New here, custody questions

[zzuvet]

Hi all, I don't post much but I need some guidance.

Quick back story:
In September my stbxh left to go to a 12 week training for work in another country. While there he must have been abducted by aliens because after a stupid argument fueled by stress from the separation he decided he was no longer in love with me and wanted a divorce. When he got back to the states we tried 3 counseling sessions where he basically refused to try while simultaneously claiming he is trying.

Stbxh was offered a job in the country he went to training at and has decided to take it and leaves in 6 weeks. We have an almost 4 year old and a 5 year old DD.

What should I consider when thinking about custody? I do not feel comfortable letting them fly alone to visit him and I do not have the vacation time or money to escort them (this will be a 7-8 hour flight). DDs do not speak the language of the country he is moving to and I am concerned about what he will do with them while they are visiting if hes working.

[doriswe]

stephreloaded coparents in two countries...I'm sure she'd have some helpful tips to navigate this.

[glynn]

, Good Luck!

[formerlyak]

A friend of mine coparents in two different states - different, I know, but the arrangement could work. Because friend moved away for work (had no choice - he was military and was transferred), he travels back to where the child lives for his custody time. It works for him because he can stay with family while there, but he goes back and forth every other weekend. The child is older now and sometimes the mom lets her fly to him for longer visits like summer. But usually, he goes to her. Maybe since your stbx is moving to a country that your girls aren't familiar with, you could suggest an arrangement where he flies to them.

[carowen]

zzuvet, I would think about what you feel will be the best arrangement for your children and work towards that. He is choosing to leave the country, correct? I mean, this isn't a situation where if he doesn't move he loses his job. It was an offer, not a demand. There are repercussions to ones choices, and that may mean he loses custody of his children and/or has to sacrifice his time/money to come back to the states to see them.

I would not, in any way, be comfortable letting him take a 4 and 5 yr old to a foreign country. IMO that's too risky. Child abduction is a very real problem and the details here are too weird to risk it.

[carilyn]

I agree with PP that if he's choosing to leave the country, then there will likely be repercussions for him. I live two states away from my ex (the kids and I moved for safety reasons) and flying them back for their supervised visitations is tricky and they're 6 and 9. All domestic airlines have pretty strict rules about what flights they can go on (all have to be direct or nonstop, no changing planes) and from what I've seen, the youngest they can fly unaccompanied is 5. There is only one airline I can find flights to put my kids on unaccompanied for our locations. There is also an extra fee associated. I doubt at your kids' ages, flying unaccompanied is even an option.

I'm not sure if you have a lawyer yet or not, but one in your area would know your state laws and what a typical parenting plan would look like in this situation.

[stephreloaded]

This will be probably really long. As doriswe mentions, I have an international custody situation that has been successful for the almost 8 years you have had them so I have learned a lot. 

You need to find a lawyer that works with this type of cases. I do not think a regular lawyer would be beneficial to your case.

There are a few things that you need to determine. Is the country where he is relocating a member of the Hague convention? If this is the case, whatever ruling any court in the US issues, is applicable in both countries. I live in Colombia and have a Court order in the US. The court in the US has jurisdiction of our CO and whatever is there, is enforceable in both countries. The enforceability (is that a word) of the CO is not as immediate as it would be within the same country but should issues arise, I would be made to stick to it. If the country where he intends to move is not a member of the convention, any ruling you have would be void and there is not much you could do if he decided to keep the children with him except for getting custody in the other country.


Now, for the practical advice. I know it is scary to think that you will be sending your kids to a different country, where they do not speak the language, they are young, etc. You are completely justified on feeling this way. BUT if you start thinking about your children, you will realize the huge beneficial impact it would have on them to live and experience two different countries. To the poster saying that if he moves, HE loses custody and not to let them go, what about the kids? This is not a tit for tat type of thing. Children should come first.


