Can I get some advice- @ kindergarten related

[Deleted]

My H and I keep going back and forth on this.  The kid misses the cutoff for K by a couple weeks. We do not qualify for pre-k through our district (it is only open to at risk students). So our options are:

1.Private pre-k, there are 2 full day options in our neighbor both are nice, I didn't like either of them more than the other, both are pricey but we could swing it, but money will be tight for that year. 

2.Private half day pre school + we would have to find a new daycare provider to shuttle her back and forth, and we have quite a few options for half day pre school, but I haven't actually checked any of them out in person. 

3.Advanced placement in K. (K is half day) We have already filled out the pre qualification packet and plan on having her tested but we haven't decided if we really want to do this. Our district allows advanced placement for kids that test as G&T. Now I don't know if my kid is G&T but I think she is at the same level as our god daughter, who is only a few months older than our kid, and she will be starting K in the fall.  In this scenario I would also have to find new daycare that offers to take her to and from.

4: We could keep her in her current daycare. We do love the provider but it's in our old neighborhood so far away from our current home, and while they do preschool activities it's not a classroom structure which I think would be important for our kiddo to get used to. We are not planning to do this option but it is there if we need it. 

I've talked to moms that both are glad they did advanced placement and a couple that regret it. I know there are advantages to being one of the older kids in the class but I do think she is ready.  I have 2 friends that I grew up/graduated with both with Sept. birthdays, a year apart form each other, and they both had good experiences with school, the younger one didn't like getting her driver's license later than everyone else but she said that was the only drawback. 

Sorry for rambling. I didn't realize that putting my kid into school would be this stressful. And my H is being super unhelpful and has kind of left it to me to make the decision. Anyone want to give me advice, antidotes, gifs....

[hopecounts]

I would respect the cut off and send her to pre school either full day or half day.
There is a big leap in expectations in kindy and I wouldn't want to start my kid off with having to potentially struggle.
Your earliest school experiences impact so much of how you view school and your self in terms of smarts.
Set her up for success and let her have a transition year in pre-k/preschool and she can go into kindy excited and confident and continue to succeed
With the ridiculous reading expectations and 90 minute blocks of solid class time and minimal recess I wouldn't go out of my way to start my kid early.

[sfy]

I would go with #3 because why not if you think she's ready? There are so many advantages to getting a child out on the G&T track, so if she can pass the test, I can see no good reason why she should miss out on the benefits. Bonus is it's MM. If you see that she is not adjusting well socially after awhile, you can always pull her out if you feel compelled to do so, but I think it's worth a shot.

My second choice would be half private preschool, half day care. Pros are that it provides a nice transition before kindergarten, but will not cause money to be as tight as doing it for a full day. I think it's a good compromise.

It sounds like #4 shouldn't be on the list anyway and I wouldn't want money to be tight when there are other strong options.

[mrsdewinter]

My daughter's birthday is exactly 2 weeks after the cutoff. I was really annoyed that she couldn't start K when I thought she was ready and had to do another year of preschool. Trying to test her into K early was complicated and expensive, and private K wasn't an option.

So she did the extra year of preschool. And honestly, with the way early elementary school has become so much more academic and less play-based, I'm glad she had that extra year to be a little kid and play dress up and make handprint pictures. Right now she's in 1st grade and having a hard time with how little play they get and how much seat work and homework it entails. If she were a year younger, it would only be that much harder.

Just our experience though, YMMV.

[tres3]

I hate red shirting but i think you respect the cut off and just keep her in daycare another year or a pre-k program

[hopecounts]

You can request she be tested for G&T at anytime so if you think it is appropriate you can have her tested next year

[mouse]

Are any of the options more (intentional) play based? Not just daycare let the kids run around and do whatever, but skill and motor building play? That's the most developmentally appropriate, imo. I'd avoid going "academic" or whatever term justifies giving 4 and 5 year olds a bunch of worksheets as long as possible.

[gretchenindisguise]

I'm a September b-day and was younger than all but 1 classmate. I succeeded/thrived just fine. If your kiddo is ready and passes the assessment, I'd probably go forth with that option.

If she doesn't, or you decide not to pursue that - I'd go for private pre-K full day given your other options.

[hopecounts]

Feb 11, 2016 18:07:12 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

I'm a September b-day and was younger than all but 1 classmate. I succeeded/thrived just fine. If your kiddo is ready and passes the assessment, I'd probably go forth with that option.

