Who's finished? - The Raven King (spoilers)

[snshne322]

I'm sad it's over.  I'm extremely satisfied with it.  And Maggie did me a solid by addressing one of the pieces from book one that I just couldn't let go of on the last page of TRK.

Maggie did a blog post the day before it was released and her wish for readers to just WANT after finishing the series is exactly how I felt when I finished.  I don't know what I want, I just want.

Anyone else finished yet?




So. The last book in the Raven Cycle comes out tomorrow, April 26th.

As a writer, you can’t truly predict how you project will land once it makes its way out in the world, especially when you’re talking about the final book in a 1,800 page series. There are just too many moving parts. Too many readers wanting too many things: it’s impossible for all of the desires to co-exist, especially as the desires often contradict each other. It’s impossible to guess what the over-arching reaction will be.

It’s possible to hope, though.

And I hope that it hurts.

Not the way that the Internet thinks. The Internet widely believes that all authors are fiends who delight in the suffering of readers, but I don’t want readers to be sad. At the end of the Raven Cycle, I want readers … to want.

I don’t want them to be able to say what it is they want, though — I want it to be a bigger thing than words. I hope they get to the end and don’t know what to do for the rest of the day. I hope they feel unsettled and needing of something more. I want messages that say, “Stiefvater, please, I just want … ” and then silence. They don’t know what they want. They just want.

The Raven Cycle has always been a series about what makes a hero and about wanting something more, and while I can’t expect anything and be sure of it, that’s what I hope gets stuck in people’s minds.

This is the last day of the Raven King Countdown, because it’s out on shelves tomorrow. That’s all there is.

maggiestiefvater.com/blog/the-raven-king-or-thats-all-there-is/

[willyh19]

Effing library. I STILL don't have my copy.

[revjen]

I'm just ... meh ... so far. I'm in Chapter 25.

[ufcasey]

May 2, 2016 8:27:04 GMT -5 revjen said:

I'm just ... meh ... so far. I'm in Chapter 25.

I am at the 70% mark (had to pause reading it so I could finish A Tree Grows in Brooklyn before my library checkout expired) and I'm liking it now but I was also meh at the chapter 25 point. It gets better though, or at least for me it did.

[ThirdandLong]

I finished on Friday, and I really liked the ending.
-I was hoping to see Persephone again, so I'm glad we had that tiny bit.
-I was really pleased how Adam seemed to grow into himself, grow so much more self-confident. He handled his eye and hand possession quite well. I don't think I'd handle it as well if my eye started moving oddly on it's own, and I know Book 1 Adam wouldn't have either.
-The Lynch family story line blows my mind, and I really loved the development of every single Lynch, even Niall who is gone but we come to know. The scene with Ronan just sitting behind the wheel of his BMW just waiting for Gansey to tell him where to go, so so heartbreaking but also wonderful.
-Blue's family is so quirky and weird and just lovely. We get to know a little more about her 'cousins' and I loved that. The entire dynamic at Fox Way is complicated and wonderfully written. Blue got her HEA, and she deserved it. I wonder if she'll one day full realize her tree skin heritage. Also, Gwenllian is the best.
-Gansey. Poor Gansey. The Glendower reveal is so.... heartbreaking. His breakdown at the Rest Stop afterward is sad and perfect.
-Noah is freaky at best. His entire story arc in TRK was tear-worthy. I was very confused by his circular chapter. I think I'll read it again after I read a few blogs.

Things I was less happy about
-Blue's dad is a schmuck. Why couldn't he have told anyone literally anything, literally a single second sooner.
-Where did Henry come from? I mean, I understand he was a student at the school. But he was no one for 3 novels. Three novels in which all the other characters are forming tight, brotherhood bonds. Now all of the sudden there's Henry, and while he's a likable character, he and his Robobee seemed too convenient.
-If a person really controlled a demon, it is highly unlikely they'd behave in such a vapid manner as Piper.
-They knew, KNEW what was happening in Cabeswater, but no one thought of Aurora. *disappointed*
-Gansey would command Glendower after all this time, after all this search, and just run off without his friends, his magicians. Dumb.

I have more feelings about the finale, but mostly I'm just sad this story is done.

[ThirdandLong]

Oh, if anyone would like to explain to me how the Camaro wheel/rim became so ancient, that would be great.... I didn't understand that and I still don't.

