I'll never understand why Moms are so afraid of formula. If you look at my eff children, what is SO bad about them that makes you never want to feed your child formula? How can you see a society full of babies who have formula and are perfectly healthy, yet still refuse formula?
When pg, between the BFing class I took and the guide from the hospital that pushed rooming in, no pacifier use and no bottles for the first 4 weeks, you are basically taught that even giving one bottle will ruin your chances of successfully BFing. The pendulum has swung so far the other way to EBFing. My sister even told me to throw out the formula samples I got in the mail because "studies have shown that having formula samples decreases your chances of successfully BFing". That's what she told me, and she was just trying to help me. I'm so glad I kept the samples, but I felt guilty doing so.
I kept telling myself I wouldn't care if BFing didn't work out, but I almost felt brainwashed by everything I was taught and I really resisted formula. There is a lot of pressure to EBF. H and I were just talking about it and I won't make the same mistake next time.
In addition to this, I think hormones sometimes make it hard to think rationally about it. I didn't have trouble producing milk, but DD had latch issues that resulted in horrible pain and then I got mastitis right away AND had an allergic reaction to the antibiotics they gave me. Cognitively, I knew that I could stop and it would be fine (and my sole breastfeeding goal before she was born was to give it a try; I literally had not given a single thought to making it to 6 months or a year or even 2 days because I didn't read care about it that much)...but I was starting to struggle with PPA, and suddenly nothing logical mattered very much. It was surreal because I'm normally such a research-driven, logical person. I felt like I was having an out-of-body experience or something.
I'll never understand why Moms are so afraid of formula. If you look at my eff children, what is SO bad about them that makes you never want to feed your child formula? How can you see a society full of babies who have formula and are perfectly healthy, yet still refuse formula?
INFERIOR GUT BACTERIA! ASTHMA! EVERY OTHER DISEASE!
My EFF baby is perfect, healthy and happy and sweet as can be.
This. Plus I was told my FF baby was " stinky" because formula is " disgusting" & that I obviously wasn't well bonded to him.
I am still pissed that DS2 was allowed to become jaundiced in the hospital. I had OKed formula. Encouraged it. I wasn't worried that my milk would eventually come in and we could EBF, cause I had done it before. No one told me he was losing that much weight until it was too fucking late. He was 9 lbs 12 oz, so clearly at risk, and in the NICU the first two days for breathing issues, so it's not like I was the one monitoring his hunger cues the whole time.
I am still pissed that DS2 was allowed to become jaundiced in the hospital. I had OKed formula. Encouraged it. I wasn't worried that my milk would eventually come in and we could EBF, cause I had done it before. No one told me he was losing that much weight until it was too fucking late. He was 9 lbs 12 oz, so clearly at risk, and in the NICU the first two days for breathing issues, so it's not like I was the one monitoring his hunger cues the whole time.
This happened to me as well. I told multiple people we were ok with formula and they said everything was fine with me just breastfeeding. I had a meltdown when they were going to release us and he hadn't pooped and was jaundiced. They kept saying it will leave his body through poop and pee but he wasn't doing it, give me some formula! I was sobbing and hadn't slept for 24 hours worrying about this, DH told them to take baby to nursery and give formula to let me sleep for a few hours.
This article is making me livid. Mad about the WHO recommendations that have been blown out of proportion, the pseudoscience that surrounds breast-feeding, and the fact that common sense goes out the window all in the name of this bodily function that we don't even Study properly from a scientific perspective.
The fact that the OBs don't claim breast-feeding and the Pediatricians don't claim it either should be a sign that no one knows what they're talking about!
I hope that more retrospective studies like the ones referenced in this article are done and show that our current EBF recommendations are ridiculous.
I'll never understand why Moms are so afraid of formula. If you look at my eff children, what is SO bad about them that makes you never want to feed your child formula? How can you see a society full of babies who have formula and are perfectly healthy, yet still refuse formula?
I don't think it's about formula being "bad" it's about breast being "best" and what hormonal mother doesn't want the best for their precious new baby?