If she doesn't, or you decide not to pursue that - I'd go for private pre-K full day given your other options.

You didn't have to live up to CC standards.
Our kindy experience was developmentally appropriate for a young 5 today's kindy isn't.
Kindy kids today aren't learning letters and numbers and playing centers like we did they are having to read and do actual math, with one recess a day and no play breaks it's a completely different experience

[Deleted]

Went through something similar with my son, although he did make the cut-off (barely) and his birthday is in December (our cutoff date is Jan 1st). We have full day K and knowing he'd be 4 for almost half the year was hard for me. Academically I know he could handle it. Socially/emotionally I don't think being the youngest would benefit him at all - however, that is his personality and girls are often more mature in that sense than boys. I was more worried about down the road when things get tougher in MS/HS and also the thought of him being 17 his entire first semester of college was also something I kept in mind. My brother went to K on time despite my mom's reservations and struggled later on down the road so that was also a factor in my decision.

I spoke with the director of his preschool about it last year and what she told me was that in her years of experience, she's found that some parents regret sending their kid to K too soon but none have regretted holding them the extra year. Since she doesn't make the cutoff and knowing what school is like now, I would personally send her to pre-K (either half or full day) for the next year and to K on schedule. But, obviously, so much is dependent on her personality and abilities. Having her tested is a good idea.

For my own anecdote, I am completely at peace now with our decision to send DS to one more year of preschool. I compare how he was last year when he was the youngest in his class to this year when he's one of the oldest (there are still a couple older than him) and for him, I think it was absolutely the right choice so that he will be more mature socially and emotionally when he starts elementary school.


What I mostly took out of it is that I wish our state would move their cutoff date to Sept 1 because I think it's more appropriate now. I looked at my own K report card and I had to learn how to write my first name in the first semester and my last name in the second semester. It is just so not like that anymore that I think every kid should be 5 or very close to it by the time school starts at the end of August.

TL;DR - You know your kid best and if you think she's ready you could try to send her early, but ultimately, you probably wouldn't have any regrets if you decided to give her another year of pre-K.

[gardengal]

I would respect the cutoff & let your kid be a kid.

What is expected from my kindergartener his own teacher tells us isn't really developmentally appropriate for 5yos.

[eclaires]

Our district has the same set up and I've been told the GT qualfication for incoming K is pretty hard to meet and the test is pretty difficult. Per our principal, in her 7 years at the school, one kid has qualified and he was reading at like a 3rd grade level. It may be different in your district, though.

[gretchenindisguise]

Feb 11, 2016 18:08:17 GMT -5 hopecounts said:

Feb 11, 2016 18:07:12 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

I'm a September b-day and was younger than all but 1 classmate. I succeeded/thrived just fine. If your kiddo is ready and passes the assessment, I'd probably go forth with that option.

If she doesn't, or you decide not to pursue that - I'd go for private pre-K full day given your other options.

You didn't have to live up to CC standards.
Our kindy experience was developmentally appropriate for a young 5 today's kindy isn't.
Kindy kids today aren't learning letters and numbers and playing centers like we did they are having to read and do actual math, with one recess a day and no play breaks it's a completely different experience

Very true.

I just don't think there's a real substantial difference developmentally in a kid born a couple of weeks after a cut off. I know they have to be established, but they feel arbitrary. I feel like they should all come with a +/-.

[mrsdewinter]

Feb 11, 2016 18:08:17 GMT -5 hopecounts said:

Feb 11, 2016 18:07:12 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

I'm a September b-day and was younger than all but 1 classmate. I succeeded/thrived just fine. If your kiddo is ready and passes the assessment, I'd probably go forth with that option.

If she doesn't, or you decide not to pursue that - I'd go for private pre-K full day given your other options.

You didn't have to live up to CC standards.
Our kindy was developmentally appropriate for a young 5 today's kindy isn't

This is what I was going to say too.

[hopecounts]

Feb 11, 2016 18:12:46 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

Feb 11, 2016 18:08:17 GMT -5 hopecounts said:

You didn't have to live up to CC standards.
Our kindy experience was developmentally appropriate for a young 5 today's kindy isn't.
Kindy kids today aren't learning letters and numbers and playing centers like we did they are having to read and do actual math, with one recess a day and no play breaks it's a completely different experience

Very true.