[snshne322]

May 2, 2016 14:01:51 GMT -5 ThirdandLong said:

I finished on Friday, and I really liked the ending.
-I was hoping to see Persephone again, so I'm glad we had that tiny bit.
-I was really pleased how Adam seemed to grow into himself, grow so much more self-confident. He handled his eye and hand possession quite well. I don't think I'd handle it as well if my eye started moving oddly on it's own, and I know Book 1 Adam wouldn't have either.
-The Lynch family story line blows my mind, and I really loved the development of every single Lynch, even Niall who is gone but we come to know. The scene with Ronan just sitting behind the wheel of his BMW just waiting for Gansey to tell him where to go, so so heartbreaking but also wonderful.
-Blue's family is so quirky and weird and just lovely. We get to know a little more about her 'cousins' and I loved that. The entire dynamic at Fox Way is complicated and wonderfully written. Blue got her HEA, and she deserved it. I wonder if she'll one day full realize her tree skin heritage. Also, Gwenllian is the best.
-Gansey. Poor Gansey. The Glendower reveal is so.... heartbreaking. His breakdown at the Rest Stop afterward is sad and perfect.
-Noah is freaky at best. His entire story arc in TRK was tear-worthy. I was very confused by his circular chapter. I think I'll read it again after I read a few blogs.

Things I was less happy about
-Blue's dad is a schmuck. Why couldn't he have told anyone literally anything, literally a single second sooner.
-Where did Henry come from? I mean, I understand he was a student at the school. But he was no one for 3 novels. Three novels in which all the other characters are forming tight, brotherhood bonds. Now all of the sudden there's Henry, and while he's a likable character, he and his Robobee seemed too convenient.
-If a person really controlled a demon, it is highly unlikely they'd behave in such a vapid manner as Piper.
-They knew, KNEW what was happening in Cabeswater, but no one thought of Aurora. *disappointed*
-Gansey would command Glendower after all this time, after all this search, and just run off without his friends, his magicians. Dumb.

I have more feelings about the finale, but mostly I'm just sad this story is done.

I feel like Maggie wrapped up these characters so flawlessly. 

-I'm not entirely sure that I understand the cyclical time of Noah, but I do feel like he "existed" to save something.  He hung around for nearly 8 years.  I'm not convinced that he didn't already know what that was.
-Ronan is such a powerful character.  It's amazing to see someone whose appearance is so careless and angry, but he has equal measures of loyalty and devotion to his made family.  I agree that him waiting for Gansey was emotionally wrecking. 
- The relationship developing between Adam and Ronan was utter perfection.  It's hard to even describe them as having feelings toward for each other.  It's far more basic than that.  Every time I read a chapter with them it just felt right. Everything about it.
- Gansey had so much to deal with.  And Glendower?  Holy shit my heart broke for him.  All this searching for essentially nothing.  I think it was genius to have Maggie end it that way.  The feeling that the bonds that got him there are far more powerful than a dead King.  He's so much more than Glendower.
- I did have mixed feelings about Henry.  I thought his character added a lot of levity that was needed in this book, but I'm not sure that the story couldn't have been told without him.  I'm not even sure we figured out how he was special.  He had robobee that his mother obtained, he didn't create it.
- That leaves me to my last point that I think we haven't seen the end of The Gray Man, Seondeck and Henry.  The conversation when Piper was going to sell the demon left everything WIDE open and I don't think Maggie leaves those things hanging by accident.  The fact that we will know so little about Henry leaves me wondering as well.

[snshne322]

May 2, 2016 17:30:12 GMT -5 ThirdandLong said:

Oh, if anyone would like to explain to me how the Camaro wheel/rim became so ancient, that would be great.... I didn't understand that and I still don't.

I'm not entirely sure about that, but that's THE one thing that I was hoping Maggie would explain and she waited until the last possible second.  If I had to guess it's back to the cyclical time thing.  We know that they found the wheel in book one and it was unexplainable and it killed me that it was left open.  But I think Ronan finding it in that shape just signaled to Ronan that it happened in the past, but it will also happen in the future.  Cabeswater is gone, but the ley line lives.  The power within it is still as powerful as it was before and that it's not done with them yet.  I'm not sure I really understand more than that, to be honest.  I can't quite wrap my head about the cyclical time thing.  I hope someone has a clearer take than I do!

