Post by runforrest on Feb 12, 2016 13:22:53 GMT -5
I'm becoming more and more discouraged about this election, to the point that I feel panicky. I do not understand how Bernie Sanders has so much support when he is practically promising everyone a free pony. HOW do Americans not understand that he is full of empty promises?
I appreciate his passion for free college, universal healthcare, etc., but do not most adults understand that as President, he would have to work with Congress (i.e., Republicans) to get things done? The President is not a dictator, and can't just waltz into the Oval and make sweeping changes.
It's just infuriating and I'm starting to worry.
Are we really stupid enough to have a general election of Sanders v. Trump?
God, I am right up there on the ledge with you. Everything you said is something I've wondered too. I literally cannot believe that Hillary actually might not get the nomination, much less win the general election. CANNOT.
And if Bloomberg gets into the Democratic race, I'm going to want to shank him. Getting into the general, if Sanders gets the nom, is one thing. If he gets in the primary race (which is now what it sounds like he's investigating), ALL that's going to do is take votes away from Hillary.
God, I am right up there on the ledge with you. Everything you said is something I've wondered too. I literally cannot believe that Hillary actually might not get the nomination, much less win the general election. CANNOT.
And if Bloomberg gets into the Democratic race, I'm going to want to shank him. Getting into the general, if Sanders gets the nom, is one thing. If he gets in the primary race (which is now what it sounds like he's investigating), ALL that's going to do is take votes away from Hillary.
I've only read that he would get into the general as an independent not in the dem primary. I think it's too late for that anyway. And in any case he has said (or his people anyway) he won't run against HRC.
God, I am right up there on the ledge with you. Everything you said is something I've wondered too. I literally cannot believe that Hillary actually might not get the nomination, much less win the general election. CANNOT.
And if Bloomberg gets into the Democratic race, I'm going to want to shank him. Getting into the general, if Sanders gets the nom, is one thing. If he gets in the primary race (which is now what it sounds like he's investigating), ALL that's going to do is take votes away from Hillary.
Bloomberg is an Independent. He wouldn't get into the Dem race.
I've only read that he would get into the general as an independent not in the dem primary. I think it's too late for that anyway. And in any case he has said (or his people anyway) he won't run against HRC.
Still not helpful, as that will guarantee a Republican victory.
Of course it's not helpful! It would be terrible. It would absolutely mean Rs would win. The question is will Bernie win? The answer for me today is: no.
I believe nothing about anything until after Super Tuesday.
Yes!! I don't know why you ladies insist on stressing yourselves out already. Election season is a marathon, not a sprint. Pop a Xanax and chill for a few weeks, at least.
Post by imojoebunny on Feb 12, 2016 14:14:06 GMT -5
Claps... This has been on my mind too. I read a blog post a while back to the effect that democracy is doomed to fail when the divide between the "I want to keep all my money" and the "I don't have anything, I want a free pony" becomes too great.
I don't want to believe it, I am not a doomsday kind of person, but neither one of those candidates is going to be an effective, positive leader, and if those are the choices, I would like a box on the ballot for "let's skip having a president for 4 years".
Post by mrsukyankee on Feb 12, 2016 14:14:19 GMT -5
I am somewhat worried because a bunch of very well educated women I know are seriously into Sanders. I just don't think they are doing due diligence around this. And they even had answers for any posting I've put out there (including the one where he was putting down Obama).
Post by penguingrrl on Feb 12, 2016 14:21:14 GMT -5
A friend's husband said flat out last night that he won't support Hillary over Sanders because Hillary feels universal healthcare isn't realistic and Sanders is going to make it happen. When I realized just how shallow his understanding was I was aghast. He's an intelligent man and usually pretty realistic, but that is determining his vote and there's no convincing him that Sanders can't just snap his fingers and make it happen.
I'm pretty sure he's fairly well representative of the US population and it's quite scary. I don't disagree with the merits on universal healthcare, but realize just how limited a president's power actually is.
