Do you think this about recovery from all major medical events (surgery, etc) or just childbirth?
I guess I don't view birth as a major medical event either. That's why I do it at home and not in a hospital.
I view a c/s as the same as any other surgery. But a vaginal birth, IME, isn't a huge medical event on par with surgery.
Women need to be kind to themselves for a while after the birth. I wouldn't think it would be wise to return to a manual labor job at two weeks PP. But nothing would prevent a woman from sitting at a desk at two weeks out.
Hmmm. I had a vaginal delivery. I couldn't sit on the toilet, must less my desk, at 2 weeks out.
In fact, when I returned to work at 8.5 weeks PP, I still couldn't sit on the toilet. It took me a few months before I was properly healed so I could actually sit without being in serious pain.
Your body might be especially adept at having children. My "near 4th degree" tear when delivering my baby took quite a while to heal and was quite painful. Every birth is different and people heal differently.
I'm disappointed that this is your response. It is completely lacking in compassion.
I guess I don't view birth as a major medical event either. That's why I do it at home and not in a hospital.
I view a c/s as the same as any other surgery. But a vaginal birth, IME, isn't a huge medical event on par with surgery.
Women need to be kind to themselves for a while after the birth. I wouldn't think it would be wise to return to a manual labor job at two weeks PP. But nothing would prevent a woman from sitting at a desk at two weeks out.
Hmmm. I had a vaginal delivery. I couldn't sit on the toilet, must less my desk, at 2 weeks out.
In fact, when I returned to work at 8.5 weeks PP, I still couldn't sit on the toilet. It took me a few months before I was properly healed so I could actually sit without being in serious pain.
Your body might be especially adept at having children. My "near 4th degree" tear when delivering my baby took quite a while to heal and was quite painful. Every birth is different and people heal differently.
I'm disappointed that this is your response. It is completely lacking in compassion. or medical knowledge. or common sense.
Here's my main issue with AW's assertions (I elect to choose just one).
"Women need to be kind to themselves." Which only works in your specific situation. For a woman who, let's say, loses her husband but still must support her newborn, other children, and herself financially, she can want to be as kind to herself as possible. But if her employer won't accommodate enough time to physically recover from childbirth, what do you propose then?
Seriously, for someone so bent on touting a WWJD outlook, you're treating your fellow mothers pretty shitty. How do you think Jesus sees your outlook that "my taxes shouldn't be used to make others' hardships a bit easier?" Your whole myopic focus on your world and your world alone is hardly conducive to sharing Jesus' teachings of loving one another.
I'll wait for your reply.
Well, I wouldn't want you waiting. Lol
See, here's the difference between people like you/others in this thread and people like me. You all want to replace God's Kingdom with man's government, whereas I believe government/taxes are a poor substitute for the Kingdom of God. Whereas y'all feel people should be forced to give what a government mandates as merciful and loving, I feel that people should give freely as God compels them to within the system (the Church with a capital C) that God created. According to people like you, one can only be kind and loving if they support taxation. I think community is the answer.
But whatever, I am just a hick, so what do I know. I'm going to go back to my farm now and snuggle my newborn, then get in some good homeschool lessons for my children about what the Bible says about the government's role to prepare them for the world. Feel sorry for my husband that works so hard because he prefers having me here teaching them that.
Again. And you wonder why you have a hard time at family parties.
FTR, you realize that it does, in fact, take two sources of income to support YOUR family, correct? You have just foisted the entirety of your family's economic survival on to your husband. Its still a two income family.
See, here's the difference between people like you/others in this thread and people like me. You all want to replace God's Kingdom with man's government, whereas I believe government/taxes are a poor substitute for the Kingdom of God. Whereas y'all feel people should be forced to give what a government mandates as merciful and loving, I feel that people should give freely as God compels them to within the system (the Church with a capital C) that God created. According to people like you, one can only be kind and loving if they support taxation. I think community is the answer.
Lol, ok. See, AW, your response above comes from you sweeping into threads every so often to evangelize about your specific faith choices. If you cared at all about not being tone deaf and missing virtually ALL context, you'd know your response is directed to a lifelong church-going Libertarian Lutheran who prefers smaller government.
