Can someone explain why they think she can't sale outside of Arizona? When I read the AZ Health Dept. FAQ about selling outside the state the answer seems to be you can do this but are then subject to FDA jurisdiction. When I look at the FDA website it appears they have regs for home based businesses. This to me reads like her business may not be operating illegally simply by shipping outside AZ? I'm stuck a little on this piece.
After reading everything, it seems ridiculous to argue that going after her business is wrong because it's her livelihood and she needs it to support her child. That's like saying, well, this armed robber is using the money to feed his kid, so we should just let him KOKO. Technically not exactly the same, but close enough.
possibly dumb question about the kitchen thing. Is it allowed if you have one kitchen for personal use, and another just for your business? I don't remember her every saying she had 2 kitchens but I wondered if that's a way some people get around it.
Yes, for cottage kitchen you can use your own kitchen/do not need a second kitchen. You can cross appliances, etc. She does not have two kitchens- she continually touted that as part of her schtick- that she is a single mom, with a single oven, right out of her home, etc.
However, there are direct laws relating to that you cannot use the kitchen for personal food (not even prep, like getting the crockpot going in the morning for dinner that night) while doing business production. You cannot store business ingredients on the same shelves as your personal food. You have to label your product with a very strict "made in a home kitchen" disclaimer, in a font no smaller than 11 pt (I believe). There should have several gates set up to not allow her son (or dogs) into any portion of the business area. Etc etc. She is absolutely in several violations and not operating legally.
possibly dumb question about the kitchen thing. Is it allowed if you have one kitchen for personal use, and another just for your business? I don't remember her every saying she had 2 kitchens but I wondered if that's a way some people get around it.
She only has one kitchen and she pays someone daily to come in and do all the dishes after baking for Moo N Cookies. IIRC she's said they eat out a lot since she's in the kitchen so often with business stuff. I have the memory of a gnat so I have no clue why I seem to remember things about a random poster like this.
After reading everything, it seems ridiculous to argue that going after her business is wrong because it's her livelihood and she needs it to support her child. That's like saying, well, this armed robber is using the money to feed his kid, so we should just let him KOKO. Technically not exactly the same, but close enough.
Did you see the pizza tip theif thread on ML?
Yes, I remember it! I felt conflicted on that one lol.
Can someone explain why they think she can't sale outside of Arizona? When I read the AZ Health Dept. FAQ about selling outside the state the answer seems to be you can do this but are then subject to FDA jurisdiction. When I look at the FDA website it appears they have regs for home based businesses. This to me reads like her business may not be operating illegally simply by shipping outside AZ? I'm stuck a little on this piece.
Can someone explain why they think she can't sale outside of Arizona? When I read the AZ Health Dept. FAQ about selling outside the state the answer seems to be you can do this but are then subject to FDA jurisdiction. When I look at the FDA website it appears they have regs for home based businesses. This to me reads like her business may not be operating illegally simply by shipping outside AZ? I'm stuck a little on this piece.
Post by EllieArroway on Aug 15, 2016 21:12:22 GMT -5
13-1507. Burglary in the second degree; classification A. A person commits burglary in the second degree by entering or remaining unlawfully in or on a residential structure with the intent to commit any theft or any felony therein. B. Burglary in the second degree is a class 3 felony.
Disclaimer: I know nothing about her charges and I found this on some random website.
possibly dumb question about the kitchen thing. Is it allowed if you have one kitchen for personal use, and another just for your business? I don't remember her every saying she had 2 kitchens but I wondered if that's a way some people get around it.
Yes, for cottage kitchen you can use your own kitchen/do not need a second kitchen. You can cross appliances, etc. She does not have two kitchens- she continually touted that as part of her schtick- that she is a single mom, with a single oven, right out of her home, etc.
However, there are direct laws relating to that you cannot use the kitchen for personal food (not even prep, like getting the crockpot going in the morning for dinner that night) while doing business production. You cannot store business ingredients on the same shelves as your personal food. You have to label your product with a very strict "made in a home kitchen" disclaimer, in a font no smaller than 11 pt (I believe). There should have several gates set up to not allow her son (or dogs) into any portion of the business area. Etc etc. She is absolutely in several violations and not operating legally.
