We act as if work is optional for women. It’s not.

[isabel]

I fucking hated it when people asked me if I was going to continue working while I was pregnant. Uh, yes, asshole. Even if I wanted to stay home, it's not an option.

Why is it so easy to assume that women have the ability to just stop making a paycheck?

[Gato]

It's maddening.

There's a very good TED Talk on the same subject:

Jessica Shortall - The US Needs Paid Family Leave

[thatgirl2478]

Feb 10, 2016 22:37:24 GMT -5 isabel said:

I fucking hated it when people asked me if I was going to continue working while I was pregnant. Uh, yes, asshole. Even if I wanted to stay home, it's not an option.

Why is it so easy to assume that women have the ability to just stop making a paycheck?

Probably because for so many households it makes more financial sense to have the wife stop working vs paying for daycare. 

But, I guess that depends on your personal goals too.  I mean, if you take time out of your career to stay home with the kids, it's going to set you back further than if you didn't take that time off.

When I was first pregnant, I looked into daycare in/near my old office (Deerfield IL) it was going to be $1700 a month for an infant.  I only made $3k a month and I had been there for a while so I made more than a lot of the newer 'lower tier' employees.  I can't imagine being at my first job making $1500 a month trying to keep working and pay for my kid to be in daycare.

[isabel]

Feb 10, 2016 22:50:17 GMT -5 thatgirl2478 said:

Feb 10, 2016 22:37:24 GMT -5 isabel said:

I fucking hated it when people asked me if I was going to continue working while I was pregnant. Uh, yes, asshole. Even if I wanted to stay home, it's not an option.

Why is it so easy to assume that women have the ability to just stop making a paycheck?

Probably because for so many households it makes more financial sense to have the wife stop working vs paying for daycare. 

But, I guess that depends on your personal goals too.  I mean, if you take time out of your career to stay home with the kids, it's going to set you back further than if you didn't take that time off.

When I was first pregnant, I looked into daycare in/near my old office (Deerfield IL) it was going to be $1700 a month for an infant.  I only made $3k a month and I had been there for a while so I made more than a lot of the newer 'lower tier' employees.  I can't imagine being at my first job making $1500 a month trying to keep working and pay for my kid to be in daycare.

I hear what you're saying. But it had nothing to do with my career. In fact, I switched to a completely different industry at the end of my maternity leave because I was in hospitality and hated the hours. The fact is that daycare is $1,200 around here and I made a decent bit more than that. It would have crippled us for me to stop working even though that monthly daycare payment would have taken a massive chunk out of my salary (MIL watched DS).

[SallyJ]

Feb 10, 2016 22:50:17 GMT -5 thatgirl2478 said:

Feb 10, 2016 22:37:24 GMT -5 isabel said:

I fucking hated it when people asked me if I was going to continue working while I was pregnant. Uh, yes, asshole. Even if I wanted to stay home, it's not an option.

Why is it so easy to assume that women have the ability to just stop making a paycheck?

Probably because for so many households it makes more financial sense to have the wife stop working vs paying for daycare. 

But, I guess that depends on your personal goals too.  I mean, if you take time out of your career to stay home with the kids, it's going to set you back further than if you didn't take that time off.

When I was first pregnant, I looked into daycare in/near my old office (Deerfield IL) it was going to be $1700 a month for an infant.  I only made $3k a month and I had been there for a while so I made more than a lot of the newer 'lower tier' employees.  I can't imagine being at my first job making $1500 a month trying to keep working and pay for my kid to be in daycare.

Why is it assumed that it would be the wife that stops working?

[isabel]

Feb 10, 2016 23:41:59 GMT -5 SallyJ said:

Feb 10, 2016 22:50:17 GMT -5 thatgirl2478 said:

Probably because for so many households it makes more financial sense to have the wife stop working vs paying for daycare. 

But, I guess that depends on your personal goals too.  I mean, if you take time out of your career to stay home with the kids, it's going to set you back further than if you didn't take that time off.

When I was first pregnant, I looked into daycare in/near my old office (Deerfield IL) it was going to be $1700 a month for an infant.  I only made $3k a month and I had been there for a while so I made more than a lot of the newer 'lower tier' employees.  I can't imagine being at my first job making $1500 a month trying to keep working and pay for my kid to be in daycare.