I read a million books, took a childbirth and bf class etc, and a hospital that would no longer offer pacifiers because breast is best. So like anna7602 I didn't even give j a pacifier until he was 5w old for fear of nipple confusion. I did end up supplementing with formula via syringe and an sns for all 3 kids the first few days (due to jaundice for J and hypoglycemia for the girls due to prematurity) So it's not as though I didn't give formula at all because it was "bad," but I was definitely terrified it would destroy my bf relationship and that it wasn't "best" for my kids.
In reality, that early supplementing the first week or so likely saved our bf relationship.
I'll never understand why Moms are so afraid of formula. If you look at my eff children, what is SO bad about them that makes you never want to feed your child formula? How can you see a society full of babies who have formula and are perfectly healthy, yet still refuse formula?
When pg, between the BFing class I took and the guide from the hospital that pushed rooming in, no pacifier use and no bottles for the first 4 weeks, you are basically taught that even giving one bottle will ruin your chances of successfully BFing. The pendulum has swung so far the other way to EBFing. My sister even told me to throw out the formula samples I got in the mail because "studies have shown that having formula samples decreases your chances of successfully BFing". That's what she told me, and she was just trying to help me. I'm so glad I kept the samples, but I felt guilty doing so.Â
I kept telling myself I wouldn't care if BFing didn't work out, but I almost felt brainwashed by everything I was taught and I really resisted formula. There is a lot of pressure to EBF. H and I were just talking about it and I won't make the same mistake next time.Â
I took the same class, and it seared into my brain NO BOTTLES. DD was starving and losing a lot of weight and the pedi gave us formula at her first post hospital visit and was like, use this. I cried I didn't want to. We used a syringe to give it to her cause I thought the bottle would RUIN everything. My sister is a CLC and was like, you don't need to supplement. In the end I stopping EBF at 7 weeks for other reasons but I am EFF from the start next time. I feel like it will be less stressful for me. I think so much of the information given now is like BREAST ONLY ANYTHING ELSE IS BAD is so redic and freaks out new moms. My EFF kid is fucking perfect. Fed is best.
Post by sillygoosegirl on Aug 28, 2016 10:05:17 GMT -5
I've never seen a reputable breastfeeding source claim that it's okay NOT to supplement at 15% weight loss, although people on message boards like to say it.
Post by HoneySpider on Aug 28, 2016 10:11:45 GMT -5
My plan was to EBF and we tried right away in the hospital, but between his trouble latching and my pain/sheer exhaustion it was such a frustrating experience. We ended up giving him formula in the hospital because I didn't want him to be hungry (which of course got the side eye from some people but luckily our day nurse was awesome about it, even sent us home with a bunch of formula bottles). When we went home we gave him formula for another day or 2 until my milk came in and I started pumping, I didn't even want to try BF him. We saw the LC earlier this week and he did better but was still having some trouble latching. Once back home and doing it on our own again, it was frustrating and upsetting for him and for me. I've decided it's not worth it to force him into it especially if it's making both of us unhappy.
My plan is to keep pumping and supplement with a formula bottle here and there but I'm having some guilt over giving up on BF so easily - it's not my nature to give up so quickly. I'm not even entirely sure how long I'll keep pumping. But at the end of the day, I just want my kid to be fed and I honestly don't care how that happens. My mom has been reminding me that I was EFF and seem to have turned out ok
Post by karinothing on Aug 28, 2016 10:42:23 GMT -5
HoneySpider, Do not feel one ounce of guilt. You are doing what works for you. You all know i am a BFing advocate, but none of it matters really. Your baby is loved, fed, and will be so bonded to you. I promise.
Plus, if you ever wanted to you could always try again later on down the road.I have two friends that weren't able to nurse until 3 months when baby got bigger. (I hope this doesn't come off as saying you should try it, just meant that if you ever wanted to try again later down the road, it may be possible).
Post by Queen Mamadala on Aug 28, 2016 10:49:24 GMT -5
I read this a few days ago. I like that it addresses the challenges and risks of EBF insufficient milk transfer or production during the early days before lactogenesis II occurs. With ds2 it was delayed due to class 2 and 4 tongue tie issues. He lost over a pound in five days, and was jaundice. The first ped didn't think he had tongue tie, and the second only diagnosed the class 2. My LC and an ENT diagnosed the class 4 and his labial lip tie.