What I'm getting at is that you slip into threads for infrequent opportunities to... do what, exactly? Remind us of your better lifestyle? Admonish us for ours? Be the board's representation of Jesus?
I assume you pray for others who have hardship, right? If so, great. I think prayer has power. But have you considered that God may answer those prayers by allowing government to use tax dollars to help those in need?
So much for 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.' Matthew 25:40.
See, here's the difference between people like you/others in this thread and people like me. You all want to replace God's Kingdom with man's government, whereas I believe government/taxes are a poor substitute for the Kingdom of God. Whereas y'all feel people should be forced to give what a government mandates as merciful and loving, I feel that people should give freely as God compels them to within the system (the Church with a capital C) that God created. According to people like you, one can only be kind and loving if they support taxation. I think community is the answer.
But whatever, I am just a hick, so what do I know. I'm going to go back to my farm now and snuggle my newborn, then get in some good homeschool lessons for my children about what the Bible says about the government's role to prepare them for the world. Feel sorry for my husband that works so hard because he prefers having me here teaching them that.
But aren't you supposed to submit to Caesar?
That's the verse I've been thinking of... When the Pharisees were trying to trick Jesus into being traitorous towards Rome (so Rome would arrest him). They were trying to get him to say the Jews should not pay taxes. Instead he said, "Render unto Caesar what is Caesars, and unto God the things that are God's."
See, I just don't believe that the sole contribution half the population should be able to make to the world is birthing and raising their own children. I, as do all women, have a broad spectrum of strengths and talents. Many of mine happen to coincide with work available only outside the home. I chose also to have childen because among my skills is raising total badasses, even though I am not in their physical presence 24/7.
So since I generally think propagating our species is a good thing AND I think women should have the freedom to explore and exploit the full measure of their skills (whether or not those skills are best suited to outside work), I wholeheartedly support paid leave to allow women to recover physically and to form essential connections with their children. EVEN THOUGH I plan not to take maternity leave ever again. Please, use my tax dollars. Use my non-tax dollars. Help other women to be their fullest selves, if having children is a part of that. Help men to experience the awesome workplace contributions their female colleages with children will make and help their families to experience stability. Help our daughters and sons to know they have a panoply of options available to them.
Go ahead. Take money I earned and use it for the betterment of everyone. I double dog dare you.
See, I just don't believe that the sole contribution half the population should be able to make to the world is birthing and raising their own children. I, as do all women, have a broad spectrum of strengths and talents. Mine happen to coincide with work available only outside the home. I chose also to have childen because among my skills is raising total badasses, even though I am not in their physical presence 24/7.
So since I generally think propagating our species is a good thing AND I think women should have the freedom to explore and exploit the full measure of their skills (whether or not those skills are best suited to outside work), I wholeheartedly support paid leave to allow women to recover physically and to form essential connections with their children. EVEN THOUGH I plan not to take maternity leave ever again. Please, use my tax dollars. Use my non-tax dollars. Help other women to be their fullest selves, if having children is a part of that. Help men to experience the awesome workplace contributions their female colleages with children will make and help their families to experience stability. Help our daughters and sons to know they have a panoply of options available to them.
Go ahead. Take money I earned and use it for the betterment of everyone. I double dog dare you.
You know, whenever people say things like that, I just look around to all of the women in my life who are in the working world: my kid's pediatrician is a female, his therapist is a female, his teachers have all been female, several judges in my community are female, many social workers I know are female....removing women from the work force would have a huge impact. And not a good one. It just seems strange to have the worldview that no women should work outside of the home and thinking about the practical impact that would have on society at large.
Here's my main issue with AW's assertions (I elect to choose just one).
"Women need to be kind to themselves." Which only works in your specific situation. For a woman who, let's say, loses her husband but still must support her newborn, other children, and herself financially, she can want to be as kind to herself as possible. But if her employer won't accommodate enough time to physically recover from childbirth, what do you propose then?
Seriously, for someone so bent on touting a WWJD outlook, you're treating your fellow mothers pretty shitty. How do you think Jesus sees your outlook that "my taxes shouldn't be used to make others' hardships a bit easier?" Your whole myopic focus on your world and your world alone is hardly conducive to sharing Jesus' teachings of loving one another.
I'll wait for your reply.