Why is it assumed that it would be the wife that stops working?

Because women are paid like .60 cents for every dollar a man makes?

[downtoearth]

Can we not make this about how much you pay for daycare?! It's way beyond that, especially since it's mostly women earning like $10/hr who HAVE to work in the daycares.

I agree that we have the wrong cultural mindset on women and work.

[pinkdutchtulips]

Feb 10, 2016 22:57:54 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

Feb 10, 2016 22:50:17 GMT -5 thatgirl2478 said:

Probably because for so many households it makes more financial sense to have the wife stop working vs paying for daycare. 

But, I guess that depends on your personal goals too.  I mean, if you take time out of your career to stay home with the kids, it's going to set you back further than if you didn't take that time off.

When I was first pregnant, I looked into daycare in/near my old office (Deerfield IL) it was going to be $1700 a month for an infant.  I only made $3k a month and I had been there for a while so I made more than a lot of the newer 'lower tier' employees.  I can't imagine being at my first job making $1500 a month trying to keep working and pay for my kid to be in daycare.

Holy crap, that is highway robbery childcare! In the DC area, we only would have had to pay around $1300 a month for an infant in full time care (she went part time as an infant). 

I thought the part about the Lanham Act and being able to have state funded childcare was really enlightening and disheartening that we no longer do it.

The Lanham Act may have paid part of the state funded costs of childcare during the Rosie the Riveter days. Over the summer i was at a RosieRally (1085 women & girls dressed as Rosie the Riveter) at the Rosie the Riveter WWII Homefront National Park on the site of the old Kaiser Shipyards in Richmond. They had a path w tidbits about the movement in the park and one struck me as 'the more things change, the more they stay the same' ... women earned $31/month , 24 hr childcare was 71 cents/day !  i did the math in my head and chuckled. it STILL takes a ton of a woman's check to cover childcare

[open24hours]

As a country, I really think we still believe that a woman belongs barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. This mentality is definitely part of the reason we don't prioritize paid maternity leave and affordable child care. "Good" mothers, those that follow the rules of being a 50s housewife, don't need either of those things. Those of us who need/want to work are punished for it.

[Velar Fricative]

Feb 10, 2016 23:54:02 GMT -5 isabel said:

Feb 10, 2016 23:41:59 GMT -5 SallyJ said:

Why is it assumed that it would be the wife that stops working?

Because women are paid like .60 cents for every dollar a man makes?

The article states that about 40% of women are primary breadwinners in their households. Not a majority, but not insignificant either. The poster above specifically mentioned the wife's paycheck. Husbands don't automatically earn more and no one ever seems to assume that the husband's paycheck would get sacrificed. And even if the wife earns less, stepping back from her career may have more detrimental effects for the household, particularly when it comes to benefits.

Not to mention there are households headed up by two married women too.

[smock]

I have a PhD, a tenure-track job, and I make more than Mr. Smock. I still got asked if I was quitting when I had my first kid (though not by anyone in academia!) and he was never asked that question.

I definitely feel like the resistance to paid family leave and subsidized childcare is driven in part by a sexist mentality that says "why should we incentivize women to work when they should really be at home with their kids?" It's bullshit paternalism, and it completely ignores the reality that work is not optional for most women.

[penguingrrl]

It's really frustrating. I was someone who had to leave the workforce even though it wasn't in our familiy's best interest long term. I had so many people tell me I was "doing the right thing for my kids" by staying home and got mad that that attitude was exactly why I was stuck home.

8.5 years later I'm finding that even with school age kids it's hard to balance two careers. The school schedule and calendar are still very much set up on the assumption that one parent is home ft despite that not being reality. Aftercare is costly and ends at 6, which is still earlier than most ft working professionals I know get home (partly because my area is a bedroom community and there aren't a ton of professional jobs locally). And full day summer camp is insanely expensive.

[dottyblue]

I am enraged when DH gets the "what do you do?" question when meeting new people an I am ignored.

I had multiple people tell me I should take a few years' break from work, until the boys go to school. No one assumes I am the primary breadwinner although I make three times what DH does. Yet people were shocked when we were considering him becoming a SAHD. It was insulting because I knew no one would blink twice if I had decided to stay home.