I did start pumping and supplementing on day five, and pumped part/full time for 5.5 months before switching to combo feeding with formula. (He only nursed from my left, so I didn't make a full supply when nursing)
And with dd3, I had anemia induced low supply. No latch issues. She also lost a pound within five days. I started using donor milk and supplemented by the time she was four weeks. I pumped here and there during the first few weeks, but I hated it and switched to combo feeding like with ds2.
One LC had a pretty shitty attitude about using formula and said it was a last resort, but needed in this situation. Uh, yeah, I determined that before we had this meeting. I was perfectly fine with supplementing. I definitely wanted to succeed with breastfeeding, as I did with my others, but was just fine supplementing because it was necessary at first and was the right choice for us.
This article is making me livid. Mad about the WHO recommendations that have been blown out of proportion, the pseudoscience that surrounds breast-feeding, and the fact that common sense goes out the window all in the name of this bodily function that we don't even Study properly from a scientific perspective.
The fact that the OBs don't claim breast-feeding and the Pediatricians don't claim it either should be a sign that no one knows what they're talking about!
I hope that more retrospective studies like the ones referenced in this article are done and show that our current EBF recommendations are ridiculous.
I 100% agree with this too! I struggled with chronic plugged ducts for the first 6 months. Like chronic meaning I had 1-2 almost every day. The amount of pain I was in was insane. I asked the OB for help and she had literally no advice. I asked the pedi and they didn't have any help either. I saw many LCs and several breastfeeding groups and no one could give me any advice. They had no idea why it was happening to me or what I could do about other than "keep breastfeeding". Looking back, I'm shocked I kept BFing. Yet even then, I was scared to use formula (also partly because I was scared weaning would be even worse). I felt like a failure and couldn't figure out why there was no place to go for actual help.
preppy, the LCs at our hospital were the actual worst. God I hated them so much. They had no sympathy or support or even useful advice for me other than keep going. I had horrible latch pain for several weeks and they kept saying the latch looked fine, just keep going! I went to another hospital and they actually taught me how to get her to latch properly like 2 weeks later.
I almost didn't read this article because thinking back to the first week of DDs life and trying to breastfeed is too triggering, but I'm glad I did. My milk didn't come in until day 5, and at the first pedi appointment on day 3, she had already lost 15% of her birth weight and I was making nothing. I had no idea this was common. We ended up supplementing then I pumped when my milk came in. Finally got her latched with the nipple shield. Was able to wean her off the sheild around 10 weeks and she's now 7 months and we're still going strong.
Really glad I read this. I feel like I can move on from such a traumatizing experience and know I did the right thing.
I feel so SO fortunate that as a first time mom I had this board with moms with diverse experiences and an understanding of how to truly be supportive and how not to be an asshole, lol. Many first time moms do not have that, most probably don't even. All they have are the grandmas (often with outdated advice) and maybe some friends who may or may not know how to be supportive. I encountered some real asshole moms in the breastfeeding support group I attended that first month too and the LCs were just so-so. But I had this board to come back to and get support and help sorting out all the conflicting advice (and assvice) I was receiving.
I definitely experienced what someone above referred to as "brainwashing" as I prepped to have my first child. I read the books, took the classes, bought into the experts saying to toss out formula samples, refuse bottles and pacifiers (nipple confusion!!!1111), and of course the message drilled in for those first few days: babies have tiny tummies, all they need is the colostrum. We were trying to fucking supplement via cup feeding that first week. I wish I had video of it to show you how completely ridiculous it was. My baby was asleep 99% of her first month since she was born at 36 weeks. All that formula was just dribbling right out of her mouth. She was sleeping on my boob but because she was latched and the LC said it "looked good" surely she was getting something, right? I am so grateful we paid for an LC visit at 5 days out and that she wasn't a kook. She told us to switch to supplementing with bottles, got me a hands free pumping bra, made the connection between my PCOS/fertility issues and my abysmal supply and gave me supplements, and taught us how to do compressions. None of this information was given to us by the hospital LC or the ones in the BF support group. Pediatricians are not trained for this. Hospital nurses only know so much.