I just don't think there's a real substantial difference developmentally in a kid born a couple of weeks after a cut off. I know they have to be established, but they feel arbitrary. I feel like they should all come with a +/-.

There isn't but even a kid meeting the cut off is going to struggle with the current expectations take a kid who is even less likely to be able to keep up and you are kind of setting your kid up for a tough experience.
And then you could end up facing the dilemma of deciding whether they should repeat kindy and suffer the consequences of retention or push them through knowing they may continue to struggle until 3rd grade.
Waiting has no negatives and a number of positives sending early has a number of negatives and only a small positive

[gretchenindisguise]

Feb 11, 2016 18:15:57 GMT -5 hopecounts said:

Feb 11, 2016 18:12:46 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

Very true.

I just don't think there's a real substantial difference developmentally in a kid born a couple of weeks after a cut off. I know they have to be established, but they feel arbitrary. I feel like they should all come with a +/-.

There isn't but even a kid meeting the cut off is going to struggle with the current expectations take a kid who is even less likely to be able to keep up and you are kind of setting your kid up for a tough experience.
And then you could end up facing the dilemma of deciding whether they should repeat kindy and suffer the consequences of retention or push them through knowing they may continue to struggle until 3rd grade.
Waiting has no negatives and a number of positives sending early has a number of negatives and only a small positive

Why would this be "a kid who is even less likely to be able to keep up" if it's a kid that is tested G&T?

[hopecounts]

Because to be G&T means a unique thinker not necessarily IQ smart or advanced.
With inappropriate expectations it is no certainty of success

[gretchenindisguise]

Feb 11, 2016 18:32:13 GMT -5 hopecounts said:

Because to be G&T means just ahead of appropriate expectations CC is not appropriate so
She can be G&T and still not meet the expectations.

Huh, that's interesting. So they're not testing for G&T within the same systems?

[hopecounts]

Feb 11, 2016 18:33:33 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

Feb 11, 2016 18:32:13 GMT -5 hopecounts said:

Because to be G&T means just ahead of appropriate expectations CC is not appropriate so
She can be G&T and still not meet the expectations.

Huh, that's interesting. So they're not testing for G&T within the same systems?

Nope it's one of the big issues with CC even a G&T kid can
Struggle because certain skills just don't come until certain developmental stages, IQ is one element but primarily they are looking for critical thinkers more then IQ rather then any specific knowledges because at this age knowledge is
Typically a function of memorization more then smarts

[hopecounts]

I should add they test for G&T for early entrance because it allows them to put the kid on an IEP and bypass the state regs it's a way around the rule because placement is controlled by the IEP under IDEA so they can ignore the cut off that way.
Ideally it does work to appropriately place the kid but it's not a skills test so it may or may not function appropriately for that.

[berrysweet]

Feb 11, 2016 18:25:26 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

Feb 11, 2016 18:15:57 GMT -5 hopecounts said:

There isn't but even a kid meeting the cut off is going to struggle with the current expectations take a kid who is even less likely to be able to keep up and you are kind of setting your kid up for a tough experience.
And then you could end up facing the dilemma of deciding whether they should repeat kindy and suffer the consequences of retention or push them through knowing they may continue to struggle until 3rd grade.
Waiting has no negatives and a number of positives sending early has a number of negatives and only a small positive

Why would this be "a kid who is even less likely to be able to keep up" if it's a kid that is tested G&T?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the original post said that she hasn't tested G&T but *could* pursue that option.

FWIW, my daughter has a January birthday and is in Kindergarten this year. She has always been towards the top of her class, and probably would have been fine in Kinder last year when it came to academics. However, I agree with others that Kinder now is very different than Kinder when we grew up, and I think just the level of structure and focused learning time rather than play time may have been hard for her last year--honestly, it's kind of hard for her this year, and she's one of the oldest kids in her class.

[gretchenindisguise]

Feb 11, 2016 18:43:25 GMT -5 berrysweet said:

Feb 11, 2016 18:25:26 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

Why would this be "a kid who is even less likely to be able to keep up" if it's a kid that is tested G&T?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the original post said that she hasn't tested G&T but *could* pursue that option.

FWIW, my daughter has a January birthday and is in Kindergarten this year. She has always been towards the top of her class, and probably would have been fine in Kinder last year when it came to academics. However, I agree with others that Kinder now is very different than Kinder when we grew up, and I think just the level of structure and focused learning time rather than play time may have been hard for her last year--honestly, it's kind of hard for her this year, and she's one of the oldest kids in her class.