[ufcasey]

Things I loved:
The progression of Adam and Ronan's relationship
Blue and Gansey becoming more of a couple
The possession Noah and Adam went through - it was all very disturbing but in the best way.
Gansey's willingness to be a sacrifice and Cabeswater's sacrifice in return.

Things I didn't love:
- Why did kissing Blue cause Gansey to die? I didn't understand the whole mirror thing. It was just, weird. Also, her being part tree?
- The premise that the whole time Gansey could have found Glendower with only the help of Blue and that it all really was completely pointless since Glendower was dead. In fact, had Gansey not been searching for Glendower he would have never led Piper to wake up the demon. And had the demon not been awakened, Cabeswater/Ronan/Adam would have been fine, and thus his own death would have not been needed.
- I didn't understand the whole Noah circle of life thing. Did he die again for Gansey?
- Henry and the magical Robo-bee: that was just so out of left field and seemed kind of a contrived addition to the plot honestly.
- The triplet Laumoniers: again, what? What was the point of all the magic item buyers converging in Henrietta? Did they all die when the demon took over Piper? Are they still a threat to the Greyman and Ronan?

Overall, I'm happy with the HEA ending. I'm happy with the relationship aspects of the story. But the rest just kind of left me scratching my head honestly.

[revjen]

I finished this morning. I liked it but I never got past more than a general like of this entire series. I never fell in love with it and I really wanted to.

The ancient Camaro rim stems from Gansey and the ley line putting him back together in such a way that he is in all places in time at once. The Camaro was part of his identity, imo. An extension of who he was so it exists in all places at once too.

I get how she used the ley line and circular time but I'm not sure I can explain it how it's laid out in my head. I'll try so here goes. If I confuse anyone, I'm sorry.

There's a theory which I've heard occasionally which states that time doesn't flow linearly. It circles back in on itself, which is why history seems to repeat itself over and over. Diana Gabaldon uses the same theory to explain how Claire travels back in time. The standing stones demarcate where timelines meet and it's easier for some to slip back and forth.

Use that same logic here. Think of ley lines as time and magic. Where they intersect lie great power. Henrietta is on one such intersection which is why they were able to utilize it as they did. Instead of being used by it like Claire was, Maggie's crew was able to use the force created even if they didn't know what they were doing.

[snshne322]

May 5, 2016 8:39:00 GMT -5 revjen said:

I finished this morning. I liked it but I never got past more than a general like of this entire series. I never fell in love with it and I really wanted to.

The ancient Camaro rim stems from Gansey and the ley line putting him back together in such a way that he is in all places in time at once. The Camaro was part of his identity, imo. An extension of who he was so it exists in all places at once too.

I get how she used the ley line and circular time but I'm not sure I can explain it how it's laid out in my head. I'll try so here goes. If I confuse anyone, I'm sorry.

There's a theory which I've heard occasionally which states that time doesn't flow linearly. It circles back in on itself, which is why history seems to repeat itself over and over. Diana Gabaldon uses the same theory to explain how Claire travels back in time. The standing stones demarcate where timelines meet and it's easier for some to slip back and forth.

Use that same logic here. Think of ley lines as time and magic. Where they intersect lie great power. Henrietta is on one such intersection which is why they were able to utilize it as they did. Instead of being used by it like Claire was, Maggie's crew was able to use the force created even if they didn't know what they were doing.

So does this also explain why Noah saved him after he was already dead as well as when he died for the first time? Time folds over itself?

[ThirdandLong]

May 5, 2016 10:34:09 GMT -5 snshne322 said:

May 5, 2016 8:39:00 GMT -5 revjen said:

snip

So does this also explain why Noah saved him after he was already dead as well as when he died for the first time? Time folds over itself?

I think this is part of why it's so confusing. Cabeswater definitely saved Gansey the second time. TRK discusses how Cabeswater thinks humans are tricky and complicated, so to give him back his life, it took Ronan's wonder, Blue's sadness, etc.

I think the circularness happens because all at the same time Noah can see Gansey die the first time and the second time. And he can 'go back' to the first time and say that for Glendower Gansey will live when he should not because elsewhere someone is dying who should not. Then he immediately passes on. (If he had passed on 7 yrs ago when he gave Gansey his life back, he couldn't have passed on in his circular chapter. He has to stay in Henrietta as a ghost until the second death.)  IMO...confusing.

[revjen]

May 5, 2016 11:33:31 GMT -5 ThirdandLong said:

May 5, 2016 10:34:09 GMT -5 snshne322 said:

So does this also explain why Noah saved him after he was already dead as well as when he died for the first time? Time folds over itself?