I can honestly say that I am really proud of DD growing up in two different cultures and whenever you talk to her, you can really tell. She fluently speaks two languages and is currently working on a third. The benefits go well beyond languages because she is not only bilingual but bi-cultural. She sees things ways in a different way than most kids and is so used to diversity not because I read it to her from a book but because she actually lives it day to day. She is able to extract things from both cultures that she likes and become part of her personality. 

In my case, I was the one who had to move to a different country but the ex makes significantly more money than I do, travelling costs are split. We both travel to do pick up so that visitation time can start. He comes to Colombia to take DD to the US and I do the same. Since this is more travel and trouble than the usual situation, we try to make things easier for each other during trips. We stay at each other's place for the 1 or 2 nights needed and we pick up and drop off each other at the airport. You can start sending them as unaccompanied minors starting at 5 y/o I think but you are the one who knows your children. DD has some anxiety issues and she hasn't been ready to fly on her own yet but it is now interested so I think we will try either this summer or at the end of the year. 

In terms of visitation duration, we have a schedule that is 9 weeks per year. When DD was little (we started when she was 1.5 y/o) we would do 3 visitations of 3 weeks but as she started school, we changed. We now go by her school calendar and she goes to him 5 weeks during the summer and then 4 weeks during her long Christmas break. We alternate Christmas and her Bday (which is in December). I get the odd years and he gets the even ones. 

He is responsible to arrange child care while they are with him. That is part of being a parent and that is something that he will have to figure out and something that you have to let go. DD used to go to pre-school but now that she is older, she goes to camp in the summer and for her winter break, the ex works from home and takes time off while she is there. She is old enough now to entertain herself while he is working. Actually when you ask her, what was her favourite thing about her visit, she says when her dad had his lunch break and sat down to play Barbies with her. 

I have just written a full novel about this. Truth be told, the ex has an amazing relationship with DD and is always in touch with her. Most often than not, people just think that out of sight, out of mind and don't exercise visitation to avoid the hassle. How involved is he now?

[zzuvet]

Jan 23, 2017 11:35:03 GMT -5 stephreloaded said:

This will be probably really long. As doriswe mentions, I have an international custody situation that has been successful for the almost 8 years you have had them so I have learned a lot. 

You need to find a lawyer that works with this type of cases. I do not think a regular lawyer would be beneficial to your case.

There are a few things that you need to determine. Is the country where he is relocating a member of the Hague convention? If this is the case, whatever ruling any court in the US issues, is applicable in both countries. I live in Colombia and have a Court order in the US. The court in the US has jurisdiction of our CO and whatever is there, is enforceable in both countries. The enforceability (is that a word) of the CO is not as immediate as it would be within the same country but should issues arise, I would be made to stick to it. If the country where he intends to move is not a member of the convention, any ruling you have would be void and there is not much you could do if he decided to keep the children with him except for getting custody in the other country.


Now, for the practical advice. I know it is scary to think that you will be sending your kids to a different country, where they do not speak the language, they are young, etc. You are completely justified on feeling this way. BUT if you start thinking about your children, you will realize the huge beneficial impact it would have on them to live and experience two different countries. To the poster saying that if he moves, HE loses custody and not to let them go, what about the kids? This is not a tit for tat type of thing. Children should come first.


I can honestly say that I am really proud of DD growing up in two different cultures and whenever you talk to her, you can really tell. She fluently speaks two languages and is currently working on a third. The benefits go well beyond languages because she is not only bilingual but bi-cultural. She sees things ways in a different way than most kids and is so used to diversity not because I read it to her from a book but because she actually lives it day to day. She is able to extract things from both cultures that she likes and become part of her personality. 

In my case, I was the one who had to move to a different country but the ex makes significantly more money than I do, travelling costs are split. We both travel to do pick up so that visitation time can start. He comes to Colombia to take DD to the US and I do the same. Since this is more travel and trouble than the usual situation, we try to make things easier for each other during trips. We stay at each other's place for the 1 or 2 nights needed and we pick up and drop off each other at the airport. You can start sending them as unaccompanied minors starting at 5 y/o I think but you are the one who knows your children. DD has some anxiety issues and she hasn't been ready to fly on her own yet but it is now interested so I think we will try either this summer or at the end of the year. 