We were fortunate to not have tongue/lip ties but we need medical professionals to get with the freaking program on this issue. You have pedis and ENTs saying "no there's no tie" or "revision won't really change anything" and then pediatric dentists that will step in and say "uh yeah, there are severe ties, let me laser this real quick and you can get on with breastfeeding." The mixed/misleading messages on this topic are ridiculous. You should be able to trust that your medical professional knows what they are talking about.
We need more evidence based research and protocols in place. We need to prioritize the moms and their mental health and happiness, we need to quit worshiping breast milk as the be all end all.
I feel so SO fortunate that as a first time mom I had this board with moms with diverse experiences and an understanding of how to truly be supportive and how not to be an asshole, lol. Many first time moms do not have that, most probably don't even. All they have are the grandmas (often with outdated advice) and maybe some friends who may or may not know how to be supportive. I encountered some real asshole moms in the breastfeeding support group I attended that first month too and the LCs were just so-so. But I had this board to come back to and get support and help sorting out all the conflicting advice (and assvice) I was receiving.
I definitely experienced what someone above referred to as "brainwashing" as I prepped to have my first child. I read the books, took the classes, bought into the experts saying to toss out formula samples, refuse bottles and pacifiers (nipple confusion!!!1111), and of course the message drilled in for those first few days: babies have tiny tummies, all they need is the colostrum. We were trying to fucking supplement via cup feeding that first week. I wish I had video of it to show you how completely ridiculous it was. My baby was asleep 99% of her first month since she was born at 36 weeks. All that formula was just dribbling right out of her mouth. She was sleeping on my boob but because she was latched and the LC said it "looked good" surely she was getting something, right? I am so grateful we paid for an LC visit at 5 days out and that she wasn't a kook. She told us to switch to supplementing with bottles, got me a hands free pumping bra, made the connection between my PCOS/fertility issues and my abysmal supply and gave me supplements, and taught us how to do compressions. None of this information was given to us by the hospital LC or the ones in the BF support group. Pediatricians are not trained for this. Hospital nurses only know so much.
We were fortunate to not have tongue/lip ties but we need medical professionals to get with the freaking program on this issue. You have pedis and ENTs saying "no there's no tie" or "revision won't really change anything" and then pediatric dentists that will step in and say "uh yeah, there are severe ties, let me laser this real quick and you can get on with breastfeeding." The mixed/misleading messages on this topic are ridiculous. You should be able to trust that your medical professional knows what they are talking about.
We need more evidence based research and protocols in place. We need to prioritize the moms and their mental health and happiness, we need to quit worshiping breast milk as the be all end all.
DD had a pretty severe (stage 4) lip tie, and a tongue tie. I got it corrected at 4 months, but struggled with nursing before that and started using a nipple shield at about 2 weeks old at the suggestion of my husband who Googled for ideas.
I had trouble with her latch in the hospital but because she was born on a Saturday, we didn't see an LC until Monday, the day of our discharge. She had been fine but her bilirubin levels were borderline and I went back to the Pedi the first 3 days after we were home, trying to get her to eat. I was also scared of formula, but at the same time my milk had come in and she wasn't latching. I had to pump, feed her by spoon or syringe, finally we did a bottle because we realized how ridiculous we were being feeding her like that. After we on our own figured out the nipple shield and it worked, I went back to nursing. But seriously, no thanks to anyone in the hospital, my Pedi's, or the LC. I saw another LC at the same hospital during the third week to make sure DD was getting enough because I read that the nipple shield may mean lower supply. She was fine. I did ask the LC about ties, and she wasn't able to give me a real answer or diagnosis because she "wasn't a doctor". Um thanks? Asked the Pedi, she said it was "slight" and as long as DD was thriving and gaining weight, no need to do anything. Obviously our ease of nursing and my comfort were not important. She also had reflux and lots of gas, which I believe was at least in part because of the ties. I went to a couple pediatric dentists, the first acknowledged the ties but again said that he didn't think they needed to be corrected, same reason Pedi gave. I pursued another opinion and finally got the laser revision. There was an immediate difference. We're still nursing at 13 months.