[rupertpenny]

Yes, I hate this assumption. I finished grad school 2 weeks before B was born and I didn't have a job lined up immediately. I had SO MANY people tell me how lucky I was and how it was all for the best and they were sure I wouldn't be able to leave my baby with someone else after spending this precious time with her. I was already super stressed about finding work and this did not help at all.

[karinothing]

Feb 11, 2016 0:05:46 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

Feb 10, 2016 23:16:14 GMT -5 jenny1980 said:

Really? That seems crazy low for DC. Here (Seattle) most centers are $2k+ for infants. 

Well, to be fair I am 30 miles outside of the city. I'm sure in Arlington and environs it's much worse. 

Yes, I am paying $2100 for infant care.  But I also think outside the beltway is no longer DC area

[CheeringCharm]

I agree, this article makes many valid points. At the very least, the federal government should raise the amount that is tax deductible for childcare. I think it is only $5k or so right now? I feel like that could be doubled without too big of a big push back from Republicans (I have a feeling that creating a chain of national, subsidized daycare centers would get a negative reaction from them, to say the least).

[tacosforlife]

Feb 11, 2016 8:30:13 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Feb 11, 2016 0:05:46 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

Well, to be fair I am 30 miles outside of the city. I'm sure in Arlington and environs it's much worse. 

Yes, I am paying $2100 for infant care.  But I also think outside the beltway is no longer DC area civilization 

There. Better.

[cookiemdough]

Feb 10, 2016 22:57:54 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

Feb 10, 2016 22:50:17 GMT -5 thatgirl2478 said:

Probably because for so many households it makes more financial sense to have the wife stop working vs paying for daycare. 

But, I guess that depends on your personal goals too.  I mean, if you take time out of your career to stay home with the kids, it's going to set you back further than if you didn't take that time off.

When I was first pregnant, I looked into daycare in/near my old office (Deerfield IL) it was going to be $1700 a month for an infant.  I only made $3k a month and I had been there for a while so I made more than a lot of the newer 'lower tier' employees.  I can't imagine being at my first job making $1500 a month trying to keep working and pay for my kid to be in daycare.

Holy crap, that is highway robbery childcare! In the DC area, we only would have had to pay around $1300 a month for an infant in full time care (she went part time as an infant). 

I thought the part about the Lanham Act and being able to have state funded childcare was really enlightening and disheartening that we no longer do it.

In the city people pay as much as $1700 for infant care. In the suburbs I paid $1450 for infant care. I don't know anyone who paid 1300 except for I think you and one of my friends who used a home daycare. Centers are ridiculously high for infants.

[tacosforlife]

Feb 11, 2016 8:46:48 GMT -5 cookiemdough said:

Feb 10, 2016 22:57:54 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

Holy crap, that is highway robbery childcare! In the DC area, we only would have had to pay around $1300 a month for an infant in full time care (she went part time as an infant). 

I thought the part about the Lanham Act and being able to have state funded childcare was really enlightening and disheartening that we no longer do it.

In the city people pay as much as $1700 for infant care. In the suburbs I paid $1450 for infant care. I don't know anyone who paid 1300 except for I think you and one of my friends who used a home daycare. Centers are ridiculously high for infants.

BB's use of "the DC area" is a loose term if we're talking prices. It absolutely is not indicative of what prices are in the District and the first ring suburbs.

[aurora]

Feb 11, 2016 6:31:13 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Feb 10, 2016 23:54:02 GMT -5 isabel said:

Because women are paid like .60 cents for every dollar a man makes?

The article states that about 40% of women are primary breadwinners in their households. Not a majority, but not insignificant either. The poster above specifically mentioned the wife's paycheck. Husbands don't automatically earn more and no one ever seems to assume that the husband's paycheck would get sacrificed. And even if the wife earns less, stepping back from her career may have more detrimental effects for the household, particularly when it comes to benefits.

Not to mention there are households headed up by two married women too.

There is also biology; I think some people figure as long as she is staying home 4-6 weeks to recover from the birth she might as well keep doing so, and we've all talked about difficulties orking while nursing.

Really though it all comes down to our (pervasive) belief that women should b caregivers.

[cookiemdough]

Not only is the assumption that women have the luxury of not working, but the system for childcare is horrible. The hours are not flexible, there needs to be options that consider commute times in big cities, there needs to be options that consider not everyone works a traditional day schedule and then the school days and activities need to reflect that parents work and that there may have a single adult in the home.