In terms of visitation duration, we have a schedule that is 9 weeks per year. When DD was little (we started when she was 1.5 y/o) we would do 3 visitations of 3 weeks but as she started school, we changed. We now go by her school calendar and she goes to him 5 weeks during the summer and then 4 weeks during her long Christmas break. We alternate Christmas and her Bday (which is in December). I get the odd years and he gets the even ones. 

He is responsible to arrange child care while they are with him. That is part of being a parent and that is something that he will have to figure out and something that you have to let go. DD used to go to pre-school but now that she is older, she goes to camp in the summer and for her winter break, the ex works from home and takes time off while she is there. She is old enough now to entertain herself while he is working. Actually when you ask her, what was her favourite thing about her visit, she says when her dad had his lunch break and sat down to play Barbies with her. 

I have just written a full novel about this. Truth be told, the ex has an amazing relationship with DD and is always in touch with her. Most often than not, people just think that out of sight, out of mind and don't exercise visitation to avoid the hassle. How involved is he now?

Thank you for your reply. I am glad to see that this can work out well. They will get about 10 weeks total off during the summer, one week at christmas and one week for spring break. My concern is that he isn't thinking about this realistically. I do not make enough money each month to support myself and the kids and although he does make enough now he is taking a huge paycut and will be making less than I am when he takes this job.

We've been separated since November but he had his first solo weekend with them last weekend. He ended up bringing them back early because they were giving him a hard time. They have never been alone with him for longer than a day. I know I am letting my fears cloud my ability to rationalize this. He is absolutely against using any lawyers for the divorce. 

[redshoejune]

No way I would do something this complicated without lawyers. Especially if he doesn't seem to be thinking realistically.

[carilyn]

I would strongly urge you to find a lawyer. At least go talk to a few and see what their thoughts are. Most offer a free consultation. It is expensive, but so worth it. You need to make sure that you don't do anything or allow him to do anything that you'll later regret. Going back to change a parenting plan later is more difficult. There are so many laws and rules about everything, I cannot fathom navigating a complicated situation such as this on my own. Just because you hire an attorney doesn't mean he has to.

[stephreloaded]

Jan 24, 2017 21:57:35 GMT -5 zzuvet said:

Jan 23, 2017 11:35:03 GMT -5 stephreloaded said:

This will be probably really long. As doriswe mentions, I have an international custody situation that has been successful for the almost 8 years you have had them so I have learned a lot. 

You need to find a lawyer that works with this type of cases. I do not think a regular lawyer would be beneficial to your case.

There are a few things that you need to determine. Is the country where he is relocating a member of the Hague convention? If this is the case, whatever ruling any court in the US issues, is applicable in both countries. I live in Colombia and have a Court order in the US. The court in the US has jurisdiction of our CO and whatever is there, is enforceable in both countries. The enforceability (is that a word) of the CO is not as immediate as it would be within the same country but should issues arise, I would be made to stick to it. If the country where he intends to move is not a member of the convention, any ruling you have would be void and there is not much you could do if he decided to keep the children with him except for getting custody in the other country.


Now, for the practical advice. I know it is scary to think that you will be sending your kids to a different country, where they do not speak the language, they are young, etc. You are completely justified on feeling this way. BUT if you start thinking about your children, you will realize the huge beneficial impact it would have on them to live and experience two different countries. To the poster saying that if he moves, HE loses custody and not to let them go, what about the kids? This is not a tit for tat type of thing. Children should come first.


I can honestly say that I am really proud of DD growing up in two different cultures and whenever you talk to her, you can really tell. She fluently speaks two languages and is currently working on a third. The benefits go well beyond languages because she is not only bilingual but bi-cultural. She sees things ways in a different way than most kids and is so used to diversity not because I read it to her from a book but because she actually lives it day to day. She is able to extract things from both cultures that she likes and become part of her personality. 