I am somewhat worried because a bunch of very well educated women I know are seriously into Sanders. I just don't think they are doing due diligence around this. And they even had answers for any posting I've put out there (including the one where he was putting down Obama).
Politically it's just a bad move to trash talk the sitting president who happens to also be the first black president and has a 90% favorability rating with the black community when you are desperately trying to broaden your base beyond white people. Morally or ethically wrong? No....? But It also displays a sense of racial insensitivity as his complaint about Obama was that he wasn't an effective leader or some such. But Obama faced an onslaught of attacks and anger that could have only been because of his race. For a white man to not recognize this is just...insensitive and obtuse.
A friend's husband said flat out last night that he won't support Hillary over Sanders because Hillary feels universal healthcare isn't realistic and Sanders is going to make it happen. When I realized just how shallow his understanding was I was aghast. He's an intelligent man and usually pretty realistic, but that is determining his vote and there's no convincing him that Sanders can't just snap his fingers and make it happen.
I'm pretty sure he's fairly well representative of the US population and it's quite scary. I don't disagree with the merits on universal healthcare, but realize just how limited a president's power actually is.
First of all: UHC is not single payer healthcare. The plan under Obamacare is to have 100% coverage. And HRC wants to improve Obsmacare to make UHC happen.
Second: we have a long way to go to Nov and I believe that a lot of these democratic "I will never vote for HRC!" types will eventually rally behind the D nominee.
Just as all this anger we feel for BS will probably also subside to a degree should he get the nom.
I am somewhat worried because a bunch of very well educated women I know are seriously into Sanders. I just don't think they are doing due diligence around this. And they even had answers for any posting I've put out there (including the one where he was putting down Obama).
Politically it's just a bad move to trash talk the sitting president who happens to also be the first black president and has a 90% favorability rating with the black community when you are desperately trying to broaden your base beyond white people. Morally or ethically wrong? No....? But It also displays a sense of racial insensitivity as his complaint about Obama was that he wasn't an effective leader or some such. But Obama faced an onslaught of attacks and anger that could have only been because of his race. For a white man to not recognize this is just...insensitive and obtuse.
This was what I was trying to say...they said he explained everything in the debate (which, of course, being in London, I didn't see) or that it wasn't so bad.
A friend's husband said flat out last night that he won't support Hillary over Sanders because Hillary feels universal healthcare isn't realistic and Sanders is going to make it happen. When I realized just how shallow his understanding was I was aghast. He's an intelligent man and usually pretty realistic, but that is determining his vote and there's no convincing him that Sanders can't just snap his fingers and make it happen.
I'm pretty sure he's fairly well representative of the US population and it's quite scary. I don't disagree with the merits on universal healthcare, but realize just how limited a president's power actually is.
First of all: UHC is not single payer healthcare. The plan under Obamacare is to have 100% coverage. And HRC wants to improve Obsmacare to make UHC happen.
Second: we have a long way to go to Nov and I believe that a lot of these democratic "I will never vote for HRC!" types will eventually rally behind the D nominee.
Just as all this anger we feel for BS will probably also subside to a degree should he get the nom.
Oh, I know the differences. I'm shocked that he doesn't and he's spouting so badly.
But, he's also a feminist and has a daughter, so come November he's voting for Hillary since she'll be on the ballot and he would never risk SCOTUS over preferring Bernie. I suspect most Berners will reach that conclusion over time.
First of all: UHC is not single payer healthcare. The plan under Obamacare is to have 100% coverage. And HRC wants to improve Obsmacare to make UHC happen.
Second: we have a long way to go to Nov and I believe that a lot of these democratic "I will never vote for HRC!" types will eventually rally behind the D nominee.
Just as all this anger we feel for BS will probably also subside to a degree should he get the nom.
Oh, I know the differences. I'm shocked that he doesn't and he's spouting so badly.
But, he's also a feminist and has a daughter, so come November he's voting for Hillary since she'll be on the ballot and he would never risk SCOTUS over preferring Bernie. I suspect most Berners will reach that conclusion over time.