If people work from 9-5:30 standard day why the hell are there so many daycares in the DC area closing at 6:00pm? You can't commute home in 30 minutes. Why the hell do summer camps have even shorter hours? My hours don't change in the summer. Thank you for squeezing out after care money for pick ups after 4 pm.

I really think everything is set up to make working moms say fuck it. But you can't because YOU NEED TO MAKE MONEY TO LIVE.

Yes I am having a moment.

[karinothing]

Feb 11, 2016 8:57:24 GMT -5 cookiemdough said:

Not only is the assumption that women have the luxury of not working, but the system for childcare is horrible. The hours are not flexible, there needs to be options that consider commute times in big cities, there needs to be options that consider not everyone works a traditional day schedule and then the school days and activities need to reflect that parents work and that there may have a single adult in the home.

If people work from 9-5:30 standard day why the hell are there so many daycares in the DC area closing at 6:00pm? You can't commute home in 30 minutes. Why the hell do summer camps have even shorter hours? My hours don't change in the summer. Thank you for squeezing out after care money for pick ups after 4 pm.

I really think everything is set up to make working moms say fuck it. But you can't because YOU NEED TO MAKE MONEY TO LIVE.

Yes I am having a moment.

This I will agree with 100%. DS1 hasn't started summer camp yet (he is only 4) but I was just looking at some options and there are so many that are half day. HOW IS THAT HELPFUL. I am looking at you zoo camp.

I do have a lot of friends in the burbs and their daycares seem to be open later than the ones close in. Like mine closes at 6pm, but its 10 minutes from the DC border, but my friend lives in leesburg and hers closes at 8pm. So I think they account somewhat for the commute, but even 6pm is pushing it for a lot of people. DH can never do daycare pickup because he gets out of work after 5pm and uses public transit so he doesn't get home till after 6.

[megkat]

Not to mention, all the questions about whether or not a woman is going back to work tend to ignore the reality that some woman choose to continue working because they want to. My DD is almost two- I love her dearly but I have less than zero desire to be a SAHM. I like working. I like going to my office and being with my coworkers and having adult interactions. Even if I could afford not to work (which I can't), I don't want to be at home. But of course you can't actually say that, because then you're a monster who doesn't love your baby enough.

When I was pregnant, I remember my FIL giving me some paternalistic bullshit about how they're only little once, and how much he regrets everything he missed when his were little, and how they're the most important thing, blah blah blah; all trying to convince me that of course I should stay at home with my baby. And all I could think was, why am I the only one this applies to? Why is no one lecturing my husband about all of the things he's going to miss while he's at work?

Ironically enough, my husband actually is a SAHD now. He loves it, and it's the perfect solution for our family. I still can't believe some of the reactions we get from people though when they find out.

[pantsparty]

This is one of those questions I've stopped asking friends because it seems almost in line with, "Are you having another kid?" LOL. The amount my friends pay for daycare is insane. I truly don't know how some of them do it.

[penguingrrl]

Feb 11, 2016 8:57:24 GMT -5 cookiemdough said:

Not only is the assumption that women have the luxury of not working, but the system for childcare is horrible. The hours are not flexible, there needs to be options that consider commute times in big cities, there needs to be options that consider not everyone works a traditional day schedule and then the school days and activities need to reflect that parents work and that there may have a single adult in the home.

If people work from 9-5:30 standard day why the hell are there so many daycares in the DC area closing at 6:00pm? You can't commute home in 30 minutes. Why the hell do summer camps have even shorter hours? My hours don't change in the summer. Thank you for squeezing out after care money for pick ups after 4 pm.

I really think everything is set up to make working moms say fuck it. But you can't because YOU NEED TO MAKE MONEY TO LIVE.

Yes I am having a moment.

My H works 8-5:30, which seems standard to me. But his commute is 2 hours each way (thanks NJ transit for slowing trains down; in the 80s my father's train ride was 55 minutes, the same line now is 87 minutes), which is standard for my area since most people live here due to relatively lower housing costs and commute to NYC. By the school before/aftercare program is only available 7a-6p, as though by magic people can stagger their work hours or otherwise find a way to only be gone 11 hours and those who are gone longer just like it. It would be lovely if either there was affordable housing closer to work or school/daycare/camp understood that people aren't necessarily choosing to be away so long but there aren't options.

