meanwhile, i visibly flinched when I read it. really? that's something you're just comfortable reading/hearing right between fall and winter mini Boden lineups? no big deal, right?
how nice for you.
No, it's not . I don't use that word and I have asked people not to use it around me or my kids. I thought I had read in the past that it was worse to dance around it when talking about racism and the terrible things white people have said to black people because it minimizes the horror.
I don't think there's anything I can say at this point to make you, collectively, believe I'm not a hateful, racist person who doesn't care about anything but kids clothes. I would hope the people who have gotten to know me over the years would know that that is not who I am. I am trying to show I care by joining in the conversations, since people have told me it is hurtful to stay silent, but I've done so much more harm now that I wish I hadn't.
Oh dear. Tamb. Dude. I guess my only suggestion for you is that you need to think more highly of POC. It's not that simple, and neither are we. Even if you have very limited contact with black people IRL, you've chatted with many black women here. In fact, I'd wager that you've had the privilege of associating with the top 1% of black women in terms of intelligence, worldliness, etc. So you have no excuse for having such a simplified take on how conversations about race should occur. If the black women on GBCN aren't "worthy" of better discourse from you, then I just can't help you.
Post by gretchenindisguise on Sept 15, 2016 10:45:46 GMT -5
Tamb, we have been around together a long time. I think the previous poster hit the nail on the head, you're not the hateful in your face racist, you're a benevolent racist. Although the posts here have you leaning over on the scale to be honest.
I know you said now you wish you hadn't bothered, but this is how you actually learn and do better. You get called out. You learn. You do better.
And to call myself out, my first inclination was to be easier on you because I know you deal with anxiety and depression, you've used this place as a coping mechanism for a long time and you're newly pregnant. But lots of our WOC have been and/or are those very same things and we as a community haven't been looking out for them at all. You typed out the n word! What kind of impact does that have on those women who are in the same emotional place as you?
Post by katrinabennett on Sept 15, 2016 10:54:06 GMT -5
I deleted my silly question. Not because I didn't want to be flamed just because I thought about it and it was a dumb question. And I didn't want to take away from the thread.
Holy crap, that is just awful. And for it to happen AFTER all the discussion here? I think the idea of a "benevolent racist" is very true and can apply to a lot of people here. Not all racists go to Trump rallies and wave confederate flags. Ugh.
Holy crap, that is just awful. And for it to happen AFTER all the discussion here? I think the idea of a "benevolent racist" is very true and can apply to a lot of people here. Not all racists go to Trump rallies and wave confederate flags. Ugh.
Holy crap, that is just awful. And for it to happen AFTER all the discussion here? I think the idea of a "benevolent racist" is very true and can apply to a lot of people here. Not all racists go to Trump rallies and wave confederate flags. Ugh.
They probably even Make big donations.
And pat each other on the back talking about how enlightened they are
Tamb, we have been around together a long time. I think the previous poster hit the nail on the head, you're not the hateful in your face racist, you're a benevolent racist. Although the posts here have you leaning over on the scale to be honest.
I know you said now you wish you hadn't bothered, but this is how you actually learn and do better. You get called out. You learn. You do better.
And to call myself out, my first inclination was to be easier on you because I know you deal with anxiety and depression, you've used this place as a coping mechanism for a long time and you're newly pregnant. But lots of our WOC have been and/or are those very same things and we as a community haven't been looking out for them at all. You typed out the n word! What kind of impact does that have on those women who are in the same emotional place as you?
Tamb, we have been around together a long time. I think the previous poster hit the nail on the head, you're not the hateful in your face racist, you're a benevolent racist. Although the posts here have you leaning over on the scale to be honest.
I know you said now you wish you hadn't bothered, but this is how you actually learn and do better. You get called out. You learn. You do better.
And to call myself out, my first inclination was to be easier on you because I know you deal with anxiety and depression, you've used this place as a coping mechanism for a long time and you're newly pregnant. But lots of our WOC have been and/or are those very same things and we as a community haven't been looking out for them at all. You typed out the n word! What kind of impact does that have on those women who are in the same emotional place as you?
Quoting because this was perfectly said.
Many of us handle Tamb with kid gloves and that is not fair. It goes right along with what this article is talking about.
This is where I am really guilty and I'm trying to figure out what I can do. I live and work in the far Philly 'burbs. It is so white here and my coworkers are all white or Asian. While I don't plan to pick up and move, I need to find ways to at least help make my occupation and my company more diverse.
We have a token black person in my office. We talk about more diversity whenever a position opens up, but generally all that happens is we hire a white male. (Our office is also predominately female; we usually only have one male at a time.) My boss is Latina, but there are 8 of us and our office make-up is not even representative of our community.
This is shitty. When I was in college, I had a company who wanted to hire me as an intern which would transition to a full time position. Very nice salary. They mentioned how they needed more diversity because they didn't have any woman. I declined. I didn't want to work in a place I was going to be the "token" female. Fuck that. It is so offensive.
Tamb, we have been around together a long time. I think the previous poster hit the nail on the head, you're not the hateful in your face racist, you're a benevolent racist. Although the posts here have you leaning over on the scale to be honest.