I think this is part of why it's so confusing. Cabeswater definitely saved Gansey the second time. TRK discusses how Cabeswater thinks humans are tricky and complicated, so to give him back his life, it took Ronan's wonder, Blue's sadness, etc.

I think the circularness happens because all at the same time Noah can see Gansey die the first time and the second time. And he can 'go back' to the first time and say that for Glendower Gansey will live when he should not because elsewhere someone is dying who should not. Then he immediately passes on. (If he had passed on 7 yrs ago when he gave Gansey his life back, he couldn't have passed on in his circular chapter. He has to stay in Henrietta as a ghost until the second death.)  IMO...confusing.

I guess I have an easier time with it because of the ghost hunting.  The first passing is the physical body.  But not every consciousness leaves or moves onto the next plane of existence.  Noah's "second passing" was the relinquishment of the task that he set out to do.  It was either Cabeswater or the ley line that held Noah in place because it touches all parts of time.  It/They knew that Noah would be needed again to bring Gansey back later in the timeline.  So it/they held Noah here until he needed to make another sacrifice.  The only way possible to do that was to hold Noah in stasis as an entity.  When it was time to bring Gansey back for the second time, time folded over itself to replicate what happened the first time.

[snshne322]

May 5, 2016 13:13:56 GMT -5 revjen said:

May 5, 2016 11:33:31 GMT -5 ThirdandLong said:

I think this is part of why it's so confusing. Cabeswater definitely saved Gansey the second time. TRK discusses how Cabeswater thinks humans are tricky and complicated, so to give him back his life, it took Ronan's wonder, Blue's sadness, etc.

I think the circularness happens because all at the same time Noah can see Gansey die the first time and the second time. And he can 'go back' to the first time and say that for Glendower Gansey will live when he should not because elsewhere someone is dying who should not. Then he immediately passes on. (If he had passed on 7 yrs ago when he gave Gansey his life back, he couldn't have passed on in his circular chapter. He has to stay in Henrietta as a ghost until the second death.)  IMO...confusing.

I guess I have an easier time with it because of the ghost hunting.  The first passing is the physical body.  But not every consciousness leaves or moves onto the next plane of existence.  Noah's "second passing" was the relinquishment of the task that he set out to do.  It was either Cabeswater or the ley line that held Noah in place because it touches all parts of time.  It/They knew that Noah would be needed again to bring Gansey back later in the timeline.  So it/they held Noah here until he needed to make another sacrifice.  The only way possible to do that was to hold Noah in stasis as an entity.  When it was time to bring Gansey back for the second time, time folded over itself to replicate what happened the first time.

Thank you both! That makes a lot more sense now.

[ufcasey]

Nope. Still don't get it even after reading these explanations. Lol

[revjen]

Think of it like this: Imagine a length of ribbon in your mind. Make a circle once and put a pin over the points where the ends cross. Then make another circle with the same ribbon, tuck it under the original circle and put a pin in the exact same spot. The first circle is where Noah was originally murdered. The second circle is Noah's existence post murder. The pin is Gansey's death.

[ufcasey]

May 6, 2016 10:06:11 GMT -5 revjen said:

Think of it like this: Imagine a length of ribbon in your mind. Make a circle once and put a pin over the points where the ends cross. Then make another circle with the same ribbon, tuck it under the original circle and put a pin in the exact same spot. The first circle is where Noah was originally murdered. The second circle is Noah's existence post murder. The pin is Gansey's death.

Ok, THAT makes sense in my head now but it doesn't explain why Noah had to die twice but he really only saved Gansey once (because Cabeswater saved him the second time, right? not Noah?).

[revjen]

It's not really dying. As a spirit/ghost/entity, you can't technically die again. When we investigate, we encourage trapped entities to move on to their next plane of existence if they choose. That's what Noah sacrificed; his hold on this world. But ... and it's a big one ... but he CHOSE to go on the second time. He could have chosen to stay and not allowed Cabeswater/the ley line to use his energy for Gansey. Instead, he chose to move on to the next life.

[sassypants]

My brain is too tired for the philosophical side of this conversation, but I agree with the Henry/Seondeok/Gray Man/Laumonier part 100%. Very randomly inserted storylines. As a PP said, perhaps there's some openendedness to this because MS has plans for a spinoff series or something.