bernie is actually more radical than Hillary.  The prospect of having a female president is more radical than having a white male president, but from a policy perspective, Bernie is the radical.  However, Hillary is the pragmatist.  My complaint about Obama has consistently been that he wasn't nearly as liberal as he purported to be while campaigning.  So, I gravitate towards Bernie because I want the fucking revolution.  But Hillary's moderatism v. a theoretical revolution in which nothing is reformed because it's all dreams and idealism with no feasible plan of action...  I pick moderatism. 

So, how are my younger counter-parts likely to be viewing this situation?  How pragmatic is a 23 year old of ANY age?  I think Steinem may have it backwards: that younger women are choosing Bernie because they are radical (to some extent or another), but lack pragmatism or an appreciation for what is at stake if NOTHING gets done.  Women who are 43?  They might support all of Bernie's platforms in theory, but be looking at Hillary as someone who can move the ball forward.  

I will say I've been reading and listening a LOT to the criticisms that when Bernie is nailed down and asked for a n-step plan, his n=  Like, what's the plan, man?  I like your idea.  But what's the execution strategy behind that bad boy?  

So I don't think it has anything to do with wanting to hang out with the boys.  Steinem is wrong about that, IMO.  But her comment is almost uninterpretable because Bill just shuts down her next seven sentences.

[mouse]

Feb 7, 2016 10:38:44 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

I think there's also a problem with Steinem's comment because Bernie is actually more radical than Hillary.  The prospect of having a female president is more radical than having a white male president, but from a policy perspective, Bernie is the radical.  However, Hillary is the pragmatist.  My complaint about Obama has consistently been that he wasn't nearly as liberal as he purported to be while campaigning.  So, I gravitate towards Bernie because I want the fucking revolution.  But Hillary's moderatism v. a theoretical revolution in which nothing is reformed because it's all dreams and idealism with no feasible plan of action...  I pick moderatism. 

So, how are my younger counter-parts likely to be viewing this situation?  How pragmatic is a 23 year old of ANY age?  I think Steinem may have it backwards: that younger women are choosing Bernie because they are radical (to some extent or another), but lack pragmatism or an appreciation for what is at stake if NOTHING gets done.  Women who are 43?  They might support all of Bernie's platforms in theory, but be looking at Hillary as someone who can move the ball forward.  

I will say I've been reading and listening a LOT to the criticisms that when Bernie is nailed down and asked for a n-step plan, his n=  Like, what's the plan, man?  I like your idea.  But what's the execution strategy behind that bad boy?  

So I don't think it has anything to do with wanting to hang out with the boys.  Steinem is wrong about that, IMO.  But her comment is almost uninterpretable because Bill just shuts down her next seven sentences.

Thank you for summing up 90% of my Hillary vs. Bernie feelings so nicely! (The other 10% is generally admiring Hillary the person, her accomplishments and the bullshit she's overcome.)

[ESF]

Feb 7, 2016 11:14:36 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

I really don't think I agree with the statement that women get more power as they age. The only power really that young women wield is attractiveness, but aren't women summarily disregarded when they are young and attractive?

She said women lose power as they age. That's what causes them to be more revolutionary.

To asdfjkl's point on whether Clinton is more revolutionary, I think on the issue of women's rights, she absolutely is. Not just because she's a woman. But because if there's been one thing Clinton has been not just consistent on, but aggressively committed to, it's women's rights. Sanders phones it in by comparison. As I said in another thread, he will play defense but he has never played offense, nor does anything in his platform suggest he will if he is president. I don't know if there's a person alive who will approach the responsibility of replacing Ginsburg with the seriousness and tenacity that Clinton will. That's what makes her the revolutionary.

[auntie]

Feb 7, 2016 7:36:51 GMT -5 One Girl In All The World said:

Feb 7, 2016 7:12:52 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

Also, I watched the show last night, it was maybe a 10 second exchange, she started to elaborate more and Maher cut her off and they moved on. I tend to think her comment was made TIC.

Yeah honestly that was my take as well. I was expecting much worse. And I have seen much worse from the Berners. I can't believe there are still people claiming not to have seen that from Bernie supporters.

Mine as well.