I know you said now you wish you hadn't bothered, but this is how you actually learn and do better. You get called out. You learn. You do better.
And to call myself out, my first inclination was to be easier on you because I know you deal with anxiety and depression, you've used this place as a coping mechanism for a long time and you're newly pregnant. But lots of our WOC have been and/or are those very same things and we as a community haven't been looking out for them at all. You typed out the n word! What kind of impact does that have on those women who are in the same emotional place as you?
Yes. This is the core of racist thought. The ability to disconnect the feelings of a POC from your own feelings and your actions. This is no different than sharing the racist meme du jour from FB, with no thought given to how a black person might react to the words or imagery.
So I always wonder, how much are YOU enjoying typing the word, and sharing the meme, and reposting the latest negro snuff film? This shit runs so deep that everyone should really try to think about it for themselves. You might be surprised.
Forget examining smug liberal culture – not using language like that is probably the lowest possible threshold for not harming women on these boards, and it's still happening.
OMFG! I can't with this shit. If we can't even abide by the simplest fucking rule for not being a blatant racist then how can we even begin to tackle all the fly under the radar microagressions that occur on these boards. It is NOT that hard!
Post by lilafowler on Sept 15, 2016 11:39:39 GMT -5
What the absolute fuck. If you can type that word on a message board you must be somewhat comfortable with it in real life, no? Also I am realizing my wife-eyed shock over Tamb's use of the word is one of the things this article is talking about.
Yes. This is the core of racist thought. The ability to disconnect the feelings of a POC from your own feelings and your actions. This is no different than sharing the racist meme du jour from FB, with no thought given to how a black person might react to the words or imagery.
So whenever we post about the racist things our family or friends have said on FB and invite everyone else to be outraged along with us? Ugh. Now that you point it out, it seems really obvious that that's hurtful to see even if it is being condemned. I'm sorry I never saw it that way before.
Serious question. So you honestly thought that all the black folks on this board would see the N-word typed out in full glory and say, "thank goodness SOMEONE finally said it!"? Do you really think that this is a word that should be used more frequently around here? Of course not. I'm just sitting over here straight baffled. It doesn't even take some deep insight into the black experience (which frankly you should have at this point given how long you've been around) to know that this isn't cool. So, again, I'm left wondering just what motivated you to go there.
Everything happening in here IS what racisim looks like in 2016. History books will write about the "benovolant racisim" of the early aughts. We don't wear white hoods. But we throw around the N word ironically or otherwise. We call POC in historically white spaces "token", or we ask POC "how did you get into that school" (happens to my H all the time :/). Etc. Wash. Rinse. Repeat. Otherize. Marginalize. Dehumanize. Like I said before. Maybe we aren't burning crosses litterally but we are figuratively.
And I use the word "we" because as white people I think WE all need to be held accountable for what is done by members of our team. I think it's too easy to say "well I won't use the N word in any context so I'm excused from this discussion. Bye now." I think we all can be better.
So whenever we post about the racist things our family or friends have said on FB and invite everyone else to be outraged along with us? Ugh. Now that you point it out, it seems really obvious that that's hurtful to see even if it is being condemned. I'm sorry I never saw it that way before.
Serious question. So you honestly thought that all the black folks on this board would see the N-word typed out in full glory and say, "thank goodness SOMEONE finally said it!"? Do you really think that this is a word that should be used more frequently around here? Of course not. I'm just sitting over here straight baffled. It doesn't even take some deep insight into the black experience (which frankly you should have at this point given how long you've been around) to know that this isn't cool. So, again, I'm left wondering just what motivated you to go there.
This is what I like to call the " Voldemort Theory of Race Relations"
I swear to god I know some people who are all like "SAYING THE WORD REMOVES IT'S POWER!!" " USING THE WORD TO SHAME THE PERSON WHO SAID IT MALICIOUSLY MAKES SENSE" ( this is what I think @tambcat, was trying to do)
The thing is that it's wrong and doesn't work. It just continues to slap POC in the face. It's not helpful or progressive or important. It just hurts. Like pouring salt in a wound thinking it will disinfect it somehow?? PLUS it's just as easy to use a euphemism when quoting, and still get your point across.
It's just another form of misguided ignorance that continues to abuse POC verbally.
If I am making 0 sense I apologize. I really am not well lately.
I came in here to read the article and join the conversation, but I see we have swiftly moved beyond that initial dialogue and right back into the putrid spiral of overt racism and ignorance perpetuated on the board.
My thought on hateful racial slurs and epithets of any kind is that I, as a white woman, have no authority to "decide" or "interpret" or "any other smug-ish sounding verb" how an affected race/religion/orientation/etc group feels about those words. And therefore, I have no place to use them in ANY context (and further, have a responsibility as a human to speak up when others use those words). Not quoting, not writing, hell I skip words if I'm lip synching to a song in the car.
I'm not sure if I'm expressing myself well, but I couldn't not say anything after seeing that quoted post.