In my case, I was the one who had to move to a different country but the ex makes significantly more money than I do, travelling costs are split. We both travel to do pick up so that visitation time can start. He comes to Colombia to take DD to the US and I do the same. Since this is more travel and trouble than the usual situation, we try to make things easier for each other during trips. We stay at each other's place for the 1 or 2 nights needed and we pick up and drop off each other at the airport. You can start sending them as unaccompanied minors starting at 5 y/o I think but you are the one who knows your children. DD has some anxiety issues and she hasn't been ready to fly on her own yet but it is now interested so I think we will try either this summer or at the end of the year. 

In terms of visitation duration, we have a schedule that is 9 weeks per year. When DD was little (we started when she was 1.5 y/o) we would do 3 visitations of 3 weeks but as she started school, we changed. We now go by her school calendar and she goes to him 5 weeks during the summer and then 4 weeks during her long Christmas break. We alternate Christmas and her Bday (which is in December). I get the odd years and he gets the even ones. 

He is responsible to arrange child care while they are with him. That is part of being a parent and that is something that he will have to figure out and something that you have to let go. DD used to go to pre-school but now that she is older, she goes to camp in the summer and for her winter break, the ex works from home and takes time off while she is there. She is old enough now to entertain herself while he is working. Actually when you ask her, what was her favourite thing about her visit, she says when her dad had his lunch break and sat down to play Barbies with her. 

I have just written a full novel about this. Truth be told, the ex has an amazing relationship with DD and is always in touch with her. Most often than not, people just think that out of sight, out of mind and don't exercise visitation to avoid the hassle. How involved is he now?

Thank you for your reply. I am glad to see that this can work out well. They will get about 10 weeks total off during the summer, one week at christmas and one week for spring break. The fact that they have all this free time, doesn't mean that he should get them. You can propose something that you feel comfortable with. My concern is that he isn't thinking about this realistically. I do not make enough money each month to support myself and the kids and although he does make enough now he is taking a huge paycut and will be making less than I am when he takes this job. He will need to pay CS anyway to help support his children. I think the not having enough money, it's something that you still have to navigate even if he doesn't leave the country. I have been in that same spot and it is really hard. I remember going through several months after having DD where after paying rent, I barely had any money for food. Luckily, DD was breastfed. Make a budget and look for some opinions on what you can do. I am really sorry you are going through that and I hope things get better for you. It's hard as shit . 

We've been separated since November but he had his first solo weekend with them last weekend. He ended up bringing them back early because they were giving him a hard time. They have never been alone with him for longer than a day. I know I am letting my fears cloud my ability to rationalize this. He is absolutely against using any lawyers for the divorce. I think that when some parents think they have an option, then they will take the easy way out. If he takes them, he will have no other option than keep them and get used to them. I also think kids might not behave the same as they do with you as they are not as familiar to being with him. 

You not only need a lawyer, you need a lawyer that has worked in international custody cases. Look around and see who offers a free consultation and then take it from there. This is something where whatever money you spend is so so so much worth it. Of course he doesn't want to use a lawyer, it's easier to screw you up that way. The fact that HE doesn't want a lawyer is his business but you do need one that works for you and what you want. I know how hard it is but even if you have to put it on a credit card, I would do it. Since I was out of the country, my appeal lawyer requested a hefty retainer (15K) which I didn't have. I got a loan with pretty hefty interest rates. I got a better rate after a while but it took me years to pay it. Exchange rates killed me and for my country that was a HUGE amount of money. I moved back with my parents so that most of my salary went to pay the loan. That set me back years and Im just now saving money to be able to buy my own place but I would not have it other way. 

Quite frankly, if he acts that way now that he has them close, I would anticipate that he would not make as much as an effort to have a relationship while he is away. Maintaining a good long distance relationship with kids is hard work. It has worked in our case because the ex is very involved and is always available to talk to DD about anything. They play barbies on webcam and he even watches the same movies she does so that they have topics of converstaion. 

Sorry for the lots of bolding.