And damn, she looks amazing for 81.

[sfy]

Feb 7, 2016 10:26:29 GMT -5 ESF said:

I spent a good part of my 18-24 year old years feeling dumb. It was, without a doubt, the point in my life where I was the most unsure of myself. High school was easier for me self esteem wise than that age range.

I've actually been skeptical of the claims that young women overwhelmingly support Bernie. Sure, I think most are probably supporting him. But I still think there are a lot of young women who are either supporting Hillary or at least, have respect and admiration for her, but are too insecure, too overrun by Bernie Bros, or yes, even trying too damn hard to be accepted and loved.

To dismiss Steinem's point as sexist without anything else is to dismiss the very real problem of how for many girls, their confidence crumbles as they get older.

This is incredibly condescending and reeks of projection imo. Not every young woman struggles with confidence--personally, I didn't. I don't understand why it's so hard to believe that Sanders simply appeals to a younger demographic who aren't interested in Hillary, men and women alike. I'm supporting Hillary, not because I'm excited for her to win (I'm really not), but because I think she can get more shit done than Bernie can. If I was younger, more idealistic, and more naive, he might have my support instead, and it wouldn't be because I cared what some raggedy ass boy thought, but because, like it or not, Bernie's old ass is speaking to their generation.

[sfy]

Feb 7, 2016 3:13:52 GMT -5 Dig Ophelia said:

Feb 7, 2016 2:25:24 GMT -5 derp said:

This is so sexist and furiously offensive.

Those little women don't know their own minds.

Between this and Albright's comments, I'm just completely disgusted and reconsidering my decision to vote for Hillary in the general if she's nominated. I was going to, but the tactics or getting more and more gross. And I've not seen this kind of vitriol from the Berner side.

You're no longer going to vote for Hilary, because of a few of her supporters?

I mean, I get not liking her or not finding her to be the best candidate, but why allow yourself to be swayed by other people's opinions/actions?



 

Do you know how often people say they are turned off of Bernie because of the Berners?

[eclaires]

Feb 7, 2016 11:47:03 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

Feb 7, 2016 11:21:35 GMT -5 ESF said:

She said women lose power as they age. That's what causes them to be more revolutionary.

To asdfjkl 's point on whether Clinton is more revolutionary, I think on the issue of women's rights, she absolutely is. Not just because she's a woman. But because if there's been one thing Clinton has been not just consistent on, but aggressively committed to, it's women's rights. Sanders phones it in by comparison. As I said in another thread, he will play defense but he has never played offense, nor does anything in his platform suggest he will if he is president. I don't know if there's a person alive who will approach the responsibility of replacing Ginsburg with the seriousness and tenacity that Clinton will. That's what makes her the revolutionary.

Right. Shit. I phrased it wrong. It was one of those things where I kept editing the post, but put something in a positive that should have been in a negative.

I disagree with her. I think women gain actual power as they age, but maybe lose attractiveness power.

I think that may be true but what I think the point is is that younger people tend to be idealistic about their future. We tell young girls from birth they can be anything, and for the most part, I would bet most women ages 18-22ish don't have a huge exposure to overt sexism. Especially the current generation because of how aware people try to be and how schools (most of their interaction outside of the home) are now. As you age, you are exposed to more and realize and encounter more sexism. At least I did. Maybe I was uniquely sheltered, I don't know. But I was pretty sheltered from sexism until I was in my mid 20s. Maybe it's simply awareness or learning what is sexism and how to recognize it, I don't know. But I think young women of my generation and the current one are probably raised to think a certain way that isn't exactly reality.

ETA: so even if they gain power, they perceive it as having less because they expected more.

[derp]

Feb 7, 2016 3:05:01 GMT -5 elleblue said:

Feb 7, 2016 2:25:24 GMT -5 derp said:

This is so sexist and furiously offensive.

Those little women don't know their own minds.

Between this and Albright's comments, I'm just completely disgusted and reconsidering my decision to vote for Hillary in the general if she's nominated. I was going to, but the tactics or getting more and more gross. And I've not seen this kind of vitriol from the Berner side.