I wish that the support in the beginning had been better though, both from a BFing/formula standpoint, which would have helped a lot in those first 2 weeks. I wish going to the LC had been easier, and that behind the LC, that either the midwife/OB or Pedi would accept responsibility for questions and assistance for mothers who need it. I felt like I couldn't get help from the Pedi because it was "me" and not DD. But it goes hand in hand.
This is absolutely terrifying. We started supplementing in the hospital and still are giving 1-2 oz of formula a day, just because DDs latch is still pretty painful and it gives me a little break. I didn't feel a super strong pull toward BF vs FF from anyone in the hospital or even our pedi or LC. All seemed supportive either way, although I do feel a strange hormonal and emotional pull toward BF even though I originally didn't think it was that important to me. I can't imagine how much worse off I would be mentally if I had gotten more pressure or judgment early on.
Post by ratherbepaddling on Aug 28, 2016 13:55:52 GMT -5
Hi ladies. I don't normally post here (although I would like to join in more!) this article gave me mixed emotions. I'm a FTM and felt like I didn't have enough support in the hospital. DD was born at 37.5 weeks and I pushed for a while so she had a cone head. One lactation nurse told me that's why she was having trouble latching. I saw 4 lactation nurses in the hospital, they eventually gave me a pump so I could spoon feed. She was very sleepy and had a bilirubin level of 10 before we were discharged. When the hospital pedi came in to examine her, DD was screaming and I said I think she's hungry. The Pedi scoffed at me and said yeah she's starving and left bc she was too hysterical to examine. No mention of formula. I thought I was doing everything normal (I was exhausted of course and not thinking straight). We saw our pedi the next day and bilirubin went up to 16. We didn't do the biliblanket bc she said she was borderline and we would monitor it. I sort of regret not admitting to the hospital, but it stayed at 16 the next day and pedi said she thought it had peaked. DD lost 13% of her birth weight before starting to gain. We started supplementing with formula on day 4, but I was hesitant because I didn't want to ruin our chances of breast feeding. Looking back, I think I should have supplemented more (maybe I was stingy with it?) and I'm terrified I did damage to her. I've since switched to giving formula with pumped breast milk, but I'm only pumping 4 times a day because my sanity can't handle anymore. She gets 8 ounces a day of breast milk and now I'm wondering if it's even worth it.
This happened to us as well. A was hungry and jaundiced, and my milk didn't come in until day 4. H and I thought we had a fussy baby, but she was just hungry. Luckily one nurse did eventually suggest supplementing, but even then she cup fed A and didn't show me how to use formula or anything. My nipples were ragged from my baby's bad latch and I developed so much anxiety around feeding her that we never got back to BFing.
Post by katrinabennett on Aug 29, 2016 4:56:15 GMT -5
I always wondered why they fed my new born baby out of a small cup. They didn't bring her a bottle. The nurse was so confused when I said formula. I told them to feed her when she was just born and she came with a small cup. Once we got back to the room, I told them bottles were fine and likely easier for the baby. I guess it was to avoid the potential for nipple confusion. And despite me telling her I would only be formula feeding due to my medication, she still did the cup.
Post by imojoebunny on Aug 29, 2016 7:53:09 GMT -5
This is really interesting. DD was born small for gestational age, and IUGR. She had jaundice. We gave her formula from day 1, with the support of the hospital, eventually, like by month 3, she was just on BM, but those first couple of months, she BF, then got a bottle of either formula, or BM depending on what I could pump, after she ate, and then I pumped at every feeding. This would have been impossible, had I not had good maternity leave. I won't lie, I had a people give me flack about it, but at least I knew she was fed, and giving her formula did not prevent me from BF. That was 10 years ago, before the heavy push to not give formula in the hospital. I can't imagine how much worse it would have been, had they not encouraged me to use formula when she needed it. Even with formula, she barely gained the minimum. She lost 6.9% of her body weight by the time we went home at 48 hours, and we went for numerous weight checks those first few months.
The idea that it has to be an all or nothing situation is not realistic or good for some babies and mothers. Also, the idea that you cannot BF, if you give formula is just not true.