Serious question. So you honestly thought that all the black folks on this board would see the N-word typed out in full glory and say, "thank goodness SOMEONE finally said it!"? Do you really think that this is a word that should be used more frequently around here? Of course not. I'm just sitting over here straight baffled. It doesn't even take some deep insight into the black experience (which frankly you should have at this point given how long you've been around) to know that this isn't cool. So, again, I'm left wondering just what motivated you to go there.
This is what I like to call the " Voldemort Theory of Race Relations"
I swear to god I know some people who are all like "SAYING THE WORD REMOVES IT'S POWER!!" " USING THE WORD TO SHAME THE PERSON WHO SAID IT MALICIOUSLY MAKES SENSE" ( this is what I think @tambcat , was trying to do)
The thing is that it's wrong and doesn't work. It just continues to slap POC in the face. It's not helpful or progressive or important. It just hurts. Like pouring salt in a wound thinking it will disinfect it somehow?? PLUS it's just as easy to use a euphemism when quoting, and still get your point across.
It's just another form of misguided ignorance that continues to abuse POC verbally.
If I am making 0 sense I apologize. I really am not well lately.
No, you're exactly right. That word is the embodiment of power. When black people say it, it's also a demonstration of power, so I never really thought that the whole removing of power theory actually held true for either side.
I would like to know how this would have gone down if someone other than @tambcat typed that word out.
@tambcat , I get that you hate your life and this is the only place you have "friends" but really, what would it take for you to just go away? I know you will need some place to talk about yourself so maybe the other dumb broads who got run off will let you know where they are posting now. I'm sure you can work up to 10k posts quickly again.
I hear you, and hold myself accountable for some of this because I'm all up in here gently educating. Lol. When in the world do I ever do that? I don't do gentle. That's kind of my thing!
Ugh. I'm going to shut up, because I'm giving this foolishness way more positive attention than it deserves.
I hear you, and hold myself accountable for some of this because I'm all up in here gently educating. Lol. When in the world do I ever do that? I don't do gentle. That's kind of my thing!
Ugh. I'm going to shut up, because I'm giving this foolishness way more positive attention than it deserves.
Someone called me harsh this morning IRL, lol. My response to her was "and I like that about myself."
Lol! I blame the delicious lunch I'm eating. Zaxby's, you make me a better woman.
This is what I like to call the " Voldemort Theory of Race Relations"
I swear to god I know some people who are all like "SAYING THE WORD REMOVES IT'S POWER!!" " USING THE WORD TO SHAME THE PERSON WHO SAID IT MALICIOUSLY MAKES SENSE" ( this is what I think @tambcat , was trying to do)
The thing is that it's wrong and doesn't work. It just continues to slap POC in the face. It's not helpful or progressive or important. It just hurts. Like pouring salt in a wound thinking it will disinfect it somehow?? PLUS it's just as easy to use a euphemism when quoting, and still get your point across.
It's just another form of misguided ignorance that continues to abuse POC verbally.
If I am making 0 sense I apologize. I really am not well lately.
No, you're exactly right. That word is the embodiment of power. When black people say it, it's also a demonstration of power, so I never really thought that the whole removing of power theory actually held true for either side.
All of this. Nowhere is it acceptable for us to use those words. All slurs have a deep and painful history of oppression, and they still carry their power. This is Race, Gender and Class 101.
I keep feeling like we need to have a linguistic lesson every few years days here.
I would like to know how this would have gone down if someone other than @tambcat typed that word out.
@tambcat , I get that you hate your life and this is the only place you have "friends" but really, what would it take for you to just go away? I know you will need some place to talk about yourself so maybe the other dumb broads who got run off will let you know where they are posting now. I'm sure you can work up to 10k posts quickly again.
I agree any other poster would have been shamed immediately off this board. I do not understand how she doesn't know this is not ok.
I cannot believe anyone thinking it is OK to use that word. It makes me physically uncomfortable to even THINK about saying it. MIL used a slur the other day and I told her, "It is 2016, you cannot say that! Just like you can't say negro or colored." She supposedly knew those were wrong and backed off.
Those terms are bad enough and the closest awful examples I could think of because there is no way I could use the n word, even in that context.
WTF. Don't get all "I'm trying and it's so hard and I wish I never bothered." No, you are so fucking racist that you can't even stop yourself from crossing the gigantic RED FLASHING SIGNS that everyone else in the world sees outside of card carrying KKK members.
And to the rest of the assholes on that board that said nothing, WTF is wrong with you?
At least we found a worse board than MMM.
On a related note, there was a very interesting article in the NYTimes about colleges hosting freshman orientation sessions about microaggressions and other racist behaviors.
Of course, the first question was about using that word -- at least that 18 year old was unclear about what to do in the spoken speech context, not written.
We should all chip in a few bucks and hire Ms. Marlowe to come and teach us, because we clearly have not figured it out. Despite the mass of threads over the past few weeks fucking explaining it to us in painstaking detail.
I just can't get over that you thought this was ok. Your self absorption here is alarming.
But is it really? Not making any excuses for her, but I can think of quite a few topics off the top of my head for which Tamb has shown alarming self-absorption. Maybe that's why I'm still in a state of pleasant bafflement. Lol. I really thought she was smarter than this, but obviously not.