Well, I wouldn't want you waiting. Lol
See, here's the difference between people like you/others in this thread and people like me. You all want to replace God's Kingdom with man's government, whereas I believe government/taxes are a poor substitute for the Kingdom of God. Whereas y'all feel people should be forced to give what a government mandates as merciful and loving, I feel that people should give freely as God compels them to within the system (the Church with a capital C) that God created. According to people like you, one can only be kind and loving if they support taxation. I think community is the answer.
But whatever, I am just a hick, so what do I know. I'm going to go back to my farm now and snuggle my newborn, then get in some good homeschool lessons for my children about what the Bible says about the government's role to prepare them for the world. Feel sorry for my husband that works so hard because he prefers having me here teaching them that.
So, you have 5 kids. And the government plays no role in helping you and your super super hardworking husband support them, is what you are saying? So you take none of the tax benefits available in connection with your sizable flock?
I don't want to engage too much. But lurkingaw my midwifes would disagree with your assessment. After my homebirth, I was told not to do any cooking, childcare or cleaning for at least two weeks. They told my H the same thing. Women do need time to heal even if they have uneventful homebirths.
you would think that people who go out of their way to uphold the "sanctity of life" would celebrate the birth of a child a little more and at least recognize it as a major medical event.
no, it's mundane and uninteresting. Some people do it all the time.
See, here's the difference between people like you/others in this thread and people like me. You all want to replace God's Kingdom with man's government, whereas I believe government/taxes are a poor substitute for the Kingdom of God. Whereas y'all feel people should be forced to give what a government mandates as merciful and loving, I feel that people should give freely as God compels them to within the system (the Church with a capital C) that God created. According to people like you, one can only be kind and loving if they support taxation. I think community is the answer.
But whatever, I am just a hick, so what do I know. I'm going to go back to my farm now and snuggle my newborn, then get in some good homeschool lessons for my children about what the Bible says about the government's role to prepare them for the world. Feel sorry for my husband that works so hard because he prefers having me here teaching them that.
Yeah. We do. Because we live in a DEMOCRACY. Not a theocracy.
That's nice that you think all help should be church based. Maybe in your community that works. I'll look forward to your stories of how your church freely gives to Jews, Buddhists, Taoists, Muslims, Atheists, and any person with a different belief system than Christianity, because YAY CHURCH.
When you are homeschooling, don't forget to leave out the all important lesson that the US of A is not a Christian nation. See: The Constitution and Madison and Jefferson's opposition to mixing church and state, for starters.
We live in a time when some private groups want to deny certain people bathroom privileges. Color me incredulous that other private groups, with some not so insignificant overlap between the two, would be willing to aid all women at all times in their most crucial hour.
Post by icedcoffee on Apr 29, 2016 13:23:43 GMT -5
Man, I hate when people use religion as an excuse for being an asshole. You make it hard for those of use who are not assholes to admit to people that we are Christian.
Post by anastasia517 on Apr 29, 2016 14:20:50 GMT -5
My job (for which I accept a regular paycheck) consists of providing medical care for other women's babies, some of whom are ill. I also provide support for mothers who are struggling. So, I work, but I am still caring for children, as God intended, right? I am so confused as to my "place"!
I work as a nanny and have no kids. Is that good because I still take care of kids? Is it bad because their mom isn't at home with them? Does it matter that she is a physician so she spends her time at work saving lives? Maybe their dad should stay at home, like he was for a while after the middle child was born. Or is having me, a female, better than having a man as their primary caregiver?
See, I just don't believe that the sole contribution half the population should be able to make to the world is birthing and raising their own children. I, as do all women, have a broad spectrum of strengths and talents. Mine happen to coincide with work available only outside the home. I chose also to have childen because among my skills is raising total badasses, even though I am not in their physical presence 24/7.
So since I generally think propagating our species is a good thing AND I think women should have the freedom to explore and exploit the full measure of their skills (whether or not those skills are best suited to outside work), I wholeheartedly support paid leave to allow women to recover physically and to form essential connections with their children. EVEN THOUGH I plan not to take maternity leave ever again. Please, use my tax dollars. Use my non-tax dollars. Help other women to be their fullest selves, if having children is a part of that. Help men to experience the awesome workplace contributions their female colleages with children will make and help their families to experience stability. Help our daughters and sons to know they have a panoply of options available to them.