Yes, for cottage kitchen you can use your own kitchen/do not need a second kitchen. You can cross appliances, etc. She does not have two kitchens- she continually touted that as part of her schtick- that she is a single mom, with a single oven, right out of her home, etc.
However, there are direct laws relating to that you cannot use the kitchen for personal food (not even prep, like getting the crockpot going in the morning for dinner that night) while doing business production. You cannot store business ingredients on the same shelves as your personal food. You have to label your product with a very strict "made in a home kitchen" disclaimer, in a font no smaller than 11 pt (I believe). There should have several gates set up to not allow her son (or dogs) into any portion of the business area. Etc etc. She is absolutely in several violations and not operating legally.
Correct, I agree. I didn't even venture into FDA requirements, as I feel pretty confident that if she isn't following the basic, and clear, cottage kitchen laws, she wasn't properly maintaining anything more strict, either.
I don't get the continued assertions that she is mentally ill. There was always a bottom line for her actions, it seems. One can do horrible things and not be crazy.
Thank you for posting this. I've been getting very frustrated reading comments like "she has to be mentally ill", "only a mentally ill person would do this", etc. I understand that these comments are likely made out of ignorance and not malice, but they are still quite hurtful to people living with mental illness and further contribute to stigma. Mental illness is not a moral failing that causes someone to scam people on message boards, it is an umbrella of actual medical illnesses which affect nearly 1 in 5 Americans. Her pattern is not consistent with mental illness and is highly consistent with a con-artist.
13-1507. Burglary in the second degree; classification A. A person commits burglary in the second degree by entering or remaining unlawfully in or on a residential structure with the intent to commit any theft or any felony therein. B. Burglary in the second degree is a class 3 felony.
Disclaimer: I know nothing about her charges and I found this on some random website.
It was a commercial structure, not residential. That's the only other detail I know.
13-1507. Burglary in the second degree; classification A. A person commits burglary in the second degree by entering or remaining unlawfully in or on a residential structure with the intent to commit any theft or any felony therein. B. Burglary in the second degree is a class 3 felony.
Disclaimer: I know nothing about her charges and I found this on some random website.
It was a commercial structure, not residential. That's the only other detail I know.
What state was she convicted in? Ellie's C&P is from the AZ state page.
13-1507. Burglary in the second degree; classification A. A person commits burglary in the second degree by entering or remaining unlawfully in or on a residential structure with the intent to commit any theft or any felony therein. B. Burglary in the second degree is a class 3 felony.
Disclaimer: I know nothing about her charges and I found this on some random website.
It was a commercial structure, not residential. That's the only other detail I know.
Laws will vary between states but in general:
First degree burglary = residence
Second degree burglary = commercial structure
ETA: In CA, 2nd degree burglary is certainly a commercial structure.
Ahh yeah I googled Arizona. Here's a section from CA:
459.5. (a) Notwithstanding Section 459, shoplifting is defined as entering a commercial establishment with intent to commit larceny while that establishment is open during regular business hours, where the value of the property that is taken or intended to be taken does not exceed nine hundred fifty dollars ($950). Any other entry into a commercial establishment with intent to commit larceny is burglary. Shoplifting shall be punished as a misdemeanor, except that a person with one or more prior convictions for an offense specified in clause (iv) of subparagraph (C) of paragraph (2) of subdivision (e) of Section 667 or for an offense requiring registration pursuant to subdivision (c) of Section 290 may be punished pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170. (b) Any act of shoplifting as defined in subdivision (a) shall be charged as shoplifting. No person who is charged with shoplifting may also be charged with burglary or theft of the same property.
460. (a) Every burglary of an inhabited dwelling house, vessel, as defined in the Harbors and Navigation Code, which is inhabited and designed for habitation, floating home, as defined in subdivision (d) of Section 18075.55 of the Health and Safety Code, or trailer coach, as defined by the Vehicle Code, or the inhabited portion of any other building, is burglary of the first degree. (b) All other kinds of burglary are of the second degree.