I read the OP as - get her tested and if she is determined to be G&T - place her early. If not then that option disappears. That's how I worded my initial response too.

I didn't realize that the assessment for G&T hasn't been aligned with CC standards.

[hopecounts]

Feb 11, 2016 18:49:34 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

Feb 11, 2016 18:43:25 GMT -5 berrysweet said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the original post said that she hasn't tested G&T but *could* pursue that option.

FWIW, my daughter has a January birthday and is in Kindergarten this year. She has always been towards the top of her class, and probably would have been fine in Kinder last year when it came to academics. However, I agree with others that Kinder now is very different than Kinder when we grew up, and I think just the level of structure and focused learning time rather than play time may have been hard for her last year--honestly, it's kind of hard for her this year, and she's one of the oldest kids in her class.

I read the OP as - get her tested and if she is determined to be G&T - place her early. If not then that option disappears. That's how I worded my initial response too.

I didn't realize that the assessment for G&T hasn't been aligned with CC standards.

The issue is it CAN'T be aligned because no reputable Psych is going to write a developmentally inappropriate test which it would have to be it would get them censored.
It's why psych tests are normed for certain ages because it is inappropriate to evaluate a kid on expectations they shouldn't be meeting.

[epphd]

Feb 11, 2016 18:43:25 GMT -5 berrysweet said:

Feb 11, 2016 18:25:26 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

Why would this be "a kid who is even less likely to be able to keep up" if it's a kid that is tested G&T?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the original post said that she hasn't tested G&T but *could* pursue that option.

FWIW, my daughter has a January birthday and is in Kindergarten this year. She has always been towards the top of her class, and probably would have been fine in Kinder last year when it came to academics. However, I agree with others that Kinder now is very different than Kinder when we grew up, and I think just the level of structure and focused learning time rather than play time may have been hard for her last year--honestly, it's kind of hard for her this year, and she's one of the oldest kids in her class.

I've got about the same thing here - mine turned 6 the day after Christmas. He's advanced in his class (MAP testing in the 99% for math and 96% for reading). I suspect he could have tackled K last year but - one of the reasons he's doing well, I think, is because he had that year of 4.5-5.5 to be in pre-K.

As far as G&T testing, we had him take a CogAt screening exam in October to see if he'd be selected for an advanced learners school. I'm not sure what his score was but I know he didn't advance. And honestly he's loving school now and I am not sure I'd have switched him anyway.

I agree that K is very different than when we were growing up. Kids are expected to be independently reading by the end of it - which was definitely not the case for kiddos of the 70s/80s.

[berrysweet]

Feb 11, 2016 18:57:39 GMT -5 epphd said:

As far as G&T testing, we had him take a CogAt screening exam in October to see if he'd be selected for an advanced learners school. I'm not sure what his score was but I know he didn't advance. And honestly he's loving school now and I am not sure I'd have switched him anyway.

I agree that K is very different than when we were growing up. Kids are expected to be independently reading by the end of it - which was definitely not the case for kiddos of the 70s/80s.

We live near my BIL and SIL, and our youngest girls are about two months apart. Their daughter started preschool this year, ours couldn't because her birthday is after the cutoff. They're at basically the same point developmentally and academically, so I do get that it feels a little arbitrary. But after seeing what Kindergarten has been like for my older daughter, I'm A-OKAY with her holding off starting as long as possible.

Also, I was one of the youngest kids in my graduating class, and then I finished college in 3 years. I had a *really* hard time convincing employers to give me a shot because of my age, even though I had the grades/academic qualifications/internships to be qualified. I mean, I was barely 20. I do kinda get it.

[tres3]

Feb 11, 2016 18:25:26 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

Feb 11, 2016 18:15:57 GMT -5 hopecounts said:

There isn't but even a kid meeting the cut off is going to struggle with the current expectations take a kid who is even less likely to be able to keep up and you are kind of setting your kid up for a tough experience.
And then you could end up facing the dilemma of deciding whether they should repeat kindy and suffer the consequences of retention or push them through knowing they may continue to struggle until 3rd grade.
Waiting has no negatives and a number of positives sending early has a number of negatives and only a small positive

Why would this be "a kid who is even less likely to be able to keep up" if it's a kid that is tested G&T?

You can have an IQ and still not have the executive functioning skills to function in today's Kindergarten class.