Really? I mean, I'm not condoning what either of them have said but if you think they're the only ones being ugly, you haven't been paying attention. Or maybe you just don't have the same friends on social media. It's ugly out there. Really gd ugly. 

I'm telling you what I've seen. My experiences are my experiences. I've been paying a lot of attention.

Feb 7, 2016 3:08:32 GMT -5 mrsukyankee said:

Feb 7, 2016 2:25:24 GMT -5 derp said:

This is so sexist and furiously offensive.

Those little women don't know their own minds.

Between this and Albright's comments, I'm just completely disgusted and reconsidering my decision to vote for Hillary in the general if she's nominated. I was going to, but the tactics or getting more and more gross. And I've not seen this kind of vitriol from the Berner side.

You're kidding, right?  I've seen a lot worse from Bernie's side.  

I'm telling you what I've seen. My experiences are my experiences.

Feb 7, 2016 3:13:52 GMT -5 Dig Ophelia said:

Feb 7, 2016 2:25:24 GMT -5 derp said:

This is so sexist and furiously offensive.

Those little women don't know their own minds.

Between this and Albright's comments, I'm just completely disgusted and reconsidering my decision to vote for Hillary in the general if she's nominated. I was going to, but the tactics or getting more and more gross. And I've not seen this kind of vitriol from the Berner side.

You're no longer going to vote for Hilary, because of a few of her supporters?

I mean, I get not liking her or not finding her to be the best candidate, but why allow yourself to be swayed by other people's opinions/actions?

I'm pretty sure many here are pretty angered by what they perceive coming from the "BernieBros", and have been turned off from Bernie altogether as a result. How is this different?

Feb 7, 2016 9:24:51 GMT -5 heyjude said:

Derp was never going to vote for HRC.

I literally just said I was planning on voting for her in the general (and am now reconsidering). Do you have reading comprehension skills?

[ESF]

Feb 7, 2016 11:28:00 GMT -5 sfy said:

Feb 7, 2016 10:26:29 GMT -5 ESF said:

I spent a good part of my 18-24 year old years feeling dumb. It was, without a doubt, the point in my life where I was the most unsure of myself. High school was easier for me self esteem wise than that age range.

I've actually been skeptical of the claims that young women overwhelmingly support Bernie. Sure, I think most are probably supporting him. But I still think there are a lot of young women who are either supporting Hillary or at least, have respect and admiration for her, but are too insecure, too overrun by Bernie Bros, or yes, even trying too damn hard to be accepted and loved.

To dismiss Steinem's point as sexist without anything else is to dismiss the very real problem of how for many girls, their confidence crumbles as they get older.

This is incredibly condescending and reeks of projection imo. Not every young woman struggles with confidence--personally, I didn't. I don't understand why it's so hard to believe that Sanders simply appeals to a younger demographic who aren't interested in Hillary, men and women alike. I'm supporting Hillary, not because I'm excited for her to win (I'm really not), but because I think she can get more shit done than Bernie can. If I was younger, more idealistic, and more naive, he might have my support instead, and it wouldn't be because I cared what some raggedy ass boy thought, but because, like it or not, Bernie's old ass is speaking to their generation.

Maybe it wasn't clear. I didn't say every young woman struggles with self confidence, or that most of Sanders female supporters are faking it. When I said "most are supporting him" I meant, "most are saying they support him, will also vote for him, and do so enthusiastically." In that context, my point was that it would not surprise me is some, maybe even a lot (but probably not most), of the "support" is surface level only because we live in a culture in which at least some young women feel their voices drowned out and struggle to fit in. It's not like I'm imagining this phenomena where some girls start to feel more and more marginalized in their teen years.

[asdfjkl]

Feb 7, 2016 11:14:36 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

I really don't think I agree with the statement that women have more power when they're young. The only power really that young women wield is attractiveness, but aren't women summarily disregarded when they are young and attractive?

No.  They are hired.  

And then they are fired when they "become a bitch" by asking for too many raises or they "lose the fire" when they become a mother and can't miraculously balance a 40-60 hour work week with a 4 month old.