Go ahead. Take money I earned and use it for the betterment of everyone. I double dog dare you.
You know, whenever people say things like that, I just look around to all of the women in my life who are in the working world: my kid's pediatrician is a female, his therapist is a female, his teachers have all been female, several judges in my community are female, many social workers I know are female....removing women from the work force would have a huge impact. And not a good one. It just seems strange to have the worldview that no women should work outside of the home and thinking about the practical impact that would have on society at large.
I believe fundies have problems with male OB's, too...and aren't AW's midwives female? And doing a job?
You know, whenever people say things like that, I just look around to all of the women in my life who are in the working world: my kid's pediatrician is a female, his therapist is a female, his teachers have all been female, several judges in my community are female, many social workers I know are female....removing women from the work force would have a huge impact. And not a good one. It just seems strange to have the worldview that no women should work outside of the home and thinking about the practical impact that would have on society at large.
I believe fundies have problems with male OB's, too...and aren't AW's midwives female? And doing a job?
Yes, they are. Although one is in her sixties and her children are grown and the other is childless.
I think women have much to contribute to the working world. I, myself, will probably go back to work one day when my children are all out of the house if none of them need me for their oen childcare needs or to help with homeschooling. I'm not against women working, I just feel that small children are better served by having their mothers around. Not just through a maternity leave, but through their entire preschool years. There is plenty of time for a career after that. Just my opinion.
Also a fun fact - my dad gave my mom an ultimatum when I was about 18 months old. She either had to go back to work or go back to school - staying home with my brother and I was driving her crazy. I take full credit for her Ph.D. She was a fantastic mom, and is now a fantastic grandma. But she was a better mom when working. I am too. Weird how different things work better for different people, and it's all ok - just different.
One study found that women who took just one year out of the workforce sacrificed 20% of their lifetime earnings. Women who took two or three years earned 30% less. Another study found that leaving the workforce has a significant negative effect on women’s wages even twenty years after a career interruption. These statistics dramatise the grim fact that women who take a career break are penalised out of proportion to any objective deterioration of their skills.
So if women consult the statistics and really crunch the numbers, they will be more wary of opting out of the workforce when their babies arrive. When mothers attempt to get jobs years later, they have a harder time finding work—Ms Williams cites a study showing that only 74% succeed—and they wind up making less money: only 38% of men’s wages over their prime earning years.
There is plenty of time for a career after that. Just my opinion.
That is absolutely not true in many fields. If I left a tenure-track job as a professor for 5-7 years I would almost certainly never get a comparable job (I could maybe work as an extremely underpaid adjunct). I spent my 20s earning a PhD and there's pretty much zero chance I could renter the workforce after 40 if I took years off to raise kids.
So, is your answer that women should not be professors? Or professors should not be mothers?
For mothers trying to get back into the workforce, a 2005 study by the Center for Work-Life Policy revealed tough odds: Forty percent of at-home moms who want to return to work land full-time positions, while another 34 percent find part-time work. Anyone with a work gap longer than a decade is likely to return at the bottom of the ladder, Bianchi said. "You've got to convince somebody to take a chance on you, and you have to have the self-confidence that you can do that."
I just don't get why it is not important for the father to be a part of their lives too. I mean we have people bashing single parents if they are a POC, but some fathers can work multiple jobs meaning they are spending many hours outside of the home and that is all ok. So which is it, you need fathers around or you don't? Or they only need to provide the money?
And what would happen, lurkingaw, if you had a difficult recovery and physically couldn't care for your other children? Would your church provide you months of money so your H could stay home and take care of the kids? What happens when life doesn't go the way you have planned?
I just don't get why it is not important for the father to be a part of their lives too. I mean we have people bashing single parents if they are a POC, but some fathers can work multiple jobs meaning they are spending many hours outside of the home and that is all ok. So which is it, you need fathers around or you don't? Or they only need to provide the money?
And what would happen, lurkingaw , if you had a difficult recovery and physically couldn't care for your other children? Would your church provide you months of money so your H could stay home and take care of the kids? What happens when life doesn't go the way you have planned?