Ahh yeah I googled Arizona. Here's a section from CA:
459.5. (a) Notwithstanding Section 459, shoplifting is defined as entering a commercial establishment with intent to commit larceny while that establishment is open during regular business hours, where the value of the property that is taken or intended to be taken does not exceed nine hundred fifty dollars ($950). Any other entry into a commercial establishment with intent to commit larceny is burglary. Shoplifting shall be punished as a misdemeanor, except that a person with one or more prior convictions for an offense specified in clause (iv) of subparagraph (C) of paragraph (2) of subdivision (e) of Section 667 or for an offense requiring registration pursuant to subdivision (c) of Section 290 may be punished pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170. (b) Any act of shoplifting as defined in subdivision (a) shall be charged as shoplifting. No person who is charged with shoplifting may also be charged with burglary or theft of the same property.
460. (a) Every burglary of an inhabited dwelling house, vessel, as defined in the Harbors and Navigation Code, which is inhabited and designed for habitation, floating home, as defined in subdivision (d) of Section 18075.55 of the Health and Safety Code, or trailer coach, as defined by the Vehicle Code, or the inhabited portion of any other building, is burglary of the first degree. (b) All other kinds of burglary are of the second degree.
Guys, I am leaving for Australia in 20 some hours and instead of booking hotels that I have yet to do or packing, this is how I spent my day. I told my husband the whole thing and for once he didn't seem annoyed by my internet habits.
To make it easy to find/read here's what a poster on TN said about her in March 2009,
"Yes I met Lindsay and her MOH at the gtg in Irvine a few years ago. I actually sat next to her MOH, who went by the sn "queenbee". I was also friendly with one of her "friends" that got caught up in the teachkinder drama, as so many did.
Teachkinder (Lindsay) was on the LA and OC nest when I was planning my wedding. Her Mom was said to be dying. She hired the best of the best vendors...I'm talking the top pick photogs, dj's, and videographers. Because of her dying Mother, she moved up her wedding date. All of these poor vendors obliged her requests, I mean, her Mom was dying. She also had her wedding on the beach at very upscale location. Again, another favor! Days before her wedding, she claimed her Mom couldn't be at the wedding because she was dying in a hospital. She also told many of us that they were setting up a camera so that her Mom could watch the live feed from her wedding. It was all over the top but at the time, no one thought she was capable of such lies.
On the day of the wedding, Lindsay told her vendors that because of the situation with her Mother she didn't have the checks to pay them. It just so happens that my florist from my wedding was also her florist. On the day of the wedding she handed him a check and he felt funny about it. When he went to cash the check he was told that the account didn't exisit. So, the next day he called her and she claimed she wasn't paying because she hated her flowers. He knew better because she claimed the day of her wedidng that she loved her flowers, so he took the cops to her hotel room to collect payment the day after the wedding. Thankfully, she received money at her wedding so she was able to pay him. I believe he was the ONLY vendor that was ever paid.
Years after all this went down, Lindsay's MOH came on the nest and shared alot of the backstory. It was said that Lindsay stole $$$ from her H, his family and countless others. They are no longer together and I guess their marriage was over in months.
As far as I know, she has NO children.
And like MDR stated, she created drama everywhere she went. Funny, she also created a scene when she was leaving the OC gtg. She was the one who collected the funds from all the ladies, and then decided that she didn't like the service we received so she didn't pay the tip.
bronxgirl thank you for your post. I apologize for saying it must be mental illness. Like pugz, I tend to think the best of people for too long and cannot fathom how someone could perpetuate this disgusting fraud knowingly and intentionally. But I am too naive. There are plenty of con artists and she is obviously one of them.
Post by longtimenopost on Aug 15, 2016 22:30:24 GMT -5
Re: mental illness vs. criminal, they're not mutually exclusive. She is clearly a con artist but also displays many characteristics of both narcissistic and antisocial personality disorders. I agree "mental illness" is a vague catch all term that can cause stigmatization, but I'm not sure it's completely inappropriate in this case.
Re: mental illness vs. criminal, they're not mutually exclusive. She is clearly a con artist but also displays many characteristics of both narcissistic and antisocial personality disorders. I agree "mental illness" is a vague catch all term that can cause stigmatization, but I'm not sure it's completely inappropriate in this case.
Whether it is or isn't in this case, we don't have enough information to know, so let's stop throwing terms around inappropriately.