Another thing to consider is there will be boys in her class probably upwards of 18 mos older than she is. Are you ready for that in middle and high school? 

DS2 is the youngest boy in his class (2 girls are a week younger). In 2d grade the next youngest boy in his class was 10 mos older. 10 mos is a lifetime when you are 7. 

[epphd]

Feb 11, 2016 19:13:27 GMT -5 berrysweet said:

Feb 11, 2016 18:57:39 GMT -5 epphd said:

As far as G&T testing, we had him take a CogAt screening exam in October to see if he'd be selected for an advanced learners school. I'm not sure what his score was but I know he didn't advance. And honestly he's loving school now and I am not sure I'd have switched him anyway.

I agree that K is very different than when we were growing up. Kids are expected to be independently reading by the end of it - which was definitely not the case for kiddos of the 70s/80s.

We live near my BIL and SIL, and our youngest girls are about two months apart. Their daughter started preschool this year, ours couldn't because her birthday is after the cutoff. They're at basically the same point developmentally and academically, so I do get that it feels a little arbitrary. But after seeing what Kindergarten has been like for my older daughter, I'm A-OKAY with her holding off starting as long as possible.

Also, I was one of the youngest kids in my graduating class, and then I finished college in 3 years. I had a *really* hard time convincing employers to give me a shot because of my age, even though I had the grades/academic qualifications/internships to be qualified. I mean, I was barely 20. I do kinda get it.

Totally agree. One of Sam's pals has a 9/2 birthday. cutoff is 9/1. Schools would NOT budge. Kiddo had psych eval and IQ testing and was performing at end-of-K expectations when he was 4.5. But the school said his "penmanship" wasn't up to snuff so they wouldn't admit him. I totally get it being arbitrary and annoying. And like you, I started K at 4 (end October birthday) and did just fine. But it does all even out. I thought of it this way - I'd rather my kiddo excel early on and develop a sense of confidence and love of school -- and possibly enrich as we go, then for him to "manage" or "hang in there" by going a year early. I never considered trying to get Sam in early anyway - I wasn't totally convinced he could hang.

In the last year, as an aside, I have met some of the parents at the advanced learners school. Many are gunners who measure their self worth by their kids' grades or achievements. So from a totally selfish standpoint - no thanks

[irishbride2]

Honestly half day k, IME, is not something I would advance into. They crunch a whole day of standards into a few hours and cut out most of the play and such which is important for that age. So although I would be willing to advance into K, I would not advance into half day k.

[gretchenindisguise]

Feb 11, 2016 19:20:41 GMT -5 tres3 said:

Feb 11, 2016 18:25:26 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

Why would this be "a kid who is even less likely to be able to keep up" if it's a kid that is tested G&T?

You can have an IQ and still not have the executive functioning skills to function in today's Kindergarten class.

Another thing to consider is there will be boys in her class probably upwards of 18 mos older than she is. Are you ready for that in middle and high school? 

DS2 is the youngest boy in his class (2 girls are a week younger). In 2d grade the next youngest boy in his class was 10 mos older. 10 mos is a lifetime when you are 7. 

Yeah, I didn't realize g&t testing was solely iq based. I thought they took other things into consideration, but it appears I was wrong.

[tres3]

Feb 11, 2016 19:35:09 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

Feb 11, 2016 19:20:41 GMT -5 tres3 said:

You can have an IQ and still not have the executive functioning skills to function in today's Kindergarten class.

Another thing to consider is there will be boys in her class probably upwards of 18 mos older than she is. Are you ready for that in middle and high school? 

DS2 is the youngest boy in his class (2 girls are a week younger). In 2d grade the next youngest boy in his class was 10 mos older. 10 mos is a lifetime when you are 7. 

Yeah, I didn't realize g&t testing was solely iq based. I thought they took other things into consideration, but it appears I was wrong.

It really varies by district and state. Our district there is a matrix they use and you get points based on IQ but you need at least a 118 to be considered, along with performance on achievement tests (again points depending on how many areas you score certain percentile--for example you can qualify based on being 95% or higher in 2 areas or 90% or higher in 4  areas. They also give points for creativity based on the Torrence test, etc.  My middle kid scored maximum points for IQ but didn't get any points for achievement because he was only 99% in math and nothing else was remotely that strong (which is whole other issue because he probably should have been identified dyslexia a lot sooner).