[simpsongal]

Why haven't I heard a more thorough discussion of this issue from the candidates? In the debates, even HRC just says "we need paid family leave" - but I want to here WHY. B/c the why and the truth about the problem show that this is a HUGE problem for our country, not just women.

[karinothing]

Feb 11, 2016 9:18:02 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

Feb 11, 2016 8:30:13 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Yes, I am paying $2100 for infant care.  But I also think outside the beltway is no longer DC area

Hey! It's the DC metropolitan area! Plenty of people here commute into the city, too. My dad used to commute from Loudoun County into the Pentagon!

What do you pay for your DS1?

If a second child cost us $2100 on top of the $1200 (well, I guess it would end up being $1000 because we get a discount when a second child enrolls), that would leave me $200 of my paycheck. I would literally be working to put my kids in daycare. 

Well, I mean my coworkers commute from NC and WV, I don't know if we can use commute as a qualifier for what counts as DC metro ha ha.

DS1 costs 1540. Actually, I lied the current infant price is 2095 or something. No discount for second child. Anyway, so we are paying like 3600 a month or so. Or will be started next month

[tacosforlife]

Feb 11, 2016 9:28:57 GMT -5 ttt said:

Feb 11, 2016 9:18:02 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

Hey! It's the DC metropolitan area! Plenty of people here commute into the city, too. My dad used to commute from Loudoun County into the Pentagon!

What do you pay for your DS1?

If a second child cost us $2100 on top of the $1200 (well, I guess it would end up being $1000 because we get a discount when a second child enrolls), that would leave me $200 of my paycheck. I would literally be working to put my kids in daycare. 

I had a coworker who commuted to Crystal City from West Virginia! Total insanity. Not that I consider WV to be DC metro but people do it, mainly because of the insane COL. 

I think part of the reason daycares in the DC area are so inflexible and have inconvenient hours is because they're catering to the Feds who can leave at 4 pm every day. 

Well, the federal government includes part of WV in the region when calculating locality pay for the DC area.

That's why locality pay for Chicago area federal employees is HIGHER than for DC, which is utter bullshit. I only had to take a $3,000 paycut when I moved, but my rent went down $12,000/year. It's insane. Essentially, the feds are overpaying a handful of people in Baltimore and in parts of WV as a tradeoff to underpay all the people working in DC.

[cookiemdough]

Feb 11, 2016 9:28:57 GMT -5 ttt said:

Feb 11, 2016 9:18:02 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

Hey! It's the DC metropolitan area! Plenty of people here commute into the city, too. My dad used to commute from Loudoun County into the Pentagon!

What do you pay for your DS1?

If a second child cost us $2100 on top of the $1200 (well, I guess it would end up being $1000 because we get a discount when a second child enrolls), that would leave me $200 of my paycheck. I would literally be working to put my kids in daycare. 

I had a coworker who commuted to Crystal City from West Virginia! Total insanity. Not that I consider WV to be DC metro but people do it, mainly because of the insane COL. 

I think part of the reason daycares in the DC area are so inflexible and have inconvenient hours is because they're catering to the Feds who can leave at 4 pm every day. 

I can't leave work at 4

But it assumes also that schools start at a certain time that would allow you to get your kid off, go to work and all be home within time to pick them up. My son's school doesn't even start until after 8:30. So I can't start a workday between 7-8 to allow me to get off at 4. Also I can't leave at 4 anyway. I don't mean to make it all about me but that it what is frustrating about how stuff is structured here. It makes a lot of assumptions that leave out many families and leave a lot of people struggling to parse together care.

[tacosforlife]

Feb 11, 2016 9:36:19 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

Feb 11, 2016 9:28:56 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Well, I mean my coworkers commute from NC and WV, I don't know if we can use commute as a qualifier for what counts as DC metro ha ha.

DS1 costs 1540. Actually, I lied the current infant price is 2095 or something. No discount for second child. Anyway, so we are paying like 3600 a month or so. Or will be started next month

Arlington bubble people!! The rest of us find 30 miles NBD. You've all gotten weak and soft living in such luxury! And whatever, tacosforlife , don't you live in a flyover state again?

I don't think you'd find 30 miles NBD if you were commuting to my H's old office in DC. Or to my office, which was just outside the District.

The term flyover state makes me ragey.