Post by biscoffcookies on Aug 29, 2016 8:55:49 GMT -5
This article makes me so angry -- not at the author, who I think is doing a very good thing by bringing this to light, but at those who have created this situation by going so overboard with pro-BF stuff. Not only is it resulting in the whole baby-friendly initiative, which as we've discussed before isn't particularly friendly to sleep deprived moms who need to physically recover from childbirth, and not only does it cause all kinds of mental angst for moms who for whatever reason don't or can't breastfeed, but now it turns out that it very well is putting babies at risk? HULK RAGE.
I breastfed both my kids, and I think breastmilk is great, and I think women should be educated about it and encouraged to do it -- within reason. But we passed "within reason" a looonnngg time ago.
my milk didn't come in until day 5 either. he was super fussy on day 2, so we started supplementing early. I delayed cord clamping, so I knew he was at higher risk for jaundice, too. I combo fed (1-2 formula supplements a day) until he was 3 months old and I went back to work. It turned out that I'm a great responder to the pump, so he was EBF after that. I tell people all the time that formula saved my breastfeeding relationship, rather than hurt it.
most of that in the article? I knew about. it does bother me that 47 is considered the magical number for blood glucose before you have to supplement. depending on the doctor I'm working with, we don't supplement until it's below 40, and 45 is considered our magical number. I just hate that supplementation is so frowned upon, because it would be so much better for them, and for their parents. the head of our neonatology department HATES supplementation, shells, shields, pumps, etc. he says all the time, "babies won't starve themselves, you don't need all that crap, put the bottles away." I hate it.
Hi ladies. I don't normally post here (although I would like to join in more!) this article gave me mixed emotions. I'm a FTM and felt like I didn't have enough support in the hospital. DD was born at 37.5 weeks and I pushed for a while so she had a cone head. One lactation nurse told me that's why she was having trouble latching. I saw 4 lactation nurses in the hospital, they eventually gave me a pump so I could spoon feed. She was very sleepy and had a bilirubin level of 10 before we were discharged. When the hospital pedi came in to examine her, DD was screaming and I said I think she's hungry. The Pedi scoffed at me and said yeah she's starving and left bc she was too hysterical to examine. No mention of formula. I thought I was doing everything normal (I was exhausted of course and not thinking straight). We saw our pedi the next day and bilirubin went up to 16. We didn't do the biliblanket bc she said she was borderline and we would monitor it. I sort of regret not admitting to the hospital, but it stayed at 16 the next day and pedi said she thought it had peaked. DD lost 13% of her birth weight before starting to gain. We started supplementing with formula on day 4, but I was hesitant because I didn't want to ruin our chances of breast feeding. Looking back, I think I should have supplemented more (maybe I was stingy with it?) and I'm terrified I did damage to her. I've since switched to giving formula with pumped breast milk, but I'm only pumping 4 times a day because my sanity can't handle anymore. She gets 8 ounces a day of breast milk and now I'm wondering if it's even worth it.
Hi and welcome. I'm sorry it's been so rough! I wound up EPing (plus formula) for both of my boys. It was tough. You have to decide when is the right time for you to stop. It's rough. Do the best you can.
I will always be grateful for the LC I saw the day we were discharged-being told at what point I should supplement and how much to give (and being given a bunch of sim advance RTF bottles and nipples) really helped decrease my "holy shit you mean I have to take this baby HOME?!" anxiety just a bit. I wish more hospitals were like that.
This is definitely terrifying article and very important for any new mom to read. I had good BF experiences with both kids and felt well supported by my pedi which is why I always recommend them to new moms in our area.
DS was jaundiced and had to be supplemented in the early days. My pedi supported me and worked with me on a plan to help my goal of EBF while making sure that DS was being nourished. They met with us early and often because that first week is so important. I met with a lactation consultant in my pedi's office that sat with me for a good hour, watched me nurse, answered and asked questions, did a weighed feeding. We used a syringe with formula and also nursed him to stimulate my milk coming in. Eventually my milk came in and we switched just to nursing. I wish that every women had access to a supportive educated pediatrician and a LC that knew what she was doing. It could so easily gone badly without their support.
DD was a breeze to nurse and I never really had any issues with her.
I wish that every woman had access to a pedi or a LC that will help support their goals whether it be BF, EFF, or some combo of the two.