[sfy]

Feb 7, 2016 11:59:34 GMT -5 ESF said:

Feb 7, 2016 11:28:00 GMT -5 sfy said:

This is incredibly condescending and reeks of projection imo. Not every young woman struggles with confidence--personally, I didn't. I don't understand why it's so hard to believe that Sanders simply appeals to a younger demographic who aren't interested in Hillary, men and women alike. I'm supporting Hillary, not because I'm excited for her to win (I'm really not), but because I think she can get more shit done than Bernie can. If I was younger, more idealistic, and more naive, he might have my support instead, and it wouldn't be because I cared what some raggedy ass boy thought, but because, like it or not, Bernie's old ass is speaking to their generation.

Maybe it wasn't clear. I didn't say every young woman struggles with self confidence, or that most of Sanders female supporters are faking it. When I said "most are supporting him" I meant, "most are saying they support him, will also vote for him, and do so enthusiastically." In that context, my point was that it would not surprise me is some, maybe even a lot (but probably not most), of the "support" is surface level only because we live in a culture in which at least some young women feel their voices drowned out and struggle to fit in. It's not like I'm imagining this phenomena where some girls start to feel more and more marginalized in their teen years.

There's a big difference between feeling marginalized and not having the ability to think for oneself, discern which of two candidates is most preferred and vote accordingly. No matter what shade of lipstick you put on this pig, it boils down to, "There, there, sweetie, I know you think you want Bernie for president, but you're just being led by your thirst for male approval." That's sexist as hell and it sucks. I would LOVE to have a woman in office and I'll be happy when Hillary wins, because I totally expect her to win, but she's not the woman I would have preferred if I had my druthers. I can't believe that women find it so hard to believe that there are other women who aren't enthusiastic for Hillary (or even just more enthusiastic for the male candidate) not because of who she is, but because of low confidence. If it wasn't actually really sad, I'd laugh.

[jeaniebueller]

She has responded, FYI.

[derp]

Feb 7, 2016 12:12:05 GMT -5 Dig Ophelia said:

His more rabid followers just make our points for us in terms of how we see the Sanders' campaign as it relates to women and minorities.  I don't like speaking for others, but I know that for myself, I have become more and more upset by Bernie's campaign because I feel that it's unrealistic, un-inclusive, and a threat to the Democratic Party.  My view was helped by Bernie Bros, but not caused by it.  Bernie and his 'Bros'  are connected issues but not mutually exclusive of one another.  I can dislike Bernie and dislike his Bros and each for their own reasons.  

Thanks for your response. I feel exactly the opposite of this on every point.

As for the general, it's a long way off. Who knows. Right now I'm feeling really alienated and angry about Hillary. I realize the importance of the justices, so it's difficult.

I do wonder, how many here would vote for Bernie if he was the nominee?

[lexus]

Feb 7, 2016 12:12:05 GMT -5 Dig Ophelia said:

Feb 7, 2016 11:35:59 GMT -5 sfy said:

Do you know how often people say they are turned off of Bernie because of the Berners?

Feb 7, 2016 11:55:44 GMT -5 derp said:

I'm pretty sure many here are pretty angered by what they perceive coming from the "BernieBros", and have been turned off from Bernie altogether as a result. How is this different?

To both of your points -- I think that's foolishness, too.  


A lot of the women here have been turned off of Bernie, by none other than Bernie himself, and that's why we aren't voting for him.  

His more rabid followers just make our points for us in terms of how we see the Sanders' campaign as it relates to women and minorities.  I don't like speaking for others, but I know that for myself, I have become more and more upset by Bernie's campaign because I feel that it's unrealistic, un-inclusive, and a threat to the Democratic Party.  My view was helped by Bernie Bros, but not caused by it.  Bernie and his 'Bros'  are connected issues but not mutually exclusive of one another.  I can dislike Bernie and dislike his Bros and each for their own reasons.  

Personally, if I believed in what Bernie was selling and I truly thought him to be the better candidate, then I would vote for him, regardless of what I thought of the Bernie Bros.  I don't do that and I never will -- waffle because of popular opinion or because of the "reputation" of others within a group.  

I am insulted by the comments that women who support Bernie do so because they aren't confident in themselves or to fit in. No one cares who I am voting for and if I didn't discuss it no one would be the wiser. I'm voting for Bernie because the world he describes is the one I want my children to grow up in.