I think older Berners will come around. The younger ones will stay home and pout because they didn't get their way.
Politically it's just a bad move to trash talk the sitting president who happens to also be the first black president and has a 90% favorability rating with the black community when you are desperately trying to broaden your base beyond white people. Morally or ethically wrong? No....? But It also displays a sense of racial insensitivity as his complaint about Obama was that he wasn't an effective leader or some such. But Obama faced an onslaught of attacks and anger that could have only been because of his race. For a white man to not recognize this is just...insensitive and obtuse.
This was what I was trying to say...they said he explained everything in the debate (which, of course, being in London, I didn't see) or that it wasn't so bad.
But I'm going to copy what you said in hopes...
And it's not as if he pointed out a specific policy that he disagreed with. He called into question his leadership skills generally. That was the "low blow." Disagreeing with a certain proposal as not going far enough? Okay. Calling Obama a bad leader? Bad move.
Never mind the book forward trying or to get Obama primaried....
A friend's husband said flat out last night that he won't support Hillary over Sanders because Hillary feels universal healthcare isn't realistic and Sanders is going to make it happen. When I realized just how shallow his understanding was I was aghast. He's an intelligent man and usually pretty realistic, but that is determining his vote and there's no convincing him that Sanders can't just snap his fingers and make it happen.
I'm pretty sure he's fairly well representative of the US population and it's quite scary. I don't disagree with the merits on universal healthcare, but realize just how limited a president's power actually is.
I wonder if he feels similarly about Bernie hand waving Reparations because it wasn't realistic. Is he as equally upset about that? Or does he not care because it doesn't affect him?
This whole election is so freaky because it's bringing out not only the known biases in people with regards to sexism and racism (i.e. A white man can get it done where a woman and a black man cannot) but also the incredible naivete in them as well. It blows my mind that people think it's so easy to make these things happen.
Again, the Sanders' campaign reminds me so much of the R's campaigns, where they are promising some "return to the white-hetero-Christian-male-dominated past", like it's just that easy to reverse progress and cram a bunch of people back into roles that they've finally broken away from.
Sanders is like a cult leader with his promises of salvation through faux-Socialist Utopia. All you have to do is believe and drink the Koolaid, and everything you want will be given to you.
I haven't asked him about that, mostly because I'm afraid he'll piss me off with his answer.
Oh, I know the differences. I'm shocked that he doesn't and he's spouting so badly.
But, he's also a feminist and has a daughter, so come November he's voting for Hillary since she'll be on the ballot and he would never risk SCOTUS over preferring Bernie. I suspect most Berners will reach that conclusion over time.
I think older Berners will come around. The younger ones will stay home and pout because they didn't get their way.
You're probably right, but I'm hoping that enough get over the disappointment and still show up.
So, I mentioned in the debate thread that I do think we have an element of BEC feeling about Sanders on this board. And I say that even being 100% in the Clinton camp for the primary. But the thought of Sanders eventually being our President doesn't send me into a panic. I think Clinton would be much more effective but I don't think Sanders would destroy the nation, or even be any worse than a number of prior presidents. Racial and gender equality won't more forward as fast as we'd like but probably won't move dramatically backwards.
Now, if your sense of panic is at the idea of Sanders winning the D nom but then one of the crazy R's winning the Presidency, then I can't help you out.
Now, if your sense of panic is at the idea of Sanders winning the D nom but then one of the crazy R's winning the Presidency, then I can't help you out.
This is the source of my panic.
My frustration/ anger/ rage stems from Hillary being the most qualified candidate we've had, maybe since LBJ, and not getting the nomination because she has a vagina.
Claps... This has been on my mind too. I read a blog post a while back to the effect that democracy is doomed to fail when the divide between the "I want to keep all my money" and the "I don't have anything, I want a free pony" becomes too great.
I don't want to believe it, I am not a doomsday kind of person, but neither one of those candidates is going to be an effective, positive leader, and if those are the choices, I would like a box on the ballot for "let's skip having a president for 4 years".